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No-deal Brexit spells calamity for union, warns Gordon Brown

PirateMk1 said:
They are already leaving the EU, why would there be sanctions? There would be no point.
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Because they broke the rules while they were still part of the EU. You think the EU is just going to let that happen? And like I added there would be no chance for the UK to have any kind of trade deal or agreement with the EU ever again and would make it difficult for the UK to create a trade deal or agreement with many other countries as the UK shows it cannot be trusted to uphold agreements.

Say you run a company and you have a 5-year exclusivity deal with another company but that other company has decided a year before the contract ends to start working with another different company. You are not just going to sit there, you are going to sue them. Would you continue to work with a company who has committed very serious contract violations? Other companies in the industry are not going to want to work with them either because they cannot be trusted.
 
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Carjosse said:
Because they broke the rules while they were still part of the EU. You think the EU is just going to let that happen? And like I added there would be no chance for the UK to have any kind of trade deal or agreement with the EU ever again and would make it difficult for the UK to create a trade deal or agreement with many other countries as the UK shows it cannot be trusted to uphold agreements.

Say you run a company and you have a 5-year exclusivity deal with another company but that other company has decided a year before the contract ends to start working with another different company. You are not just going to sit there, you are going to sue them. Would you continue to work with a company who has committed very serious contract violations? Other companies in the industry are not going to want to work with them either because they cannot be trusted.
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The UK has the right to talk to other countries about trade agreements, and we are less than a couple of months away and technically the Brexit should have already happened. So again why would there be a need for sanctions, or even a will to sanction, if the UK starts negotiating with other potential trade partners who most certainly know the score. The exclusivity deal has for all intents and purposes expired already.
 
Felis Leo said:
Nations joint together. Nations separate. It happens all the time. Let us hope that the both the European Union as well as the Union of the United Kingdom are capable of dissolving peacefully.
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Thanks for the comment Vlad. What's good for the goose is good for the gander so let's hope the Ukraine and all the countries of the Russian Federation are capable of dissolving peacefully and that you will get your tiny self out of Venezuela.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Interesting they would bind themselves from being able to negotiate a trade deal.
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Depends how you look at it: an individual country can try and negotiate deals and partnerships with other individual countries by itself and achieve some success, it can be argued however that once that country is part of a group who are trying to negotiate they can achieve greater deals and success. That's been the secret of the success of the EU. Lots of small countries like Netherlands / Luxembourg can achieve deals as part of a bigger collective that they had little chance before.

The UK and any other country within the EU can trade with other nations outside the EU - Germany sells cars to the US and the UK's biggest individual trading partner is the US but neither can set up a special deal with the US that the other country cannot enjoy.

PirateMk1 said:
I am curious though were the WTO can tell the UK who they may or may not negotiate deals with ~
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If you stop thinking about it as the WTO but as specific member countries such as Taiwan and China who under WTO rules were allowed to and did in 2018 protest against the UK trying to gain special preferential status and access to the EU after Brexit. The WTO is another club with rules - one member trying to undercut others by bypassing procedures and rules brings the whole thing down.

PirateMk1 said:
The UK has the right to talk to other countries about trade agreements~
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We have been - or rather a very pro Brexit trade secretary spent two years doing just that but ended up admitting very little success. Potential trading partners were more interested in us if we remain part of a bigger market area. One of the 14 deals achieved with with the Palestinian Authority...

Brexit: Liam Fox will break promise to sign 40 trade deals the 'second after' leaving - Business Insider
 
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Rogue Valley said:
No-deal Brexit spells calamity for union, warns Gordon Brown

Gordon Brown says he fears for the future of the union.

gordon-brown-brands-bbc-licence-fee-change-the-wrong-decision-136436885233910401-190610175017.jpg




I'm not sure how much relevance and gravitas Gordon Brown commands these days, but he is clearly sounding the alarm and Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, agrees with him and suggests forming a national-unity government to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Related: It’s no time to play parliamentary poker. Let the people decide on Brexit
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Ireland should reunify. Wales won't wall themselves off. Scotland is less clear, but I am not sure it will really make much practical difference as far as England since they already have home rule.
 
iguanaman said:
Thanks for the comment Vlad. What's good for the goose is good for the gander so let's hope the Ukraine and all the countries of the Russian Federation are capable of dissolving peacefully and that you will get your tiny self out of Venezuela.
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I am not sure that I understand your snipe, iguanaman, since I am of Iranian and not Russian descent. And was the United Kingdom some great bulwark against the Revanchist Russian Empire that I was not aware of, the dissolution of which would lead to some kind of European Dark Age? Was there talk of Russian nuclear missile bases being established on Scottish soil, perhaps?

If a majority of Scots no longer wish for their country to remain a part of the United Kingdom, and vote to leave, by what principle would you argue that the country should remain a part of the United Kingdom (presuming you believe in the democratic principle of the consent of the governed)? The Soviet Union's constituent nations split apart relatively peacefully. Yugoslavia...not so much. The United Kingdom is presently in the process of separating itself off from the European Union, and is doing so in an overall peaceful manner. If the Scots wish to separate and be a member of the European Union, that is the affair of their nation, is it not?

Keep in mind, I am not advocating that the Scots do this. The United Kingdom's strength as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts by all accounts. However, I do not think it is on me or anyone else to stick my nose in the internal affairs of the United Kingdom's constituent countries, as so many foreigners are wont to do with our nation. I am not a Scot, I do not have to live with what Scots live with, and I shall not pretend to know what is in the average Scot's interests.
 
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PirateMk1 said:
The UK has the right to talk to other countries about trade agreements, and we are less than a couple of months away and technically the Brexit should have already happened. So again why would there be a need for sanctions, or even a will to sanction, if the UK starts negotiating with other potential trade partners who most certainly know the score. The exclusivity deal has for all intents and purposes expired already.
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It does not have the right to talk to other countries while it remains a member of the EU, the fact is Brexit has not happened yet and the UK remains part of the EU till Halloween and until then it has to follow EU rules. If they violate EU rules they will face consequences.

If they violate that simple fundamental rule of the EU why would the EU or any country trust the UK to hold up an agreement?
 
Godric1970 said:
i don't hate or dislike the English just there increasingly annoying politicians a bit like the political elite in Washington zero time for those schmucks in general American people are pretty decent apart from the gun culture ...
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I worked with English expats, and they all believe the British empire still rules the world. Must be their schooling.

As far as American gun culture goes, just think of it as sort of like wearing a kilt- its tradition and a sign of individuality. :mrgreen:
 
PirateMk1 said:
Interesting they would bind themselves from being able to negotiate a trade deal.
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That is what a customs and trade union is all about. It is the same with Scotland, or California not being able to negotiate trade deals for themselves..

They are leaving the EU so their rules are of no consequence.
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Yes and as soon as they have, then they can do whatever .. no whatever WTO tells them they can do.

I am curious though were the WTO can tell the UK who they may or may not negotiate deals with.
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Never claimed they did.. I said that while in the EU they cant negotiate or go into any trade deals with other countries outside the EU.

The UK could also change its own law in a jiffy.
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LOL yea right, that is why they are so far behind in changing the laws that govern the UK, that they will be far from ready when they leave? They are on vacation right now and if it was up to Boris, Parliament would not come back till after the 31st. So when will these laws be changed exactly?

It would be in their interest to do so, as to have independent trade frameworks set up, even partially so, for their EU departure would be more advantageous.
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And yet they have done next to nothing of the leg work to be able to do so... odd no? The UK is in such a mess that when they leave the EU, most of the EU standards and rules will still be law in the UK because Parliament has not gotten its collective foot out of its ass to deal with it.
 
PoS said:
I worked with English expats, and they all believe the British empire still rules the world. Must be their schooling ~
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These the same expats who convinced you Poles were stealing construction jobs and that was why they were heading off to Australia?

PoS said:
~ As far as American gun culture goes, just think of it as sort of like wearing a kilt- its tradition and a sign of individuality ~
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Your individuality costs more lives per million than any other developed Western or Eastern nation. You should be embarrassed but I bet you like others take pride in mass shootings and school killings as part of American individuality?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
These the same expats who convinced you Poles were stealing construction jobs and that was why they were heading off to Australia?
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No. These were blue collar types my friends and I met at the pub. Hard working, no nonsense people who only want a fair shot but are unable to- the kind of folks you cant relate with.

Your individuality costs more lives per million than any other developed Western or Eastern nation. You should be embarrassed but I bet you like others take pride in mass shootings and school killings as part of American individuality?
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Embarrassed? Maybe you ought to look in the mirror first- your country voted to leave the EU and they cant even get it done. And let's not even mention the knife crime epidemic you people are having.

As the saying goes, people in glass houses...
 
PoS said:
No. These were blue collar types my friends and I met at the pub. Hard working, no nonsense people who only want a fair shot but are unable to- the kind of folks you cant relate with.
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I tend not to relate with people who wear white hoods with cut-out eye-slits.

PoS said:
Embarrassed? Maybe you ought to look in the mirror first- your country voted to leave the EU and they cant even get it done. And let's not even mention the knife crime epidemic you people are having.

As the saying goes, people in glass houses...
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Glass houses... just tell me what the knife crime rate per million in the US is against the UK's? As for "Brexit" - not my fault the General Election elected a Parliament that couldn't agree how to make lies work.
 
PoS said:
Embarrassed? Maybe you ought to look in the mirror first- your country voted to leave the EU and they cant even get it done. And let's not even mention the knife crime epidemic you people are having.

As the saying goes, people in glass houses...
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Indeed. UK murders per million people = 11.68/94th. US murders per million people = 42.01/43rd. The US has 4 times Britain's murder rate per million people.

United Kingdom vs United States Crime > Violent crime Stats Compared
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I tend not to relate with people who wear white hoods with cut-out eye-slits.



Glass houses... just tell me what the knife crime rate per million in the US is against the UK's? As for "Brexit" - not my fault the General Election elected a Parliament that couldn't agree how to make lies work.
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He brings up Knife crime because it is a stat that is higher in the UK or at least London than it is in the US. Of course that is generally due to the US has vastly more gun crime than the UK. Most criminals would prefer to use a gun rather than a knife
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
He brings up Knife crime because it is a stat that is higher in the UK or at least London than it is in the US. Of course that is generally due to the US has vastly more gun crime than the UK. Most criminals would prefer to use a gun rather than a knife
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I think the bolded applies.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Trump's knife crime claim: how do the US and UK compare? | Euronews

If you prefer a pretty picture instead.

US vs UK on knife crime - Infogram
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Infinite Chaos said:
I think the bolded applies.
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After reading what you posted, it is a strong chance it is not true for London as well. I was going on what I remembered regarding London having a higher rate than NYC.

Thanks for posting the article, it changed provided far better information than what I have read in the past
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I tend not to relate with people who wear white hoods with cut-out eye-slits.
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They were decently dressed and very nice people when we had a drink with them, unlike the fascist EUslaves you hang out with.

Glass houses... just tell me what the knife crime rate per million in the US is against the UK's? As for "Brexit" - not my fault the General Election elected a Parliament that couldn't agree how to make lies work.
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Your children are getting sliced and stabbed like pigs in the streets over there.

Beyond the Blade: we finally know how many youths are killed by knives | Membership | The Guardian

While in the US, our violent crime has been the lowest in decades. So much for English superiority...

Good news: America’s crime and murder rates are down this year - Vox

As for Brexit, youre just mad the vote to stay as slaves didnt go your way.

Rogue Valley said:
Indeed. UK murders per million people = 11.68/94th. US murders per million people = 42.01/43rd. The US has 4 times Britain's murder rate per million people.

United Kingdom vs United States Crime > Violent crime Stats Compared
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If you dont like America you can always move back to Ukraine, Im sure life over there is soo much better...
 
PoS said:
They were decently dressed and very nice people when we had a drink with them, unlike the fascist EUslaves you hang out with
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Pretty sure you had your fingers crossed while you typed that.


PoS said:
Your children are getting sliced and stabbed like pigs in the streets over there.

Beyond the Blade: we finally know how many youths are killed by knives | Membership | The Guardian

While in the US, our violent crime has been the lowest in decades. So much for English superiority...

Good news: America’s crime and murder rates are down this year - Vox
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Does any of that show that stabbings in the UK are worse than in the US? Yes or no - simple question, honest answer please.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Pretty sure you had your fingers crossed while you typed that.




Does any of that show that stabbings in the UK are worse than in the US? Yes or no - simple question, honest answer please.
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I thought you'd seen the light :mrgreen:

The light as in illumination of the futility of rewarding flame-baiting trollery with response, thus not only affording it acknowledgement but guaranteeing its tiresome continuation. :2razz:

Slow day, mebbe? :lol:
 
PoS said:
If you dont like America you can always move back to Ukraine, Im sure life over there is soo much better...
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Lol. You don't give any orders around here Putin Jr. You're a laughingstock.
 
Chagos said:
I thought you'd seen the light :mrgreen:

The light as in illumination of the futility of rewarding flame-baiting trollery with response, thus not only affording it acknowledgement but guaranteeing its tiresome continuation. :2razz:

Slow day, mebbe? :lol:
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I know, slow day...
 
It's pretty clear that the name 'PoS' does not derive from 'Point of Sale' ...
 
Sven Karma said:
It's pretty clear that the name 'PoS' does not derive from 'Point of Sale' ...
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I think most would agree that PoS is an apt description for this individual.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Pretty sure you had your fingers crossed while you typed that.
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As opposed to you pulling the race card when you typed your response?

Crime in the US has gone down, you cant say the same for your beloved UK, or was it the Bahamas youre talking about since you immigrated?


Rogue Valley said:
Lol. You don't give any orders around here Putin Jr. You're a laughingstock.
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You like Ukraine more than you do America, so its clear where your loyalties are.
 
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