Five years ago today the Russian criminals killed 298 of passengers of MH17

Today we remember the 298 passengers and crew of the MH17 criminal downing by Russian operatives from the Ukrainian rebels and the Russian armed forces.



The names of the victims were read by family members of the victims. And our prime-minister said that there needs to be justice for these innocent victims of Russian aggression.





Five years ago today Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board, including 196 Dutch. The victims of this disaster were commemorated at the National MH17 Monument in Vijfhuizen on Wednesday afternoon.

The commemoration was held at 2:15 p.m. on Wednesday afternoon, and then broadcast on NPO at 6:55 p.m. It was open only to invited guests , including the victims' relatives and friends, and organizations that were involved in the aftermath of the disaster. King Willem-Alexander and Queen Maxima attended. Prime Minister Mark Rutte was there as representative of the Dutch government.

The names of the 298 people who died in the disaster were read aloud by their friends and family members. After speaking a few words, Prime Minister Rutte put down flowers at the monument along with young relatives of the victims. Piet Ploeg, chairman of Vliegramp MH17 -the foundation that supports the relatives, also spoke during the commemoration. Around the time of the disaster, a minute of silence was held.

The national monument in Vijfhuizen was opened two years ago. It includes a forest of 298 trees - one for every person who died when the passenger plane was shot down. The monument is surrounded by a field of sunflowers. These flowers were planted with seeds from the Ukraine. Sunflowers growing at the site of the disaster in eastern Ukraine became a symbol of hope in the immediate aftermath.

Hilversum also held a smaller-scale commemoration on Wednesday morning. The city lost 15 of its residents in the disaster and played an important role in the aftermath - the victims' remains were taken to a Hilversum barracks for identification. "Life goes on, even though not a day is the same as before the MH17 disaster. We all feel it", mayor Pieter Broertjes said at the commemoration.


THE MH17 CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION:

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17th, 2014. All 298 people on board, including 196 Dutch, were killed. In June 2019 the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) announced that the criminal trial against the first four suspects in this case - three Russians and one Ukrainian - will start on March 9th, 2020.

Igor Girkin, Sergey Dubinskiy, Oleg Pulatov, and Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko are suspected of playing crucial roles in delivering the missile system that shot down MH17. They will be prosecuted for causing the crash and leading to the death of everyone on board. They are also facing charges of murdering 298 passengers and crew members of MH17.

Investigation by the Dutch Safety Board and JIT previously revealed that the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down by a BUK missile system from the 53rd Anti-aircraft Brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, fired from a field in Ukraine that was under the control of pro-Russian separatists at the time.

In addition to the JIT criminal investigation, the Netherlands is also in talks with Russia about state liability. The Netherlands and Australia officially held Russia accountable for its role in the MH17 disaster - providing the BUK missile system with which the passenger plane was downed.

According to the JIT, Russia is not cooperating with the investigation into the disaster, refusing to respond to requests for legal assistance. “We now have the information, have the proof, that the Russian Federation is involved in this tragedy, in this crime, one way or another.” Dutch Prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said in the press conference in June.

Following the announcement of the first four suspects' prosecution, the Russian Federation denounced the "biased, one-sided nature of the inquiry". Minister Ferdinand Grapperhaus of Justice and Security announced that the Netherlands took "diplomatic steps" against Russia, in an attempt to force the country to cooperate with the JIT.

Netherlands commemorates 5th anniversary of MH17 disaster | NL Times

Condolences. I doubt Putin will ever acknowledge Russia's part in this but it's important to keep the pressure going.

Leonid Kharchenko, who led a military combat unit in the city of Donetsk as a commander, is the main culprit. Russia is responsible for providing the pro-Russia unit with the missile, which Ukrainian soldiers on the ground could not handle due to the lack of training. A Ukrainian truck driver who transported the missile which shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 has been in jail since 2017.

Ukrainian security services have confirmed the driver of a truck that transported the missile which shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 has been in jail since 2017.

MH17 was flying from the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur to Amsterdam in the Netherlands on 17 July 2014, when it was shot down in eastern Ukraine. All 298 people on-board were killed.

An official from Ukraine's State Security Service (SBU) Vitaly Mayakov told reporters at a press conference that the service had tracked down a man from Donestk, who was approached by separatists and asked to tow the missile.

MH17: Driver who transported missile that downed Malaysia Airlines flight jailed | World News | Sky News

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ThirdTerm said:

Russia is responsible for providing the pro-Russia unit with the missile, which Ukrainian soldiers on the ground could not handle due to the lack of training. A Ukrainian truck driver who transported the missile which shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 has been in jail since 2017.

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Moscow provided the Buk missile platform and the Russian soldiers that manned it near Torez, eastern Ukraine. Russia's 53rd Antiaircraft Missile Brigade, based in the southern Russian city of Kursk, has been named as the main culprit in shooting down MH17.

Linking MH17 To Russia's 53rd Brigade

MH17 - Potential Suspects and Witnesses from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade


On 27 June 2019 the Ukraine Security Service (SBU) captured Volodymyr Tsemakh (a/k/a Volodymyr Cemakh) in the occupied town of Snizhne, eastern Ukraine and smuggled him through the Mariinka checkpoint and into Ukraine. Tsemakh was the rebel "air defense commander" in this area which includes the town of Torez where the Russian Buk stopped right before it shot down flight MH17. He is being debriefed as I write this. The communications of Tsemakh with the Russian Buk commander were intercepted. He should have a very interesting story to tell investigators.

For readers interested in Russia's side of the story, the following article compiled by an American historian is fairly comprehensive:

MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine’s Guilt Now Proven — Strategic Culture

I'm neither endorsing nor disputing it, simply providing it as "the other side of the story".

I will say that the US should stay out of the Ukrainian and Syrian conflicts if your leaders have any sense at all. I'll also emphasize how important it is that you not be led down the garden path by the MIC into armed confrontation with Russia.

Peter King said:

Today we remember the 298 passengers and crew of the MH17 criminal downing by Russian operatives from the Ukrainian rebels and the Russian armed forces.

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My condolences to the Dutch nation and all who lost loved ones in this senseless tragedy.

COTO said:

I will say that the US should stay out of the Ukrainian and Syrian conflicts if your leaders have any sense at all. I'll also emphasize how important it is that you not be led down the garden path by the MIC into armed confrontation with Russia.

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The West should never ignore naked aggression by the Russians on the European continent.

And here is a more comprehensive article on what occurred on 17 July 2014.....

5 Years Since MH17 Downing: Following the Footsteps of Russia’s Involvement

Tracing five years of Kremlin disinformation about MH17: Infographic

Rogue Valley said:

Tracing five years of Kremlin disinformation about MH17: Infographic

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What a cavalcade of lies and lies and lies and lies. The Russians must not believe in the Truth or think we are easily fooled. Newsflash, we know the Truth and it was the Russians who did it.

Peter King said:

What a cavalcade of lies and lies and lies and lies. The Russians must not believe in the Truth or think we are easily fooled. Newsflash, we know the Truth and it was the Russians who did it.

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I guess it really comes down to: who do we believe more?

I can't vouch for either side when it comes to MH17, but I do know that @RogueValley's "The West should never ignore naked aggression by the Russians on the European continent." attitude is utter foolishness. It's the same pig-headed bravado that got you guys into Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, burning trillions of dollars you can't afford, fomenting wars you can't win, and multiplying enemies that threaten to overwhelm you.

Normally I'd say "If they're fool enough to start another war, it's no skin off my nose. Let them suffer and bleed if they're so eager." But Russia isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria. Russia is a nuclear power.

COTO said:

I guess it really comes down to: who do we believe more?

I can't vouch for either side when it comes to MH17, but I do know that @RogueValley's "The West should never ignore naked aggression by the Russians on the European continent." attitude is utter foolishness. It's the same pig-headed bravado that got you guys into Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, burning trillions of dollars you can't afford, fomenting wars you can't win, and multiplying enemies that threaten to overwhelm you.

Normally I'd say "If they're fool enough to start another war, it's no skin off my nose. Let them suffer and bleed if they're so eager." But Russia isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria. Russia is a nuclear power.

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I believe the side with the evidence and the facts, aka the Dutch and the JIT.

COTO said:

I can't vouch for either side when it comes to MH17, but I do know that @RogueValley's "The West should never ignore naked aggression by the Russians on the European continent." attitude is utter foolishness.

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I've been on the receiving end of Russian artillery. Have you ever been?

COTO said:

Normally I'd say "If they're fool enough to start another war, it's no skin off my nose. Let them suffer and bleed if they're so eager." But Russia isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria. Russia is a nuclear power.

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Russia is indeed a nuclear power. But the Kremlin and Putin also believe in MAD. They're not going nuclear unless attacked by nuclear.

The Kremlin doesn't have the logistic capabilities for extended conventional warfare which is why she bully's smaller neighbors like Georgia and Ukraine.

If your so eager to surrender a country to Putin, then volunteer Canada.

Peter King said:

I believe the side with the evidence and the facts, aka the Dutch and the JIT.

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You believe your favorite liars. Evidence has a unique property: it's objectively verifiable! Definitely not the case here!

Malaysia Prime Minister:

TOKYO (Bernama): The Malaysian government wants strong evidence to show that Russia is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 tragedy in 2014, says Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad.

"They are accusing Russia, but where is the evidence?

"We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian-type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.

"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians.

"It could be by the rebels in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile,” he said during a dialogue and media conference with the Japanese Foreign Correspondent Club (FCCJ) here on Thursday (May 30).

Dr Mahathir said Malaysia accepted the investigation report by Holland but only up the point where the plane was brought down by a missile made by Russia.

He said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it could not be ascertained that the missile was launched by Russia.

The Russians were a military people and they would know that MH17 was a passenger plane, he added.

"I don’t think very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile,” he said.

The Prime Minister said Malaysia should also have been involved in the examining the black box as the plane belonged to Malaysia and there were Malaysians passengers.

"We may not have the expertise, but we can buy the expertise. For some reasons, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.

"We don’t know why we were excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened but seemed to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians.

"This is not a neutral kind of examination,” said Dr Mahathir.

Had a neutral party examined and made the conclusion, Malaysia would be willing to accept the findings but here we have parties with political interests in the matter, he added.

Read more at MH17: Where is the evidence Russia is responsible, asks Dr M - Nation | The Star Online

Nilhus said:

You believe your favorite liars. Evidence has a unique property: it's objectively verifiable! Definitely not the case here!

Malaysia Prime Minister:

TOKYO (Bernama): The Malaysian government wants strong evidence to show that Russia is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 tragedy in 2014, says Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad.

"They are accusing Russia, but where is the evidence?

"We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian-type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.

"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians.

"It could be by the rebels in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile,” he said during a dialogue and media conference with the Japanese Foreign Correspondent Club (FCCJ) here on Thursday (May 30).

Dr Mahathir said Malaysia accepted the investigation report by Holland but only up the point where the plane was brought down by a missile made by Russia.

He said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it could not be ascertained that the missile was launched by Russia.

The Russians were a military people and they would know that MH17 was a passenger plane, he added.

"I don’t think very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile,” he said.

The Prime Minister said Malaysia should also have been involved in the examining the black box as the plane belonged to Malaysia and there were Malaysians passengers.

"We may not have the expertise, but we can buy the expertise. For some reasons, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.

"We don’t know why we were excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened but seemed to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians.

"This is not a neutral kind of examination,” said Dr Mahathir.

Had a neutral party examined and made the conclusion, Malaysia would be willing to accept the findings but here we have parties with political interests in the matter, he added.

Read more at MH17: Where is the evidence Russia is responsible, asks Dr M - Nation | The Star Online

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Nope the Liar is Russia, it is laughable to claim anything else because the evidence is objective and verifiable, that is why there is a trail next year. Just because this guy is a gutless idiot is his problem. We have the evidence we need to prosecute no matter what lies Russia brings out.

Peter King said:

Nope the Liar is Russia, it is laughable to claim anything else because the evidence is objective and verifiable, that is why there is a trail next year. Just because this guy is a gutless idiot is his problem. We have the evidence we need to prosecute no matter what lies Russia brings out.

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Claiming that you have something is not the same as having something.

If evidence is objective and verifiable, then anyone can verify it and no on can deny it.

You don't have anything but baseless claims !

Nilhus said:

Claiming that you have something is not the same as having something.

If evidence is objective and verifiable, then anyone can verify it and no on can deny it.

You don't have anything but baseless claims !

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And you are totally clueless about the evidence we have. It is verifiable and no objective person can deny it. Russians might but honest objective people will agree fully with the evidence that was collected.

Nilhus said:

You believe your favorite liars. Evidence has a unique property: it's objectively verifiable! Definitely not the case here!

Malaysia Prime Minister:

TOKYO (Bernama): The Malaysian government wants strong evidence to show that Russia is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 tragedy in 2014, says Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad.

"They are accusing Russia, but where is the evidence?

"We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian-type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.

"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians.

"It could be by the rebels in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile,” he said during a dialogue and media conference with the Japanese Foreign Correspondent Club (FCCJ) here on Thursday (May 30).

Dr Mahathir said Malaysia accepted the investigation report by Holland but only up the point where the plane was brought down by a missile made by Russia.

He said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it could not be ascertained that the missile was launched by Russia.

The Russians were a military people and they would know that MH17 was a passenger plane, he added.

"I don’t think very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile,” he said.

The Prime Minister said Malaysia should also have been involved in the examining the black box as the plane belonged to Malaysia and there were Malaysians passengers.

"We may not have the expertise, but we can buy the expertise. For some reasons, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.

"We don’t know why we were excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened but seemed to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians.

"This is not a neutral kind of examination,” said Dr Mahathir.

Had a neutral party examined and made the conclusion, Malaysia would be willing to accept the findings but here we have parties with political interests in the matter, he added.

Read more at MH17: Where is the evidence Russia is responsible, asks Dr M - Nation | The Star Online

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What the Malaysian PM spouted, as well as his clearly discernible motives for it, has already been dealt with in here when the other Olgino chap dishonestly brought it up.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/russia-ukraine/359943-dutch-prosecutor-names-four-charged-murder-downing-mh17-2.html#post1070231421

Nilhus said:

Claiming that you have something is not the same as having something.

If evidence is objective and verifiable, then anyone can verify it and no on can deny it.

You don't have anything but baseless claims !

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Your soul brother (if one assumes that you're NOT identical and that's a load of assuming) already failed with pathetic and dishonest attempts at obfuscation like this one. I predict that you will fare no better here and also suggest you stick to forums where you can insult the intelligence of readers without any further consequences.:roll:

Nilhus said:

Claiming that you have something is not the same as having something.

If evidence is objective and verifiable, then anyone can verify it and no on can deny it.

You don't have anything but baseless claims !

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Then purchase/reserve your airline ticket for the Netherlands and be in attendance at the trial court on 9 March 2020.

Volunteer your legal services for the defense. Bill the Kremlin.

Vladimir Putin
23, Ulitsa Ilyinka, 103132,
Moscow, Russia.

Peter King said:

And you are totally clueless about the evidence we have

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If there were any evidence, you would have presented it by now! Repeating a lie in the hope that it will be believed is a bit outdated!

Rogue Valley said:

Then purchase/reserve your airline ticket for the Netherlands and be in attendance at the trial court on 9 March 2020.

Volunteer your legal services for the defense. Bill the Kremlin.

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The actual situation is beyond absurd:

Three weeks after the disaster, the four countries in the JIT signed a secret non-disclosure agreement to ensure consensus among themselves before any information on the investigation is released.

One obvious question was ignored by the global media.

Why was Ukraine, a party involved in a conflict with separatist rebels and as such should have been rightly regarded as a suspect, be included in the investigation?

If Ukraine was included, why not Russia?

And why was Malaysia, the owner of the plane, left out of the initial "state responsibility" meeting and the non-disclosure pact?

Malaysia was only invited to join the JIT much later, and that too as part of the technical study team but not the criminal investigation.

Ironically, our aviation disaster experts were the first on the ground and Malaysia initiated the move to recover the black boxes of the wrecked plane by contacting separatists in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

Malaysia also arranged for the remains of the victims to be taken by a train with a refrigeration system before they were flown to the Netherlands.

Former US president Barack Obama, whose administration foisted the coup against the democratically elected pro-Russian ex-Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, set the script for Russia's culpability.

[...]

Despite the unanswered questions and inconsistencies, any alternate views to the US' and its Nato allies' version of what happened are immediately rejected without rational consideration as "fake" or "manipulations" or dismissed as "conspiracy theories".

In 2016, the JIT stated that the Buk Telar (transporter erector launcher and radar)missile system involved in the MH17 tragedy crossed the Russian border into eastern Ukraine and returned after the plane was shot down.

However, instead of hard data (such as primary radar evidence, clear photographs or satellite images of the actual shooting), the claim was only backed by computer animation and a blurry amateur video.

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Seeking the truth about MH17: The Star columnist, SE Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

Despicable idiots!

So we have:
- a bunch of crooks, including one of the MAIN SUSPECTS, all of them enemies of another suspect, banded together to form a so called "investigation team" (since when can suspects be part of investigation team?? who gave them the right and the legitimacy to form such a team?)

- the main party interested, and the only neutral and independent party from a political standpoint - Malaysia - which own the plane and had the second largest number of casualties, WAS EXCLUDED FROM THE INVESTIGATION without JUSTIFICATION!!!! (only later they accepted Malaysia but only for technical stuff, not for the so called "criminal" pseudo-investigation) (btw. WTF are Belgium and Australia doing in that "team"? and not Malaysia?????)

- the crooks decided that the investigation should be kept secret (they had non-disclosure agreements) and should make any info public only if they reach a consensus

- as a result of the above it means any of them - including the SUSPECT among them - can veto the results if they're not to their liking! (whoa! this is beyond crazy!)

What we have here is not just a parody of justice, but a politically motivated criminal undertaking by a bunch of countries, which seeks to falsely accuse and "punish" another country - one that they regard as being their enemy! No one in his right mind can ever consider these actions as having anything to do with the notion of "justice"! It's only crooks paid by various propagandistic programs like this one or this one (which have been caught spreading propagandistic fake new themselves - and ordered by courts to take the fake accusations down) that try to deceive the public!

As such, you won't see Russia recognizing the legitimacy of any such "trial" orchestrated by anti-russian kangaroo* courts! The americans won't trust the ICC(which is truly international) and you want Russia to trust an ad-hoc court created by a bunch of its enemies? LOL! :lamo
* these kangaroos must be pot-smoking transsexual kangaroos :lol:

Nilhus said:

So we have:~......................~

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Nilhus said:

If there were any evidence, .......................~

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Yeah, any thinking person on here knows what we have in YOU!

Like your alter-ego, just another Putinist propagandist who actually has nothing at all, but spouts forth with pompous and totally unwarranted self-importance, all in the arrogant assumption that readers will be too stupid to see that.

Meanwhile, in the habitual Glavset manner, steering well clear of any facts that were actually presented and hoping with equally stupid arrogance that constant repetition of the tripe that's already been refuted, will make some sort of impact on the critical reader.

Laughable, were it not so sad.

The actual situation is beyond absurd:



Despicable idiots!

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Well, I wasn't going to be that harsh, but if you insist.

Nilhus said:

If there were any evidence, you would have presented it by now! Repeating a lie in the hope that it will be believed is a bit outdated!

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You are totally clueless about this whole issue as your posts clearly show. Ignorant to the level of really really really highest level. Because the lie comes from you, the truth comes from the Joint Investigation team and the Dutch prosecution service.

This is not our first discussion about this on the forum, we have presented all the evidence so I am not going to rehash the evidence just because you refuse to believe the truth.

Here are the facts and the evidence, have fun reading it.

MH17 crash - Openbaar Ministerie

It is in English so that will help.

Nilhus said:

So we have:
- a bunch of crooks, including one of the MAIN SUSPECTS, all of them enemies of another suspect, banded together to form a so called "investigation team" (since when can suspects be part of investigation team?? who gave them the right and the legitimacy to form such a team?)

- the main party interested, and the only neutral and independent party from a political standpoint - Malaysia - which own the plane and had the second largest number of casualties, WAS EXCLUDED FROM THE INVESTIGATION without JUSTIFICATION!!!! (only later they accepted Malaysia but only for technical stuff, not for the so called "criminal" pseudo-investigation) (btw. WTF are Belgium and Australia doing in that "team"? and not Malaysia?????)

- the crooks decided that the investigation should be kept secret (they had non-disclosure agreements) and should make any info public only if they reach a consensus

- as a result of the above it means any of them - including the SUSPECT among them - can veto the results if they're not to their liking! (whoa! this is beyond crazy!)

What we have here is not just a parody of justice, but a politically motivated criminal undertaking by a bunch of countries, which seeks to falsely accuse and "punish" another country - one that they regard as being their enemy! No one in his right mind can ever consider these actions as having anything to do with the notion of "justice"! It's only crooks paid by various propagandistic programs like this one or this one (which have been caught spreading propagandistic fake new themselves - and ordered by courts to take the fake accusations down) that try to deceive the public!

As such, you won't see Russia recognizing the legitimacy of any such "trial" orchestrated by anti-russian kangaroo* courts! The americans won't trust the ICC(which is truly international) and you want Russia to trust an ad-hoc court created by a bunch of its enemies? LOL! :lamo
* these kangaroos must be pot-smoking transsexual kangaroos :lol:

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You truly are lying your ass off here, lie after lie, distortion after distortion and ignorance in abundance is what you show here.

The Court is objective, if the prosecution cannot prove it case, well then the prosecution looses. And anti-Russian? The court could give a crap from what country someone is, they look at the facts and the evidence. That you are unwilling to accept the truth in this is your problem. Not the problem of the Netherlands.

And you ask why Australia is involved? Because in the MH17 plane there were 27 Australians. The Belgians are involved because there are 4 dead Belgians due to the MH17 crash.