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Thread: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

  1. #51
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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    what do you think Czechs, Poles , etc . think about your stalinist propaganda? , and why they have destroyed 99% of all sights of stalinist - Asiatic - totalitarian occupation already?



    Poland Prepares to Demolish Remaining Soviet Monuments to WWII Liberation - Sputnik International
    “Stalinist propaganda”. No, the fact that the Nazis were fully planning on slaughtering the people’s of Eastern Europe is not “propaganda” in any way, shape or form.....and the Poles especially know it.


    Soviet Military Cemetery, Warsaw - Wikipedia

    “Pamięci żołnierzy Armii Radzieckiej poległych o Wyzwolenie Polski spod Okupacji Niemieckiej w Latach 1944-1945." (Polish)
    "To the memory of the Soviet Army soldiers who fell while liberating Poland from German occupation in the years 1944-1945."

    Oh look, more blatant racism. No wonder Nazi collaborators are so popular.

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    what do you think Czechs, Poles , etc . think about your stalinist propaganda? , and why they have destroyed 99% of all sights of stalinist - Asiatic - totalitarian occupation already?



    Poland Prepares to Demolish Remaining Soviet Monuments to WWII Liberation - Sputnik International
    Lithuania asks partisans to ‘justify’ their actions

    Lithuania and Nazis: The country wants to forget its collaborationist past by accusing Jewish partisans of war crimes.

    “These days, Arad, and others like him, are no longer lauded for their wartime efforts on behalf of Lithuania. In a new party line, institutions of the contemporary Lithuanian government now portray Nazi-aligned nationalists as anti-Soviet heroes and anti-Nazi partisans—in particular the Jewish ones—as traitors.”

    “In an of inversion of Denmark, the nation where massive local resistance to the Nazi occupiers saved the lives of most Danish Jews, in Lithuania, zealous local collaboration ensured near-complete extermination. One of the only ways for a Jew to survive the Holocaust in Lithuania—the deadliest place on a deadly continent—was the way Yitzhak Arad did: as a partisan fighting the Nazis and their collaborators in the forests.”

    “Most Lithuanian Jews were shot near their hometowns. And, according to Lithuanian historian Alfonas Eidintas, the majority of them were shot by other Lithuanians, not by Germans. In Lithuania, the murderers and the murdered were sometimes even neighbors—your dentist, your customer, your daughter’s middle school crush. This lack of anonymity was a survivor’s nightmare, but a prosecutor’s dream.

    One veteran Jewish partisan, Joseph Melamed, had begun compiling a list of names of collaborators from his fellow survivors in 1944. He had been born in Kaunas, Lithuania’s second largest city, and remembers the vigilante killing squads that swept through the streets when the Red Army fell back in the face of the Nazi attack. “The Germans were not there; the Lithuanians did it themselves,” said Melamed when we spoke in Tel Aviv (by phone; the elderly war veteran had just been admitted to a local hospital). “I saw them carrying off Jews and Lithuanians standing on the sidewalks were giving them ovations, shouting ‘Bravo! Bravo!’ ””

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    what do you think Czechs, Poles , etc . think about your stalinist propaganda? , and why they have destroyed 99% of all sights of stalinist - Asiatic - totalitarian occupation already?



    Poland Prepares to Demolish Remaining Soviet Monuments to WWII Liberation - Sputnik International
    “In one of its very first independent actions, before even fully breaking free of Moscow, Lithuania’s parliament formally exonerated several Lithuanian nationalists who had collaborated in the Holocaust and had been convicted by Soviet military courts after the war. The right-wing paramilitaries who had carried out the mass murder of Lithuania’s Jews were now hailed as national heroes on account of their anti-Soviet bona fides. Among many now-glorified leaders was Jonas Noreika, a paramilitary fighter who was executed for his anti-Soviet activities in 1947. According to a Holocaust survivor’s account published in the German newsmagazine Der Spiegel, Noreika led the extermination of the Jews in the Lithuanian city of Plunge. Since independence, however, Lithuania’s prosecutor general has restricted access to Noreika’s wartime files. Meanwhile, the state body charged with investigating and memorializing Nazi- and Soviet-era atrocities, the Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania, turned the former guerrilla leader into a national hero. In 1997, Noreika was posthumously awarded one of the state’s highest honors, the Order of the Cross of Vytis, First Degree; in 2010, a primary school was named after him”

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Poland plans to tear down hundreds of Soviet memorials

    Since 1989, Poles have removed hundreds of memorials erected after World War II ...around 200 memorials still remain. Now, the government wants them gone.
    Karl Marx : "The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Lithuania’s parliament formally
    a classical example of stalinist -commie Whataboutism

    "Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda."

    Karl Marx : "The bloody mire of Mongolian slavery, not the rude glory of the Norman epoch, forms the cradle of Muscovy, and modern "Russia" is but a metamorphosis of Muscovy."

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    a classical example of stalinist -commie Whataboutism

    "Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda."

    Nope, it is simple fact.

    You can’t celebrate Nazi collaborators(while going after Jewish partisans, no less) and then cry about how awful the other guy is. It is rank hypocrisy.

    And crying “Stalinist propaganda” when confronted with the facts is just lame.

    As I just documented, however, there appears to be a serious issue in Lithuania when it comes to viewing the Second World War.

    The Nazis and their collaborators seem to be viewed as heroes, fighting against the Soviets, who are viewed as the “real villains”.

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Litwin View Post
    a classical example of stalinist -commie Whataboutism

    "Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda."


    When you try to deny that being liberated from Nazi oppression is a, well, liberation, and start making pathetic excuses in defending them—- for example, attempting to handwave away Generalplan Ost—-one begins to ask themself “well, why might that be”.

    The answer doesn’t look very flattering for you.

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerace117 View Post
    ~................. As I just documented, however, there appears to be a serious issue in Lithuania when it comes to viewing the Second World War.

    The Nazis and their collaborators seem to be viewed as heroes, fighting against the Soviets, who are viewed as the “real villains”.
    Well, let me put it this way: Everything is relative.

    In this particular example by the timeline of Russia having been in Lithuania well before the German Nazis appeared and immediately behaving like murderous thugs. As early as the late 1700s.

    Hatred of Russia has fogged perceptions ever since and Stalin's "re-take" of 1940 (ending Lithuanian independence) didn't do much for improvement.

    Takes nothing though from Lithuania's collaboration with the German thugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoint View Post
    ~......................... I fully expect you to disappear ............~

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    Re: Moscow is in shock, Prague to remove statue of Soviet marshal who led Red Army forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post
    Well, let me put it this way: Everything is relative.

    In this particular example by the timeline of Russia having been in Lithuania well before the German Nazis appeared and immediately behaving like murderous thugs. As early as the late 1700s.

    Hatred of Russia has fogged perceptions ever since and Stalin's "re-take" of 1940 (ending Lithuanian independence) didn't do much for improvement.

    Takes nothing though from Lithuania's collaboration with the German thugs.
    It’d be one thing have being celebrating these guys years ago, but it’s absolutely inexcusable for people like Jonas Noreika, who absolutely played an enthusiastic role in the slaughter of Lithuania’s Jews, to be held up as heroes.

    One can hate Russia all they want; one can hate Stalin all they want. I do see your point. But the Nazis were far, far worse.

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