• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
94,329
Reaction score
82,720
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

MPs ready for legal fight over possible delay to UK's exit from EU with PM Johnson non-committal over new Brexit bill.

Boris-Johnson-4-620x330.jpg

Johnson has pledged to take UK out of EU by October 31, with or without a divorce deal.

9/8/19
British legislators are preparing legal action in case Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to defy legislation compelling him to seek a further delay to Brexit, main opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn has said. The BBC reported on Saturday that legislators, including MPs expelled this week from Johnson's ruling Conservative Party for backing the cross-party bill, had lined up a legal team and were willing to go to court to enforce the legislation if necessary. The bill will force Johnson to ask the European Union to postpone Brexit by October 19 unless parliament has signed off on a withdrawal deal or a no-deal exit. The UK is currently scheduled to depart the bloc on October 31, a deadline Johnson has repeatedly promised to stick to whether a divorce deal is in place or not. Corbyn said Labour was not, as a party, taking legal action but was aware of the legislators' manoeuvres over the issue. "We need a clear statement from the prime minister that he is going to abide by that act of parliament," Corbyn told the BBC. The legislation was passed by both chambers of parliament this week, with Queen Elizabeth II expected to sign it into law on Monday.

Johnson said this week he would "rather be dead in a ditch" than ask for a "pointless delay" to Brexit, raising fears among opponents he may attempt to ignore the legislation. On Saturday, the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper reported he was prepared to defy parliament's instruction to request an extension on Brexit if he failed to agree on a new deal with the bloc. The newspaper quoted the prime minister as saying he was only bound "in theory" by the new legislation. A former UK director of public prosecutions (DPP) added that Johnson could face prison if he refuses to delay Brexit in the face of court action. "In conventional cases... individuals who are in contempt of court and fail to purge their contempt are liable to be committed to prison," Ken MacDonald, who served as DPP from 2003 to 2008 and now sits in the UK's upper chamber House of Lords, told Sky News.
Click to expand...

This is getting into Brit legal weeds that are too thick for this Yank.

Related: Amber Rudd quits cabinet blaming Brexit inaction
 
Rogue Valley said:
British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

MPs ready for legal fight over possible delay to UK's exit from EU with PM Johnson non-committal over new Brexit bill.

Boris-Johnson-4-620x330.jpg

Johnson has pledged to take UK out of EU by October 31, with or without a divorce deal.



This is getting into Brit legal weeds that are too thick for this Yank.

Related: Amber Rudd quits cabinet blaming Brexit inaction
Click to expand...



'...the prime minister as saying he was only bound "in theory" by the new legislation.'

How Trumpian. Boris, the British Trump.
 
Rogue Valley said:
British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

MPs ready for legal fight over possible delay to UK's exit from EU with PM Johnson non-committal over new Brexit bill.


Johnson has pledged to take UK out of EU by October 31, with or without a divorce deal.



This is getting into Brit legal weeds that are too thick for this Yank.

Related: Amber Rudd quits cabinet blaming Brexit inaction
Click to expand...

I've been trying to work my way through all this stuff and the best I can come up with is -

1. The UK voted to leave the EU. There really wasn't a plan for HOW to do that but that's now the goal.

2. May tried all kinds of ways to come up with a reasonable plan for how to go about leaving and got shot down on all of them. Neither her party nor any of the opposition parties can agree on what day of the week it is, much less how to effectively leave the EU.

3. Johnson, who everyone knew was a "no deal" kind of guy, became head of the Conservative party and thus PM. Now half of his party doesn't like the fact that he's "no deal"

4. In theory there could be another referendum vote but if that one also comes up "leave" it's just going to add to the mess.

5. Without regard to party the decision in Parliament now is "come up with a plan" or "leave without a plan". Option A doesn't seem to be viable and option B doesn't seem to be desirable. Therefore Parliament has chosen Option C which is "drag this **** out forever if necessary because that way we never have to leave, we never have to vote on whether to leave again and we will always have something other than the weather to complain about".
 
Lutherf said:
I've been trying to work my way through all this stuff and the best I can come up with is -

1. The UK voted to leave the EU. There really wasn't a plan for HOW to do that but that's now the goal.

2. May tried all kinds of ways to come up with a reasonable plan for how to go about leaving and got shot down on all of them. Neither her party nor any of the opposition parties can agree on what day of the week it is, much less how to effectively leave the EU.

3. Johnson, who everyone knew was a "no deal" kind of guy, became head of the Conservative party and thus PM. Now half of his party doesn't like the fact that he's "no deal"

4. In theory there could be another referendum vote but if that one also comes up "leave" it's just going to add to the mess.

5. Without regard to party the decision in Parliament now is "come up with a plan" or "leave without a plan". Option A doesn't seem to be viable and option B doesn't seem to be desirable. Therefore Parliament has chosen Option C which is "drag this **** out forever if necessary because that way we never have to leave, we never have to vote on whether to leave again and we will always have something other than the weather to complain about".
Click to expand...

The interesting thing here is that ever since the people chose to leave the EU the elected officials have done nothing but try and delay it, with the ultimate goal of just making sure it doesn't happen at all. That's what all the "deals" have been about. The only property "deal" here is no deal. Anything beyond that will tie them to regulations and conditions by the EU without the UK having a vote or say in the EU parliament.

All these "deals" are nothing but a sham.
 
Fishking said:
The interesting thing here is that ever since the people chose to leave the EU the elected officials have done nothing but try and delay it, with the ultimate goal of just making sure it doesn't happen at all. That's what all the "deals" have been about. The only property "deal" here is no deal. Anything beyond that will tie them to regulations and conditions by the EU without the UK having a vote or say in the EU parliament.

All these "deals" are nothing but a sham.
Click to expand...


Not just the EU officials, but EVERY SINGLE UKMP who hasn't been happy with something or other during this whole wreckless process.

Whatever the outcome, it will take literally a DECADE for UK politics to bounce back from this, if not longer.
 
Snazzy said:
Not just the EU officials, but EVERY SINGLE UKMP who hasn't been happy with something or other during this whole wreckless process.

Whatever the outcome, it will take literally a DECADE for UK politics to bounce back from this, if not longer.
Click to expand...

You are already seeing this, the parties are re-aligning along a Brexit axis.
 
Fishking said:
The interesting thing here is that ever since the people chose to leave the EU the elected officials have done nothing but try and delay it, with the ultimate goal of just making sure it doesn't happen at all. That's what all the "deals" have been about. The only property "deal" here is no deal. Anything beyond that will tie them to regulations and conditions by the EU without the UK having a vote or say in the EU parliament.

All these "deals" are nothing but a sham.
Click to expand...

Well considering there are many places in the US that do not get a vote in Congress, it is rather hypocritical for an American to be saying that. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein as part of the EEA have to abide by most of the EU's rules and pay dues but they don't get a say in EU Parliament either but they see the arrangement as very beneficial. Switzerland does as well. There needs to be a deal of some kind, because Northern Ireland exists and the UK will still have to do business with the EU and its member states.
 
Last edited:
Fishking said:
The interesting thing here is that ever since the people chose to leave the EU the elected officials have done nothing but try and delay it, with the ultimate goal of just making sure it doesn't happen at all. That's what all the "deals" have been about. The only property "deal" here is no deal. Anything beyond that will tie them to regulations and conditions by the EU without the UK having a vote or say in the EU parliament.

All these "deals" are nothing but a sham.
Click to expand...

No they are not. The problem is the anti-EU lot who stand to make billions on a chaotic no deal Brexit. They have done everything in their power to push for such an outcome and that is the problem.

A May deal without a backstop would have been accepted by both sides, provided that NI would remain in the customs union.. basically putting the economic border in the Irish Sea. It is the pragmatic and logical thing to do. BUT, in NI are a bunch of religious zealots called the DUP. They hate the peace treaty that has be in place for decades and they saw an opportunity to restart the Northern Irish conflict. They made a satans pact with the EPG in the Tory party to make sure that there would be a hard Brexit.
 
Snazzy said:
Not just the EU officials, but EVERY SINGLE UKMP who hasn't been happy with something or other during this whole wreckless process.

Whatever the outcome, it will take literally a DECADE for UK politics to bounce back from this, if not longer.
Click to expand...

Not if they can get the no-deal Brexit.
 
Carjosse said:
Well considering there are many places in the US that do not get a vote in Congress, it is rather hypocritical for an American to be saying that. Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein as part of the EEA have to abide by most of the EU's rules and pay dues but they don't get a say in EU Parliament either but they see the arrangement as very beneficial. Switzerland does as well. There needs to be a deal of some kind, because Northern Ireland exists and the UK will still have to do business with the EU and its member states.
Click to expand...

No...there doesn't need to be any deal. That's simply a lie. The US doesn't have a deal, yet still manage. Any deal beyond no-deal will be to the UK's detriment.
 
bluesmoke said:
'...the prime minister as saying he was only bound "in theory" by the new legislation.'

How Trumpian. Boris, the British Trump.
Click to expand...

It was Germany and Italy that first went "south" in teh 30's.

Looks like it's the Britts and us this time. :(
 
Never takes long for the one or other "cousin" to come along, to regale us with opinions in place of fact and to demonstrate, in every other aspect, his or her extreme ignorance altogether.

With the "assessment" of any deal that isn't no-deal as being a detrimental to the UK serving as ample demonstration of such ignorance.

Fortunately a "minority cousin", noisy but irrelevant in anything offered.

Most "cousins" entering here not failing into that category.
 
Last edited:
Lutherf said:
I've been trying to work my way through all this stuff and the best I can come up with is -

1. The UK voted to leave the EU. There really wasn't a plan for HOW to do that but that's now the goal.

2. May tried all kinds of ways to come up with a reasonable plan for how to go about leaving and got shot down on all of them. Neither her party nor any of the opposition parties can agree on what day of the week it is, much less how to effectively leave the EU.

3. Johnson, who everyone knew was a "no deal" kind of guy, became head of the Conservative party and thus PM. Now half of his party doesn't like the fact that he's "no deal"

4. In theory there could be another referendum vote but if that one also comes up "leave" it's just going to add to the mess.

5. Without regard to party the decision in Parliament now is "come up with a plan" or "leave without a plan". Option A doesn't seem to be viable and option B doesn't seem to be desirable. Therefore Parliament has chosen Option C which is "drag this **** out forever if necessary because that way we never have to leave, we never have to vote on whether to leave again and we will always have something other than the weather to complain about".
Click to expand...
agreed on all points except for the second half of point 6.

Which, however doesn't merit much debate in view of point 7., that I will raise as follows:

7. With this current bunch of crooks in No. 10 (certainly as long as they stay there and with little chance of removal in even the medium term), the UK can consign itself to "no-deal".

If not by Oct-31, then later.

The EU won't bend on the backstop and neither will the ERG "spartans". So, coming apart with the greatest possible amount of unpleasantness between the two is only a matter of time.
 
Fishking said:
No...there doesn't need to be any deal. That's simply a lie. The US doesn't have a deal, yet still manage. Any deal beyond no-deal will be to the UK's detriment.
Click to expand...

The last time I checked the US does not have a land border with the Republic of Ireland or the Good Friday agreement. Also the US is on the other side of Atlantic and does not heavily rely on a constant uninterrupted trade flow of goods and people with the European continent.
 
Carjosse said:
The last time I checked the US does not have a land border with the Republic of Ireland or the Good Friday agreement. Also the US is on the other side of Atlantic and does not heavily rely on a constant uninterrupted trade flow of goods and people with the European continent.
Click to expand...

It'll be OK....we ship stuff all over the world these days. I mean...China's products seems to be able to make out around the entire globe, to include the Pacific, which is significantly larger than the Atlantic. So far as Ireland...they'll just have to put some kind of gate up but the biggest part of the problem will be basically solved as freedom of movement doesn't work as well via ship as it does through the chunnel.
 
Fishking said:
It'll be OK....we ship stuff all over the world these days. I mean...China's products seems to be able to make out around the entire globe, to include the Pacific, which is significantly larger than the Atlantic. So far as Ireland...they'll just have to put some kind of gate up but the biggest part of the problem will be basically solved as freedom of movement doesn't work as well via ship as it does through the chunnel.
Click to expand...

So in other words you admit you have no idea what the situation is with the UK and it's relationship with Europe or the situation with Ireland. Do you even know what the Good Friday agreement or the backstop is?

You don't think any of these are an issue:
-Money, particularly the division of assets and liabilities, and payment of any debt outstanding
-Citizens rights, both of UK citizens in EU countries and vice-versa
-Border arrangements and customs, particularly along the border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland
-The law, and the mechanisms for resolving disputes, currently vested with the European Court of Justice

The fact that no deal will cause massive disruptions to the economy and business including things like shortages of food and drugs is not somsthing that should be considered?
 
Fishking said:
It'll be OK....we ship stuff all over the world these days. I mean...China's products seems to be able to make out around the entire globe, to include the Pacific, which is significantly larger than the Atlantic. So far as Ireland...they'll just have to put some kind of gate up but the biggest part of the problem will be basically solved as freedom of movement doesn't work as well via ship as it does through the chunnel.
Click to expand...

The UK courts do not have jurisdiction over the EU. They do not have to consent to an extension in which case Brexit happens. If BJ resubmits May's ast plan at the 11th hour and it gets voted down, he will hvae done all he could do to stop a no deal Brexit.
 
Carjosse said:
So in other words you admit you have no idea what the situation is with the UK and it's relationship with Europe or the situation with Ireland. Do you even know what the Good Friday agreement or the backstop is?

You don't think any of these are an issue:
-Money, particularly the division of assets and liabilities, and payment of any debt outstanding
-Citizens rights, both of UK citizens in EU countries and vice-versa
-Border arrangements and customs, particularly along the border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland
-The law, and the mechanisms for resolving disputes, currently vested with the European Court of Justice

The fact that no deal will cause massive disruptions to the economy and business including things like shortages of food and drugs is not somsthing that should be considered?
Click to expand...

1. If you're referring to the debt supposedly owed to the EU, that's imaginary.
2,3. Rights will be just fine. Just have to provide some documentation to cross the border. If they don't like it it is their fault for sticking with the EU and they can end that requirement at anytime by leaving it. The Schengen Agreement is an utter nightmare.
4. If it's something that involves the EU it doesn't apply to the UK. That's kinda what Brexit means.
 
I can always tell the remainers when they say "no deal Brexit" when it should just be called a "clean break".
 
Fishking said:
1. If you're referring to the debt supposedly owed to the EU, that's imaginary.
2,3. Rights will be just fine. Just have to provide some documentation to cross the border. If they don't like it it is their fault for sticking with the EU and they can end that requirement at anytime by leaving it. The Schengen Agreement is an utter nightmare.
4. If it's something that involves the EU it doesn't apply to the UK. That's kinda what Brexit means.
Click to expand...

1. The debt is not imaginary it is commitments that the UK made to the EU, and if it is not paid the UK can say goodbye to any trade deal it wants with the EU.
2. So all those nurses, doctors, programmers, bankers; all those taxpayers and valuable citizens can all just go home then?
3. So no you know nothing about the UK's situation then. There cannot be a hard border with Ireland, it violates the Good Friday Agreement which if violated could very easily lead to the return of violence to Northern Ireland and/or reunification with Northern Ireland leaving the UK. Not to mention the massive disruption to commerce and the movement of people. There are a lot of people who live on one side of the border and work on the other as well.
4. Do you not think that there should be a dispute mechanism especially where the UK jurisdiction overlaps with the EU?
 
Chagos said:
Never takes long for the one or other "cousin" to come along, to regale us with opinions in place of fact and to demonstrate, in every other aspect, his or her extreme ignorance altogether.
Click to expand...

Embarrassing as hell. Why some people have an insatiable compunction to publicly display their ignorance of a topic is beyond me.

I suppose it's something along the lines of Trumps "stable genius" pish posh.
 
Not that any official declaration was by now needed (status having been confirmed continuously since BoJo went into No. 10), but today's parliamentary debate provides further confirmation that Britain is officially a banana republic. With the primary bananas being the Tories and their chief honcho, he who's been screeching accusations of cowardice left, right and center, appearing to have scuttled into a cave and not even showing up.

But even where I hold him to be utterly despicable. I sure hope he's not "lying dead in a ditch".
 
Well, now we have it loud and clear, with Parliament's act (deal by 31-Oct or ask for extension) having passed the Lords and (been) signed by the Queen, the walking caricature of a PM has clearly stated that he will defy it.

In other words break what is now a law.
 
Carjosse said:
1. The debt is not imaginary it is commitments that the UK made to the EU, and if it is not paid the UK can say goodbye to any trade deal it wants with the EU.
2. So all those nurses, doctors, programmers, bankers; all those taxpayers and valuable citizens can all just go home then?
3. So no you know nothing about the UK's situation then. There cannot be a hard border with Ireland, it violates the Good Friday Agreement which if violated could very easily lead to the return of violence to Northern Ireland and/or reunification with Northern Ireland leaving the UK. Not to mention the massive disruption to commerce and the movement of people. There are a lot of people who live on one side of the border and work on the other as well.
4. Do you not think that there should be a dispute mechanism especially where the UK jurisdiction overlaps with the EU?
Click to expand...

1. They don't need to do anything special with trade agreements. There is the World Trade Organization that will make sure commerce flows relatively smoothly.
2. They can all do w/e they want so long as they show proper documentation. The point is to make sure that the EU's past and present ****ty immigration policies don't cause problems.
3. Yeah?....if something so simple as having a checkpoint for documentation causing violence to return the UK has a much bigger problem and they freaking suck as civilized people...."if".
4. The EU regulations can cover the tiny smidge of land that is still part of the EU and they can see what it's like to be handicapped by idiotic EU regulations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom