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No-deal Brexit spells calamity for union, warns Gordon Brown

Rogue Valley

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No-deal Brexit spells calamity for union, warns Gordon Brown

Gordon Brown says he fears for the future of the union.

gordon-brown-brands-bbc-licence-fee-change-the-wrong-decision-136436885233910401-190610175017.jpg


8/11/19
Growing nationalism is pulling the United Kingdom apart, driving it towards an unprecedented economic calamity and unleashing the most serious constitutional crisis since the 17th century, Gordon Brown warns on Sunday. In his most dire warning about the impact of a no-deal Brexit on the union, the former prime minister states that England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are “devoid of a unifying purpose” capable of holding together amid the threat of crashing out of the EU. Writing in the Observer, he says unionism is “sleepwalking into oblivion”, fueled by a “destructive, populist, nationalist ideology” deployed by Boris Johnson. He joins other senior Labour figures in pleading for urgent action against a no-deal Brexit. “If we are to understand why we are facing not only our most serious constitutional crisis since the 17th century but at the same time an unprecedented economic calamity precipitated by a no-deal exit from the European Union, we must recognize that nationalism is now driving British politics,” he writes.

Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, warned this weekend that Britain would be the “big losers” from a no-deal outcome. “If it comes to a hard Brexit, this is in no one’s interest, but the British would be the big losers,” he told the Austrian paper Tiroler Tageszeitung. “They pretend it’s not like that, but it will be … We have made it clear that we are unwilling to renegotiate the exit agreement.” Brown accuses Johnson of turning the Conservative and Unionist party into the “Conservative and Brexit party”. He adds: “Unionism appears to be sleepwalking into oblivion and the United Kingdom – once admired around the world for an understated but comfortably unifying Britishness that was inclusive, outward-looking, tolerant and ultimately pragmatic – now presents an ugly picture: of bitter division, intolerance and introversion so extreme that it has sacrificed common sense in favour of a dogmatic abandonment of its own best interests.”

I'm not sure how much relevance and gravitas Gordon Brown commands these days, but he is clearly sounding the alarm and Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, agrees with him and suggests forming a national-unity government to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Related: It’s no time to play parliamentary poker. Let the people decide on Brexit
 
The Scotts voted to remain in the union last time around. My guess is that they'll do the same this time.
 
The Scotts voted to remain in the union last time around. My guess is that they'll do the same this time.

It was by a slim margin that they voted to stay in the union. They also voted no on Brexit. The Irish may want out as well.
 
No-deal Brexit spells calamity for union, warns Gordon Brown

Gordon Brown says he fears for the future of the union.

gordon-brown-brands-bbc-licence-fee-change-the-wrong-decision-136436885233910401-190610175017.jpg




I'm not sure how much relevance and gravitas Gordon Brown commands these days, but he is clearly sounding the alarm and Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, agrees with him and suggests forming a national-unity government to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Related: It’s no time to play parliamentary poker. Let the people decide on Brexit

Nations joint together. Nations separate. It happens all the time. Let us hope that the both the European Union as well as the Union of the United Kingdom are capable of dissolving peacefully.
 
Nations joint together. Nations separate. It happens all the time. Let us hope that the both the European Union as well as the Union of the United Kingdom are capable of dissolving peacefully.

I think the Irish and Scotts will come around to the English side of things after the Brexit happens. If we were smart we would have a trade deal done before Brexit.
 
Tantrum alert:

The Scotts might be the neighbours down the lane. The people of Scotland are Scots, not Scotts nor Scotch (which you drink)

iT'S SCOTS for the love of God, so please get it right.

Tantrum now over.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Former UK PM Gordon Brown is a Scot and sees the dismemberment of the United Kingdom and perhaps the attendent violence in that break-up as a very real threat from an ill-managed Brexit. He is a very wise man who cares for all of Britain's welfare but few in power in Westminster are heeding his warnings. Arrogance and hubris reign in the Conservative Party at this time and they may be deaf to such warnings.

Cheers and possible regrets.
Evilroddy.
 
Former UK PM Gordon Brown is a Scot and sees the dismemberment of the United Kingdom and perhaps the attendent violence in that break-up as a very real threat from an ill-managed Brexit. He is a very wise man ....

No. He may be a very clever son of the Manse, but as a PM he was a pallid clown.
 
~ Let us hope that the both the European Union as well as the Union of the United Kingdom are capable of dissolving peacefully.

I have no idea why so many from outside the EU want to see it fail but with regard to your point - the UK is more likely to dissolve than the EU. Scotland will someday in the next 30 years vote for independence and Northern Ireland (simply through birthrate change) will become largely Catholic by 2031 and thus vote to rejoin with Eire.

Speak to most Europeans on the mainland and they are happy within the EU - so why do so many Americans keep wanting them to be unhappy?
 
I have no idea why so many from outside the EU want to see it fail but with regard to your point - the UK is more likely to dissolve than the EU. Scotland will someday in the next 30 years vote for independence and Northern Ireland (simply through birthrate change) will become largely Catholic by 2031 and thus vote to rejoin with Eire.

Speak to most Europeans on the mainland and they are happy within the EU - so why do so many Americans keep wanting them to be unhappy?

I expect fear of competition.

A more unified EU can provide a geopolitical rival to the US. The EU economically is generally on par with the EU. If the EU were to ever get a military, it would not need the US military in the EU. That would reduce the influence the US can exert in Europe and surrounding area. Making the US comparatively weaker than it would otherwise would be.
 
Tantrum alert:

The Scotts might be the neighbours down the lane. The people of Scotland are Scots, not Scotts nor Scotch (which you drink)

iT'S SCOTS for the love of God, so please get it right.

Tantrum now over.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Call them Jocks instead... ;)
 
The Scotts voted to remain in the union last time around. My guess is that they'll do the same this time.

One of the main arguments for staying in the UK was that by leaving the UK they would automatically be leaving the EU. Given that the opposite is now true the results of any future referendum would probably be very different. Though personally I have never understood why keeping countries together is seen as an end in itself.
 
The Scotts voted to remain in the union last time around. My guess is that they'll do the same this time.

well then guess again ... the majority of Scots want independence and unlike London we will not pander to Washington

I think the Irish and Scotts will come around to the English side of things after the Brexit happens. If we were smart we would have a trade deal done before Brexit.
well you will be wrong sunshine
 
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Tantrum alert:

The Scotts might be the neighbours down the lane. The people of Scotland are Scots, not Scotts nor Scotch (which you drink)

iT'S SCOTS for the love of God, so please get it right.

Tantrum now over.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
Thanks for saving me the work:lol:
 
If we were smart we would have a trade deal done before Brexit.

Except that is not allowed. Members of the EU cannot negotiate trade deals independently and until Halloween the UK is still part of the EU.
 
Except that is not allowed. Members of the EU cannot negotiate trade deals independently and until Halloween the UK is still part of the EU.

The UK can do whatever they want. They are a sovereign nation.
 
The UK can do whatever they want. They are a sovereign nation.
No they can't....WTO rules, EU rules and of course UK law all state they can't.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
I expect fear of competition.

A more unified EU can provide a geopolitical rival to the US. The EU economically is generally on par with the EU. If the EU were to ever get a military, it would not need the US military in the EU. That would reduce the influence the US can exert in Europe and surrounding area. Making the US comparatively weaker than it would otherwise would be.

Ironic then that so many Americans say they want individual countries in the EU "to be free" / "gain independence" "from the shackles of the EU" when it is simply about keeping US influence over European nations as strong as possible - prefer they were just honest to themselves and us.
 
Ironic then that so many Americans say they want individual countries in the EU "to be free" / "gain independence" "from the shackles of the EU" when it is simply about keeping US influence over European nations as strong as possible - prefer they were just honest to themselves and us.
Maybe we should start supporting independence for US states..

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
LOL I was kidding. I like Scots, more than English people anyway.

i don't hate or dislike the English just there increasingly annoying politicians a bit like the political elite in Washington zero time for those schmucks in general American people are pretty decent apart from the gun culture ...
 
No they can't....WTO rules, EU rules and of course UK law all state they can't.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk

Interesting they would bind themselves from being able to negotiate a trade deal. They are leaving the EU so their rules are of no consequence. I am curious though were the WTO can tell the UK who they may or may not negotiate deals with. The UK could also change its own law in a jiffy. It would be in their interest to do so, as to have independent trade frameworks set up, even partially so, for their EU departure would be more advantageous.
 
The UK can do whatever they want. They are a sovereign nation.

They can but it would also mean punishment and consequences for breaking the rules of the EU. Instead of a deal or even just no deal there would be punitive sanctions instead and mean no trade deals or agreements with the EU or many other countries. It would show the UK cannot be trusted in any kind of trade deal or agreement.

Would you do business with someone who has committed very serious violations of a contract?
 
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They can but it would also mean punishment and consequences for breaking the rules of the EU. Instead of a deal or even just no deal there would be punitive sanctions instead.

They are already leaving the EU, why would there be sanctions? There would be no point.
 
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