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What makes a country "great" and is there a "greatest country" right now?

Infinite Chaos said:
You know, for a millisecond I started making a mental list of all the things he got wrong then I read your post. Felt much better after talking myself out of wasting a whole afternoon making a list he was never going to read.
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A brief reply or link would suffice.
 
truthatallcost said:
Which historical fact did I get wrong?
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Rogue Valley said:
I doubt anyone wants to spend an afternoon replying to that.
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Infinite Chaos said:
You know, for a millisecond I started making a mental list of all the things he got wrong then I read your post. Felt much better after talking myself out of wasting a whole afternoon making a list he was never going to read.
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It's actually an easy task, seeing how the answer is "all of them".

Not just in this instance either.
 
ocean515 said:
I read your post several times, and couldn't make any real sense of it. But thanks for trying.

I will say that if we are to be judged by where we are heading, should liberal progressives take control, we will be heading into oblivion.
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There are three branches of government, did you know that? What I said in my post was pretty simple. We did some terrible things but built a nation based on really good principles (such as checks and balances). The 16 years from Clinton to Bush set us up for endless war, a terrible recession, and eventual partisan bickering that continues to dominate the news cycle which creates the illusion that there are two Americas that hate each other and have no common ground. That rhetoric is idiotic. So I don't know what part you didn't understand - I said that immigrants want to get here because we have opportunity, safety and jobs; all of which countries like France and Germany have but aren't on their border. Or that the most talked about/influential country (the Paris Hilton of countries, Kim Kardashian would have been a better analogy) isn't "the greatest" simply for that reason.

But electing Bernie Sanders won't vault us into oblivion. Allowing billionaires, lobbyists and bureaucrats to own our representatives instead of the electorate owning them is what will vault us into oblivion. Because that is the only way you wind up with a country that actually isn't by the people, for the people.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Both of you made some really good points in your posts but you also finished off with points relevant to many countries. "Greatness" is almost a destination or ideal for a country to aim for - I should almost have asked the question in the OP - which country has the most potential to define and reach "greatness" for itself (and by that I mean all its citizens)
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My answer would be Greenland. Easily. They've got infinite potential and possibly infinite resources that will give them a slow and steady rise to power over the course of the next few centuries. We'll be long gone, but they might be the greatest and last superpower the Earth will ever know. So I guess that's my idea of greatness - the ability to start completely fresh, having learned from every mistake the great powers of this planet have made. Put me under the ice sheet in Greenland and let me thaw out there in a few hundred years. That would be rad.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I doubt anyone wants to spend an afternoon replying to that.
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Trump is MAD — Making America Dysfunctional — and ‘ouch’ on that presser from the Squad
 
truthatallcost said:
Europeans were only intensely involved in roughly 100 years of Africa's history, yet we're told this is why Africa lags behind today. Pure fiction.
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Modern Africa is exactly the way it is today because of European colonization, yes.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Modern Africa is exactly the way it is today because of European colonization, yes.
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I don't believe that's true, in so far as explaining the lag behind other regions of the world, such as Asia, Europe, and the Americas.
Of course, you'll say that European oppression is the most important factor, while I'd point to other evidence.
 
truthatallcost said:
I don't believe that's true, in so far as explaining the lag behind other regions of the world, such as Asia, Europe, and the Americas.
Of course, you'll say that European oppression is the most important factor, while I'd point to other evidence.
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Your blatant racism is noted but superiority on account of being white is clearly refuted alone by the example you personally present.
 
truthatallcost said:
I don't believe that's true, in so far as explaining the lag behind other regions of the world, such as Asia, Europe, and the Americas.
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Africa lags behind a lot of the rest of the world because so many of its countries are defined by borders that pay no attention to ethnic or linguistic differences, fermenting disunity. That is a direct result of colonization.

Of course, you'll say that European oppression is the most important factor, while I'd point to other evidence.
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If you're wondering why Africa never developed the major powers like Europe or Asia, that's a simple matter of geography and environment.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Modern Africa is exactly the way it is today because of European colonization, yes.
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There hasn't been a European colonist in Africa since the 1970s. :lol: Most of Africa's problems can be traced to tribal warfare, cronyism, and endemic corruption. The shores of Lake Geneva were (are?) lined with chalets owned by former African politicians--a sort of reverse colonization. :lol:

8511cfc17c5b4856b71df08d269223d3_w500_h300_cp.jpg

UBS Buys Former Mobutu Swiss Mansion

'Abacha loot': Switzerland to return $320m to Nigeria
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Africa lags behind a lot of the rest of the world because so many of its countries are defined by borders that pay no attention to ethnic or linguistic differences, fermenting disunity. That is a direct result of colonization.
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The Arab slave trade predated European colonialism. But I wouldn't blame that either, as the Arab slave trade captured people as far away as Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, France, England, the Netherlands, and Iceland. Slavery, colonization, and the like were once the order of the day, worldwide. Even China had a share of black African slaves at one point.

Even prior to all that, African kingdoms warred for resources, and territory. I think people want to look back to some fairy tale time in Africa's history, before the European period, and also not addressing the Arab period, to imagine some variation of the Garden of Eden story, where Africa was a place of peace and prosperity, and then the serpent ended all of that, so screw the serpent.

If you're wondering why Africa never developed the major powers like Europe or Asia, that's a simple matter of geography and environment.
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But not resources, because Africa is rich in natural resources which can be marketed worldwide. Something else is responsible for why Africa remains so poor, so uneducated, and so corrupt. 'Borders' isn't an adequate explanation, imo.
 
truthatallcost said:
But not resources, because Africa is rich in natural resources which can be marketed worldwide. Something else is responsible for why Africa remains so poor, so uneducated, and so corrupt. 'Borders' isn't an adequate explanation, imo.
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One of the most endowed countries on the planet with natural wealth--the Democratic Republic of the Congo--is also one of the poorest, unless you were president or a friend or relative of his:

The Democratic Republic of Congo is entering its third decade of armed conflict. Throughout this period corruption has been tightly linked to conflict. The 2006 Congolese constitution was created in the aftermath of thirty-two years of dictatorship, during which President Mobutu Sese Seko used public funds to enrich himself and his allies, and sets up safeguards to prevent the abuse of public office for personal enrichment....

Our research over the past 20 months, supported by the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting, shows that the Kabila family either partially or wholly owns more than 80 companies and businesses in the Congo and abroad. President Kabila directly and through a company he owns with his children holds more than 71,000 hectares (175,444 acres) of farmland. Two companies that belong to the family own diamond permits that extend for more than 450 miles along Congo’s southern border with Angola. Jaynet Kabila, the president’s sister and a member of parliament, owns a stake in the country’s largest mobile phone network, while their brother Zoé, who is also a parliamentarian, owns companies that have been contracted to work on some of the world’s richest mineral deposits.

All the President's Wealth: The Kabila Family Business
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This is corruption on a grand scale--billions or even tens of billions of dollars--and no matter how hard a leftist tries to twist it, it can't be blamed on Western imperialists. It's poor governance, plainly and simply.
 
Acadia said:
Liberty and freedom of the individual. There is no country greater.
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Liberty, prosperity, safety and respect for all individuals is what makes a country great IMO.
 
Grandpappy said:
Without our military, you'd be saying Hiel Hitler or worshiping the Emperor. Our strong military makes freedom possible.
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Without the joined military forces of the US, the UK and all it's colonies, Canada and Russia the powers of evil might have won.

Also it was a strong military that made the second world war possible to begin with.
 
akyron said:
Their poor people are fat and have cell phones.

I wont even go into basic history right now.
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Ahlevah said:
There hasn't been a European colonist in Africa since the 1970s. Most of Africa's problems can be traced to tribal warfare, cronyism, and endemic corruption. The shores of Lake Geneva were (are?) lined with chalets owned by former African politicians--a sort of reverse colonization.



UBS Buys Former Mobutu Swiss Mansion

'Abacha loot': Switzerland to return $320m to Nigeria
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Ahlevah said:
One of the most endowed countries on the planet with natural wealth--the Democratic Republic of the Congo--is also one of the poorest, unless you were president or a friend or relative of his:



This is corruption on a grand scale--billions or even tens of billions of dollars--and no matter how hard a leftist tries to twist it, it can't be blamed on Western imperialists. It's poor governance, plainly and simply.
Click to expand...

Please just stop with the ignorance. I'm used to it from TAAC but you are posting rubbish on a discussion thread where real discussion had been taking place. Like your colleague, a set of history lessons is in order before you post further.

Start with - who put those corrupt leaders in place? Who assassinated promising African leaders like Lumumba and had secret agents operating against freedom forces in Africa? What role did South Africa have in intentionally destabilising neighbours so that her own black population wouldn't feel like they could see a future for themselves? What role do American companies play in getting those vast resources out of Congo (for one) so that American companies can have raw materials for computer components at super-cheap prices?

Don't ask me for links - on this thread, I expected educated comments and you are clearly lacking educating yourself on this subject. Please do some basic research or expect ignorant statements to be ignored.
 
Mustachio said:
There are three branches of government, did you know that? What I said in my post was pretty simple. We did some terrible things but built a nation based on really good principles (such as checks and balances). The 16 years from Clinton to Bush set us up for endless war, a terrible recession, and eventual partisan bickering that continues to dominate the news cycle which creates the illusion that there are two Americas that hate each other and have no common ground. That rhetoric is idiotic. So I don't know what part you didn't understand - I said that immigrants want to get here because we have opportunity, safety and jobs; all of which countries like France and Germany have but aren't on their border. Or that the most talked about/influential country (the Paris Hilton of countries, Kim Kardashian would have been a better analogy) isn't "the greatest" simply for that reason.

But electing Bernie Sanders won't vault us into oblivion. Allowing billionaires, lobbyists and bureaucrats to own our representatives instead of the electorate owning them is what will vault us into oblivion. Because that is the only way you wind up with a country that actually isn't by the people, for the people.
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Bernie Sanders would vault the US into oblivion. He would need help in Congress, but for the sake of discussion.

The US is not a socialist country. It never will be. If people want the stifling safety net of Socialism, they should move to a country who has a governmental system that embraces it.
 
Ahlevah said:
There hasn't been a European colonist in Africa since the 1970s. :lol: Most of Africa's problems can be traced to tribal warfare, cronyism, and endemic corruption. The shores of Lake Geneva were (are?) lined with chalets owned by former African politicians--a sort of reverse colonization.
Click to expand...

Thinking that 50 years without colonization can undo the after effects of centuries of exploitation is quite stupid.
 
truthatallcost said:
The Arab slave trade predated European colonialism. But I wouldn't blame that either, as the Arab slave trade captured people as far away as Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, France, England, the Netherlands, and Iceland. Slavery, colonization, and the like were once the order of the day, worldwide. Even China had a share of black African slaves at one point.

Even prior to all that, African kingdoms warred for resources, and territory. I think people want to look back to some fairy tale time in Africa's history, before the European period, and also not addressing the Arab period, to imagine some variation of the Garden of Eden story, where Africa was a place of peace and prosperity, and then the serpent ended all of that, so screw the serpent.
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None of which helped Africa, but you're also just flat out ignoring the actual ramifications of all these things.


But not resources, because Africa is rich in natural resources which can be marketed worldwide. Something else is responsible for why Africa remains so poor, so uneducated, and so corrupt. 'Borders' isn't an adequate explanation, imo.
Click to expand...

And I'm sure you have the perfect explanation from StormFront, right?

If you actually don't know why Africa is the way it is, I can explain it in greater detail.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Please just stop with the ignorance. I'm used to it from TAAC but you are posting rubbish on a discussion thread where real discussion had been taking place. Like your colleague, a set of history lessons is in order before you post further.

Start with - who put those corrupt leaders in place? Who assassinated promising African leaders like Lumumba and had secret agents operating against freedom forces in Africa? What role did South Africa have in intentionally destabilising neighbours so that her own black population wouldn't feel like they could see a future for themselves? What role do American companies play in getting those vast resources out of Congo (for one) so that American companies can have raw materials for computer components at super-cheap prices?

Don't ask me for links - on this thread, I expected educated comments and you are clearly lacking educating yourself on this subject. Please do some basic research or expect ignorant statements to be ignored.
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Oh, pulleze. :roll: Lumumba's been dead for almost sixty years. How long is the Left going to rattle his bones before they just acknowledge that the real people who've failed Africa are its leaders? You asked what makes a nation great? :confused: Let's start with the rule of law. African politics are based on tribal allegiances, cronyism, and patronage. How much Western aid has been pumped into Africa just to be siphoned off into Swiss banks over the decades? The problem got so bad that aid these days is given in kind, but even then, thanks to warfare and corruption, it often doesn't get to the people who need it. In the Congo, Mobutu and Kabila are gone--along with billions of dollars and millions of dead Congolese--but huge challenges remain. You can't blame those on the Euros, the Americans, or any other Western powers.

Corruption, Violence Threaten Congo’s Foreign Aid and Investment
 
Jredbaron96 said:
~........................And I'm sure you have the perfect explanation from StormFront, right?
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You're slowly beginning to see the light. It's either StormFront or some other similar dung heap from which he also gets his idea (peddled on here elsewhere) that blacks sport a lower IQ than those not so negatively possessed of the wrong skin color.

If you actually don't know why Africa is the way it is, I can explain it in greater detail.
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I wouldn't afford him any such effort, seeing how he's not interested in explanations that contravene his White Supremacist bias.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The Pacific and Atlantic Oceans have done more to guarantee American sovereignty than any military force or weapon system.
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That implies that having strong borders is important to a country's sovereignty. Is that what you intended to say?
 
Listen it is pretty obvious which countries are the best...Norway, Denmark and Sweden. Why? Vikings.

Vikings settled in the Kievan Rus, which became modern day Russia and Ukraine.

Vikings settled in Normandy and conquered the British islands. This in turn gave the British Empire and the US.

Vikings also discovered America and traded with the middle east and further long before any other European country even existed..

Hence the superior countries are Denmark, Norway and regrettably also Sweden.

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