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Boris Johnson's Brexit backstop bid rejected by EU leaders

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Boris Johnson's Brexit backstop bid rejected by EU leaders

Britain's new prime ministers wrote to European leaders suggesting Irish backstop position be removed from Brexit deal.

bpanews_977d817a-e27a-432d-a761-0ece87d0de11_1


8/20/19
The European Union has rebuffed United Kingdom Prime Minister Boris Johnson's demand that it reopen a divorce deal about Britain's exit from the bloc, or Brexit, saying the country had failed to propose any realistic alternative to an agreed insurance policy for the Irish border. After more than three years of Brexit crisis, the UK is heading towards a showdown with the EU as Johnson has vowed to leave the bloc on October 31 without a deal unless it agrees to renegotiate the divorce terms. In his opening bid to the EU ahead of meetings with French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Johnson wrote a four-page letter to European Council President Donald Tusk asking to axe the Irish border "backstop". Johnson proposed that the backstop - part of the withdrawal agreement his predecessor, Theresa May, agreed last year - be replaced with a "commitment" to invent and implement an as-yet-unknown solution in an as-yet-undefined transition period as part of a post-Brexit relationship.

"Those against the backstop and not proposing realistic alternatives in fact support re-establishing a border [between the Republic of Ireland, part of the EU, and Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK]. Even if they do not admit it," Tusk wrote on Twitter. A note seen by Reuters news agency setting out the agreed joint position of the 27 EU states staying on after Brexit said the bloc regretted Johnson's bid to scrap a "necessary, legally operative solution" in favour of a "commitment to try to find a solution". Jo Swinson, leader of the opposition Liberal Democrats, tweeted: "Boris is making demands he knows the EU will turn down so he can blame them for no-deal Brexit. He's set his sights on crashing us out without a deal, and we have to stop him." Jo Swinson, leader of the opposition Liberal Democrats, tweeted: "Boris is making demands he knows the EU will turn down so he can blame them for no-deal Brexit. He's set his sights on crashing us out without a deal, and we have to stop him." A diplomat from one EU country told Reuters that Johnson's letter was "pure PR" and not meant to spur constructive talks but rather set the stage for a "blame game" with the EU. The UK does not want any border - effective or virtual - between Britain and Northern Ireland. Johnson's government is propped up by Northern Irish unionists. The backstop was aimed at squaring the circle: it would keep the UK in a customs union with the EU until a better solution was found, and keep Northern Ireland aligned to the rules of the EU's single market. In his letter, Johnson wrote that the backstop was anti-democratic and threatened the UK's sovereignty as the application of single-market rules in Northern Ireland could divide the region from the rest of the UK.
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Predictable. Johnson is attempting to scapegoat the EU for his promised Brexit crash-out on October 31, even though former British PM Theresa May and the EU agreed on a Brexit deal.

Related: E.U. slaps down Johnson’s opening gambit to renegotiate Brexit agreement
 
Rogue Valley said:
Boris Johnson's Brexit backstop bid rejected by EU leaders
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Here's his letter in full.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...M_letter_to_His_Excellency_Mr_Donald_Tusk.pdf

And tonight it appears a no-deal Brexit will cost jobs in our oil industries and make the UK reliant on Russian oil. You start to see (if you haven't before) why so many pro-Russia and pro-Putin posters here and trolls elsewhere online have been so "gung-ho" about no-deal.

The American owned refinery in Wales is likely to be shut down - oil traditionally shipped to Ireland from there will now attract a 4.7% tariff as compared to what the Irish would pay another refinery within the EU.

The current tariff on fuel imports from non-EU countries is 4.7%.However, under World Trade Organization (WTO) rules, a zero tariff rate must apply to petrol imports from all countries, opening up the UK to Russian fuel imports.
At the same time, the EU has said it will apply a tariff, under WTO rules, of 4.7% to UK exports, making the trade with, for example, Ireland "uneconomical", according to insiders.
While a flood of cheaper imports could initially mean lower fuel prices for consumers, the industry says relying on foreign suppliers will ultimately lead to higher prices.
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Some think an American trade deal may save the UK - is Trump going to subsidise oil for us so we can get it cheaper on the world market? More importantly, will the American Senate let a trade deal through that helps renege on the Good Friday Agreement???
 
Rogue Valley said:
Boris Johnson's Brexit backstop bid rejected by EU leaders

Britain's new prime ministers wrote to European leaders suggesting Irish backstop position be removed from Brexit deal.

bpanews_977d817a-e27a-432d-a761-0ece87d0de11_1




Predictable. Johnson is attempting to scapegoat the EU for his promised Brexit crash-out on October 31, even though former British PM Theresa May and the EU agreed on a Brexit deal.

Related: E.U. slaps down Johnson’s opening gambit to renegotiate Brexit agreement
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So what? May tried to get her deal passed by Parliament three times, and three times she failed. A deal that can't be ratified isn't worth the paper it's written on. Face it... the Irish Backstop is a no-go. There's no way it can pass. And why should it? The UK had the referendum and the people decided... that's democracy. Regardless about how you feel about the outcome of the vote - and if I were a Brit, I would have voted to remain - the fact of the matter is that the majority voted to leave - it's neither fair nor right to simply ignore that outcome. Trying to have to both ways and insisting on a backstop effectively neuters the decision of the British public.
 
Cordelier said:
So what? May tried to get her deal passed by Parliament three times, and three times she failed. A deal that can't be ratified isn't worth the paper it's written on.
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Where is Johnson's deal?

Oh that's right, he doesn't have one beyond a crash-out. Brilliant.
 
Cordelier said:
~ Face it... the Irish Backstop is a no-go. There's no way it can pass. And why should it? ~
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Do you know what the "Back Stop" is and why it is needed by the EU? Why do you think most Irish Americans (especially those in Congress) will also be up in arms of the Good Friday Agreement is reneged upon?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Here's his letter in full.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...M_letter_to_His_Excellency_Mr_Donald_Tusk.pdf----------~
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load of prevaricating bluff-blustering bumpf as was to be expected (and as the EU no doubt did).

Neatly ignoring that the backstop itself is designed as a means of supporting maintenance of the Good Friday agreement, rather than, as the chief liar now implies, undermining it.

Of course the issue of an open back door to the EU as a whole is a valid EU concern just as much, yet its acknowledgement of (and respect for) its Irish member state's interests in this matter is misrepresented in the usual lying manner.

If this were, say, Slovakia leaving, there'd simply be a hard border installed and be done with it all.

Eire is truly going to love how Boris shafting them will be narrated (by him of course) as being down to EU-intransigence. No doubt large parts of the North are going to be equally enthusiastic.

Outside, that is, of the DUP paleolithics who vigorously opposed the GFA anyway in its time.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Do you know what the "Back Stop" is and why it is needed by the EU? Why do you think most Irish Americans (especially those in Congress) will also be up in arms of the Good Friday Agreement is reneged upon?
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Come on... let's not overreact here. A "no deal" Brexit is hardly reneging on the Good Friday Agreement... though I agree there are diehards in both the Unionist and Republican camps will portray it as such. Let's keep this in perspective - reorganizing patterns of trade and economic relations is hardly a matter of life and death, wouldn't you agree?
 
Cordelier said:
Come on... let's not overreact here. A "no deal" Brexit is hardly reneging on the Good Friday Agreement... though I agree there are diehards in both the Unionist and Republican camps will portray it as such. Let's keep this in perspective - reorganizing patterns of trade and economic relations is hardly a matter of life and death, wouldn't you agree?
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So you don't understand what the WTO consequences of a "no deal" are.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
So you don't understand what the WTO consequences of a "no deal" are.
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nor, clearly, anything on the nature of the GFA and the effect a hard border (Eire/N.Ireland) would have on it.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
So you don't understand what the WTO consequences of a "no deal" are.
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I understand what you "think" they are... and I also understand that worst-case scenarios rarely come to pass. They're good for scaring kids, though. Kids don't know any better.

There's scope for agreement there if both sides are willing. Obviously a Customs Union isn't in the picture... but I'm sure a Free-Trade Agreement between the UK and EU could be negotiated consistent with WTO rules on regional trade agreements. Canada negotiated a Free Trade with the EU... so why not the UK?
 
Rogue Valley said:
Where is Johnson's deal?

Oh that's right, he doesn't have one beyond a crash-out. Brilliant.
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I don't know that a comprehensive deal is possible with the make-up of Parliament as it now stands.... and I've been looking at it from all sides. I thought Letwin was on the right track with the indicative votes... but there's not really anything you can cobble together out of those either. There's no fine-tuning, no wheeling-and-dealing or give-and-take that's going to get this done. Now it's time for hardball - and that's Johnson's game.
 
Cordelier said:
I understand what you "think" they are... and I also understand that worst-case scenarios rarely come to pass. They're good for scaring kids, though. Kids don't know any better.

There's scope for agreement there if both sides are willing. Obviously a Customs Union isn't in the picture... but I'm sure a Free-Trade Agreement between the UK and EU could be negotiated consistent with WTO rules on regional trade agreements. Canada negotiated a Free Trade with the EU... so why not the UK?
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The EU offered the UK a better deal than the Canada deal 2 years ago and the UK Govt turned it down under duress from the ERG and DUP over the border problem and the ERG wanting a no-deal. Back to WTO that you seem to think may take less than the 7 years it took for the Canada deal and remember it took the deaths of countless British soldiers and civilians over 25 years to get to the GFA.

Maybe it will be the breeze you seem to think, maybe reality will be different.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
The EU offered the UK a better deal than the Canada deal 2 years ago and the UK Govt turned it down under duress from the ERG and DUP over the border problem and the ERG wanting a no-deal. Back to WTO that you seem to think may take less than the 7 years it took for the Canada deal and remember it took the deaths of countless British soldiers and civilians over 25 years to get to the GFA.

Maybe it will be the breeze you seem to think, maybe reality will be different.
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Well, I'd reply that the UK would be starting from a vastly further advanced position in it's negotiating position with the EU than Canada did... both from a geographical and an economic perspective. The EU runs a substantial trading surplus with the UK, and they're not going to want to lose that. Additionally, the UK financial markets offer EU borrowers a potential source of liquidity that can't be easily replaced. It's not like the UK is coming to these talks as a beggar with hat in hand. Both sides have the potential to lose substantially if a new deal isn't reached. The way I figure it, the dirty business is going to be killing off the Irish backstop. I don't think that's a deal-breaker for the EU... true, the Irish are going raise a stink about it and Brussels is going to have to pay them lip service. But at the end of the day, the Irish aren't running the EU - the Germans are. I think they'd be perfectly willing to let Johnson do the dirty work of killing the backstop and then once it's a fait accompli, negotiate with the UK for a new deal on that basis. And if killing the backstop leads to an election and a possible Labour Government, so much the better from Brussels' perspective. They've got no incentive to negotiate away the backstop and Johnson has no incentive to keep it.

As far as the Troubles flaring back up again, well, if that occurs as a result of changing patterns of trade, I'd say that's a pretty weak reed to stand on... could not the argument be made that a no-deal Brexit just presented a handy excuse and that any renewal of violence was therefore inevitable?
 
Cordelier said:
Well, I'd reply that the UK would be starting from a vastly further advanced position in it's negotiating position with the EU than Canada did... both from a geographical and an economic perspective. The EU runs a substantial trading surplus with the UK, and they're not going to want to lose that. Additionally, the UK financial markets offer EU borrowers a potential source of liquidity that can't be easily replaced. It's not like the UK is coming to these talks as a beggar with hat in hand. Both sides have the potential to lose substantially if a new deal isn't reached. The way I figure it, the dirty business is going to be killing off the Irish backstop. I don't think that's a deal-breaker for the EU... true, the Irish are going raise a stink about it and Brussels is going to have to pay them lip service. But at the end of the day, the Irish aren't running the EU - the Germans are. I think they'd be perfectly willing to let Johnson do the dirty work of killing the backstop and then once it's a fait accompli, negotiate with the UK for a new deal on that basis. And if killing the backstop leads to an election and a possible Labour Government, so much the better from Brussels' perspective. They've got no incentive to negotiate away the backstop and Johnson has no incentive to keep it.

As far as the Troubles flaring back up again, well, if that occurs as a result of changing patterns of trade, I'd say that's a pretty weak reed to stand on... could not the argument be made that a no-deal Brexit just presented a handy excuse and that any renewal of violence was therefore inevitable?
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So you think the EU (comprising a range of small and larger nations) are going to stab one of the smaller nations (Eire) in the back and the other smaller nations in the EU won't see a fate for themselves...

Do you want to come back when you've read a bit more and understand what the EU is and why it is so important to the mainland nations? Especially the smaller ones?
 
"German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suggested an alternative to the Irish border backstop - a key Brexit sticking point - could be found within 30 days."

I realise that Merkel isn't running the EU alone, but I'm interested to see what's up her sleeve for BoJo's visit today?

Perhaps she just enjoys placating the Buffoon?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
So you think the EU (comprising a range of small and larger nations) are going to stab one of the smaller nations (Eire) in the back and the other smaller nations in the EU won't see a fate for themselves...

Do you want to come back when you've read a bit more and understand what the EU is and why it is so important to the mainland nations? Especially the smaller ones?
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I admire your patience.

No, that's neither sarcastic nor tongue-in-cheek, I really DO.

So much for mellowing with age, I'm more easily annoyed with each day that passes..:mrgreen:
 
Snazzy said:
"German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suggested an alternative to the Irish border backstop - a key Brexit sticking point - could be found within 30 days."

I realise that Merkel isn't running the EU alone, but I'm interested to see what's up her sleeve for BoJo's visit today?

Perhaps she just enjoys placating the Buffoon?
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She knows the diplomatic value of saying nothing with many words.

What she really meant (Chagos translate) was "if you can really offer a viable alternative to the backstop, bloody well let's hear it after all of these years".

Being a lady, she wouldn't follow it (not even in her thoughts) with "you bloody idiot".:lol:
 
Infinite Chaos said:
So you think the EU (comprising a range of small and larger nations) are going to stab one of the smaller nations (Eire) in the back and the other smaller nations in the EU won't see a fate for themselves...

Do you want to come back when you've read a bit more and understand what the EU is and why it is so important to the mainland nations? Especially the smaller ones?
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Um, I think you need to read my post again.... The EU isn't stabbing Eire in the back. They're leaving that dirty work for Johnson to do. All the EU would be doing is sticking to their guns in support of Eire, issuing expressions of regret when the inevitable occurs, and then adapting to the new realities of a no-deal post-Brexit world.

"How oft the sight of means to do ill deeds
Makes ill deeds done!"
- William Shakespeare, King John, Act IV, Scene 2

Britain is going to do what it feels it must. However, when it does and the deed is done, both Britain and the EU have to come to some sort of arrangement, do they not?
 
Snazzy said:
"German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suggested an alternative to the Irish border backstop - a key Brexit sticking point - could be found within 30 days."

I realise that Merkel isn't running the EU alone, but I'm interested to see what's up her sleeve for BoJo's visit today?

Perhaps she just enjoys placating the Buffoon?
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Of course a solution could be found.. in 30 seconds frankly. But she is a shrewd politician, much better than Boris, because by saying this she puts pressure on Boris to come up with a viable alternative... which he cant or wont because he wants a hard brexit and a hard border with Ireland.

Now what I would do, was to say that all travel to the UK now should go through Ireland.. that would put a ton of pressure on the UK to find a solution because the NI border would be fully open with zero controls and anyone going there could just take a ferry to the UK mainland. Hell I would encourage all those migrants in France to go to Ireland and take the trek. That would probably be the only way to make idiots like Boris understand that the backstop or something similar is the only way to go.
 
Snazzy said:
"German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suggested an alternative to the Irish border backstop - a key Brexit sticking point - could be found within 30 days."
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Boris Johnson visit will not change German stance, says Merkel ally

8/21/19
Angela Merkel is likely to give a friendly but firm rebuttal to Boris Johnson during his first overseas visit as prime minister on Wednesday, with politicians and officials in Berlin saying they do not consider that his letter to Donald Tusk asking the EU to drop the Irish backstop contains constructive proposals for further negotiations. “The letter to the president of the European council is not a serious offer, and Boris Johnson knows it,” said Norbert Röttgen, an ally of the chancellor who heads the German parliament’s foreign affairs committee. “The British prime minister starts his letter by saying he is personally committed to finding an agreement, but there is no sign in the rest of the letter that this is actually the case,” said Röttgen, a delegate for the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU). “To suggest the backstop could weaken the Good Friday agreement – that’s strong stuff. “If Johnson really wanted to achieve something on his visits to Paris and Berlin, he would have been well advised against writing this letter.”

“I don’t see any sign of Germany having changed its position on the backstop since Johnson has come to power,” said Nicolai von Ondarza, a political scientist at Berlin’s SWP thinktank. “The official line remains the unofficial line. “What has changed is the credibility of a no-deal Brexit. But there is no room for Germany to change its position. If the EU gave in to Johnson’s hardline course now, it would send a signal not just to London but the rest of the world. This is not just a negotiation between Britain and the EU, but one watched by the whole world, including the US. “If Germany and France gave in now, it would send the fatal signal that the two biggest members states are willing to sell out smaller states for short-term economic interest.”
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Chagos said:
I admire your patience.

No, that's neither sarcastic nor tongue-in-cheek, I really DO.

So much for mellowing with age, I'm more easily annoyed with each day that passes..:mrgreen:
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Yes, but I need the voice of reality to remind me when my patience is being abused. I will respond no more to the poster in this thread. It's a waste of my time doing his research for him.

Snazzy said:
~ Perhaps she just enjoys placating the Buffoon?
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I think she's doing / saying what many should have done to the Brexiteers 3 years ago and saying: "you say it'll be easy and can be done, go ahead and do it." There's no onus on the EU or Germany to put any effort into it - mainly because they just don't think it can be done and they are going to call the Brexit bluff.
 
Honest question

I know that some things in the EU have to have all member countries support it for it to pass

Would a Brexit deal require Unanimity among member states, or just a super majority?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Honest question

I know that some things in the EU have to have all member countries support it for it to pass

Would a Brexit deal require Unanimity among member states, or just a super majority?
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Of course it would require unanimity. Even with the rather complicated majority areas the EU members always strive for unanimity.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
PeteEU said:
Of course it would require unanimity. Even with the rather complicated majority areas the EU members always strive for unanimity.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
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So Ireland by itself can block any deal correct?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Yes, but I need the voice of reality to remind me when my patience is being abused. I will respond no more to the poster in this thread. It's a waste of my time doing his research for him.
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A common failing of those who are full of themselves is that they save so little room to absorb new information from differing perspectives. Perhaps you should bear this in mind.
 
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