Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 40 of 40

Thread: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

  1. #31
    Guru
    Evilroddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,923

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristaeus View Post
    Not true. Government has to obey the law and abide by judges decisions. Johnson could go to jail if he ignores this law.
    There is no clear distinction between the political and the legal apparatus at the highest levels under the UK/British constitution.

    Actually it is true. The Privy Council is the highest court in the land and it is a political body made up of some of the PM's Cabinet plus other appointees from the House of Lords and the Civil service. Although on paper it is controlled by the sovereign in fact the ruling party controls its decisions. The Parliament is also a court but rarely exercises that prerogative. So PM Johnson can simply call the Privy Council which he still controls and have it overturn any ruling a lower court makes regarding Brexit and his role in the Brexit process. So long as he remains PM he has the power to defy the will of Parliament legally.

    Could Johnson go to jail? Yes, but that would be a political determination rather than a legal one.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Last edited by Evilroddy; 09-10-19 at 08:01 AM.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.”
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

  2. #32
    Sage
    Chagos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    in expatria
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    21,641

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    ~..................... The Privy Council is the highest court in the land ...................~
    Nope.

    And defying a (UK) law passed by parliament and signed off by the Queen (as all are) is a criminal act, committed in the UK.

    The highest court of appeal wrt that would be the Supreme Court.

    For some lengthy and probably tedious reading of what's what

    Judicial precedent: Supreme Court clarifies the status of Privy Council decisions - Publications - Allen & Overy
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoint View Post
    ~......................... I fully expect you to disappear ............~

  3. #33
    Sage
    Fishking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    18,329

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    1. The UK wants a trade deal with the EU, even Boris does. The UK will have to continue to have a large part of its trade with the EU. A trade deal would be a crucial part of that. But if they refuse to pay the EU will never agree to one.
    2. What EU immigration policies? The EU only controls immigration where it concerns EU citizens, each member state maintains its own immigration system. EU migrants are needed in many industries in the UK, especially healthcare and finance.
    3. Have you never heard of The Troubles or the IRA? The Good Friday Agreement which a hard border violates is a peace agreement.
    4. Even the US has dispute mechanisms with its neighbours and it is not nearly as integrated with Canada or Mexico.
    1. There doesn't need to be any kind of special trade agreement for trade to happen quite normally. In fact, any trade agreement the EU would accept would most likely be to the detriment of the UK.
    2. The combination of being basically open borders and Schengen agreement.
    3. Yeah...heard of it and, again, if they resort back to that type of dynamic for something so minute, then anyone involved suck as people.
    4. The U.S. and Canada remain almost completely autonomous while still conducting trade. That proves the UK doesn't need some kind of special deal. If the U.S. can do it, then so can anyone else. You don't see the U.S. making up some kind of BS regulations/laws that Mexico has to follow, do you? No weird limits on fishing and no restrictions on tea kettles or anything like that.

    Ya'll act like no commerce ever happened before the EU became a thing yet, shockingly, it happens all over the world.
    “There are no self-proclaimed villains, only regiments of self-proclaimed saints. Victorious historians rule where good or evil lies.” ― Glen Cook, Chronicles of the Black Company

  4. #34
    Sage
    Fishking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    18,329

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Fishking:

    That made me giggle. If you study the constitutional history of the British Isles one thing becomes clear. Almost all British constitutional history has been geared towards preventing the full expression of the democratic will of the people and when statutes and courts could not hold back democratic tides, brute force was used. Power rests in the hands of the few in Britain and not in the hopes of the many. The U.K. is not the America you think you live in. Incidentally, nor is America as democratic as you seem to imagine. But that's a debate for another thread.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    For sure...but my statement still stands valid. Public referendum is the purest form of democracy, and that was how Brexit went down. So far as the U.S...we aren't a democracy, and never were intended to be.
    “There are no self-proclaimed villains, only regiments of self-proclaimed saints. Victorious historians rule where good or evil lies.” ― Glen Cook, Chronicles of the Black Company

  5. #35
    Guru
    Evilroddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,923

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post
    Nope.

    And defying a (UK) law passed by parliament and signed off by the Queen (as all are) is a criminal act, committed in the UK.

    The highest court of appeal wrt that would be the Supreme Court.

    For some lengthy and probably tedious reading of what's what

    Judicial precedent: Supreme Court clarifies the status of Privy Council decisions - Publications - Allen & Overy
    Chagos:

    Wow! There was a judicial coup in the UK in 2016 and I was completely unaware of it? Well, while the waters are now clouded, the position I laid out above is no longer solid, so I stand corrected. You would think the Brits would have had something to say about ending centuries of absolute legal authority by the Privy Council and the more modern JCPC, but there you go! Thank you for setting me straight on this. I will have to do more reading as the cited legal description you offered left a few dimensions of this in a grey zone but the absolute declaration that the JCPC is not a legal court inside the UK anymore is astounding. I wonder why no one with deep pockets and vested interests has challenged this since that very monumental decision?

    On the other hand it's good news for the UK legal system as any kind of Star Chamber court or tribunal is repugnant to me. So bravo to the British legal system for cleaning up the messy bits of a somewhat tattered unwritten constitution. If this decision stands it is good news.

    I like learning something new!

    Cheers and thanks again.
    Evilroddy.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.”
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

  6. #36
    Guru
    Evilroddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,923

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishking View Post
    For sure...but my statement still stands valid. Public referendum is the purest form of democracy, and that was how Brexit went down. So far as the U.S...we aren't a democracy, and never were intended to be.
    Fishking:

    Apparently not for sure as can be seen by Chagos's excellent post #32. Things changed radically in 2016 and I was totally unaware of those changes. So the powers and jurisdiction of the Justice Committee of the Privy Council (JCPC) have been severely diminished in the last three years and thus my earlier argument is certainly not solid anymore and may be outright wrong. I stand corrected.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.”
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

  7. #37
    Sit Nomine Digna
    Carjosse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    13,923

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishking View Post
    1. There doesn't need to be any kind of special trade agreement for trade to happen quite normally. In fact, any trade agreement the EU would accept would most likely be to the detriment of the UK.
    2. The combination of being basically open borders and Schengen agreement.
    3. Yeah...heard of it and, again, if they resort back to that type of dynamic for something so minute, then anyone involved suck as people.
    4. The U.S. and Canada remain almost completely autonomous while still conducting trade. That proves the UK doesn't need some kind of special deal. If the U.S. can do it, then so can anyone else. You don't see the U.S. making up some kind of BS regulations/laws that Mexico has to follow, do you? No weird limits on fishing and no restrictions on tea kettles or anything like that.

    Ya'll act like no commerce ever happened before the EU became a thing yet, shockingly, it happens all over the world.
    1. The UK wants a trade deal, even hardcore Brexiteers like Boris do.
    2. The UK was never part of those to begin with, it had an exemption because the UK is an island.
    3. It is not soemthing you can just gloss over, it plays a fundamental role in how everything works in Northern Ireland.
    4. What do you think NAFTA/USMCA/CUSMA does?
    Days Since Last Trump Twitter Tantrum: 0

  8. #38
    Sage
    Fishking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    18,329

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    1. The UK wants a trade deal, even hardcore Brexiteers like Boris do.
    2. The UK was never part of those to begin with, it had an exemption because the UK is an island.
    3. It is not soemthing you can just gloss over, it plays a fundamental role in how everything works in Northern Ireland.
    4. What do you think NAFTA/USMCA/CUSMA does?
    1. Some in the UK want a trade deal. Not all do. Farage wants a clean break Brexit.
    2. It still effected them and there was constant pressure on them to change and, for a while, a crisis at the chunnel entrance.
    3. It's not being glossed over. I'm saying that if people resort to violence because they want to be pissed over having to show some ID due to their short-sighted nature of wanting to stay in the EU then they are ****ty human beings and don't deserve consideration.
    4. Agreements between autonomous countries
    “There are no self-proclaimed villains, only regiments of self-proclaimed saints. Victorious historians rule where good or evil lies.” ― Glen Cook, Chronicles of the Black Company

  9. #39
    Guru

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    3,021

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    There is no clear distinction between the political and the legal apparatus at the highest levels under the UK/British constitution.

    Actually it is true. The Privy Council is the highest court in the land and it is a political body made up of some of the PM's Cabinet plus other appointees from the House of Lords and the Civil service. Although on paper it is controlled by the sovereign in fact the ruling party controls its decisions. The Parliament is also a court but rarely exercises that prerogative. So PM Johnson can simply call the Privy Council which he still controls and have it overturn any ruling a lower court makes regarding Brexit and his role in the Brexit process. So long as he remains PM he has the power to defy the will of Parliament legally.

    Could Johnson go to jail? Yes, but that would be a political determination rather than a legal one.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    There so many incorrect statements in this post.

  10. #40
    Guru
    Evilroddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,923

    Re: British MPs prepare court action to enforce Brexit delay

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristaeus View Post
    There so many incorrect statements in this post.
    Aristaeus:

    See post #35 for the correction. The post was correct Up to 2016 but has been called into serious question by a UK Supreme Court ruling in that year. I was not aware of the courts 2016 decision but Chagos set me straight. Other than that, my post was accurate as far as I can tell. If you think there are errors be specific in your correction.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    "At the heart of quantum mechanics is a rule that sometimes governs politicians or CEOs - as long as no one is watching, anything goes.”
    ― Lawrence M. Krauss

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •