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Tehran fumes as Britain seizes Iranian oil tanker over Syria sanctions

Chagos said:
I know the area, been there.

Beyond which the UK isn't going to start a war with Iran over oil deliveries to third parties, even if any such ship runs under UK flag like Stena Impero (UK itself imports practically nothing from Iran).

The issue here is free supply world wide and energy prices overall, as affected by hindrance of shipping in that area.

There's going to have to be far more than just the RN, to ensure future safety there.

Now if we look at the current mess in Westminster (no doubt extending well into Whitehall), there wouldn't be anyone rocking that particular Hormuz boat, even if we had somebody in office more competent than BoJo will turn out to be.

Add to that how Trump is already in campaign for next year and how an actual military conflict would truly screw up his chances, and all we'll get is a severer tightening of the sanctions screw.

The only way to guarantee free oil deliveries from the region ('cepting Iran) to the rest of the world, thus avoiding the markets to go haywire, is to blockade the Iranian coast completely. And apart from that taking something bigger than the RN (US, Saudi, Oman and the Emirates all getting in on the act), that'll see us having a war on our hands in no time.

Make no mistake, the Iranian people will back it, no matter how much most of them hate the regime by now.
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Tanker vessels have to negotiate the Strait to dock at the Ras Laffan, Ras Tanura, Ras Juaymah, and the Basra loading wharves and then reverse the journey to exit the Persian Gulf. If the IRIN/IRGC keeps hijacking oil tankers, then they need to pay a price. Tehran understands this.
 
Evilroddy said:
Rogue Valley:

That is just distraction.

Flagged =/= Ownership. This source provides the pertinent details and has a map showing the Grace I course prior to seizure. Only after seizure did she steer north-northeast into Gibralar's claimed waters. The page also indicates that tests conducted after seizure indicate she was carrying crude oil and not fuel oil as has been claimed.

https://tankertrackers.com/news/news/grace1-detained-gibraltar

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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You are correct for one. A flag is only a place of registration for insurance purposes today. That is why Lichtenstein and Latvia, two land locked nations are offering flag registrations to former Libyan registrants. Very valuable to gunrunners, no enforcing ports of call in countries with no ports.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Tanker vessels have to negotiate the Strait to dock at the Ras Laffan, Ras Tanura, Ras Juaymah, and the Basra loading wharves and then reverse the journey to exit the Persian Gulf. If the IRIN/IRGC keeps hijacking oil tankers, then they need to pay a price. Tehran understands this.
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No doubt.

What we have now though (and not unexpectedly) is the game of pushing the envelope. First pushed in Gib, now in Hormuz (again).

What Tehran probably does not understand right now, primarily because there's no clear and unified message incoming, is how far it can push before something really gives.

Hunt voicing "his disappointment" to the Iranian ambassador and Trump sending 500 GI's to Saudi is laughable as strong messages go.
 
Chagos said:
~ Hunt voicing "his disappointment" to the Iranian ambassador ~ is laughable as strong messages go.
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Shortened to make the point we only have 13 frigates available and one (ONE) in the straits to defend our ships.
 
OldFatGuy said:
You are correct for one. A flag is only a place of registration for insurance purposes today. That is why Lichtenstein and Latvia, two land locked nations are offering flag registrations to former Libyan registrants. Very valuable to gunrunners, no enforcing ports of call in countries with no ports.
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Not to take from what you say, just to point out that Latvia is not land-locked.
 
So now the defence minister decides to declare that it is 'impossible' for the RN to defend every ship from Iran, because the it's 'too small' and admirals need more cash.

Probably would have been better off just letting the Iranian tanker sail through the straits of Gib and saved the UK from wiping egg off it's face. I mean, why start something you have no capability of finishing.

It simply makes the UK look weak and punching above its weight... As usual!
 
D_6oe5YXsAAOhWo.jpg


Almost a week ago, IRGC Navy Special Forces attempted to seize the UK owned Oil tanker British Heritage in the Persian Gulf, but the Royal Navy's HMS Montrose
Type 23 frigate scared them off. This image is taken by a Wildcat HMA.2

From what I understand, small Iranian patrol boats surrounded the UK flagged ship Stena Impero while IRGC commandos rappelled down to the ship from a hovering helicopter. It's clear they intended to seize.

I have to say, Whitehall seems derelict in not allocating appropriate assets to the Persian Gulf in the wake of the Gibraltar incident.

The only surprise about Iran's seizure of the British oil tanker is that it didn't happen sooner
 
Well, impotence rages.

(Still) Foreign Minister Jeffrey Hunt today declared his appeal to Europe to form a "European-led" protective force in the Gulf and details to be discussed by end of the week with European leaders.

Except by then, in all likelihood, Hunt will be gone.

With BoJo (the most likely next PM tomorrow) proclaiming the new Golden Age of UK-US love affair, it'll be interesting to see what the Trump administration will have to say on the matter (so far, in Trump's words, "let's wait and see what happens").

It'll be equally interesting to see what Europe will have to say on it all, IOW whether it'll be "well, it ain't our tanker, seeing how you no longer want to be part of us" or whether it'll be "okay, this concerns us all".

I suspect it'll be the latter but also suspect that beyond token words of solidarity, that'll be about it.
 
So Iran should take more British tankers until the cargo/ship value/tonnage is equal to the Grace I. Piracy begets more piracy. If Britain were sensible, then it would quietly arrange for a ship, crew and cargo swap with Iran in order to diffuse this stupid situation which the UK got itself into.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
UK Navy to escort tankers through Strait of Hormuz amid Iran crisis

7/25/19
The UK Royal Navy says it will now accompany British-flagged oil tankers through the Strait of Hormuz in the wake of Iran's seizure of a ship last week. The British Ministry of Defense (MoD) said the move was a response to "the heightened threat to commercial shipping in the Gulf," and guidance from the Department for Transport, which advised Friday that ships should not sail through the area. "The Royal Navy has been tasked to accompany British-flagged ships through the Strait of Hormuz, either individually or in groups, should sufficient notice be given of their passage," the MoD said. "Freedom of navigation is crucial for the global trading system and world economy, and we will do all we can to defend it," the MoD added.
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I believe HMS Duncan (destroyer) will shortly join with HMS Montrose (frigate) in the Persian Gulf. The HMS Kent (frigate) and RFA Wave Knight (fuel/ammo/supplies) will join in September. The Royal Navy has 6 destroyers and 13 frigates, but only ~12 ships available at any given time. Britain does not have the naval capacity to do this on her own. France, Italy, and Denmark seem as if they could be persuaded to form a protective coalition of sorts with the UK. Spain has been non-committal and Germany [unsurprisingly] has demurred.

Related: Navy to guard UK ships in strait of Hormuz, MoD says
 
Rogue Valley said:
UK Navy to escort tankers through Strait of Hormuz amid Iran crisis



I believe HMS Duncan (destroyer) will shortly join with HMS Montrose (frigate) in the Persian Gulf. The HMS Kent (frigate) and RFA Wave Knight (fuel/ammo/supplies) will join in September. The Royal Navy has 6 destroyers and 13 frigates, but only ~12 ships available at any given time. Britain does not have the naval capacity to do this on her own. France, Italy, and Denmark seem as if they could be persuaded to form a protective coalition of sorts with the UK. Spain has been non-committal and Germany [unsurprisingly] has demurred.

Related: Navy to guard UK ships in strait of Hormuz, MoD says
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Doubt anyone will help the UK other than the Americans. With Boris in charge, the European Cold War has started and it will effect this. A lot will depend on his attitude, actions and remarks over the next few weeks.

If Iran is smart, then they will stay cool and let the UK under Boris hang themselves for their own stupidity in taking Grace 1 on behalf of the Americans.
 
PeteEU said:
Doubt anyone will help the UK other than the Americans. With Boris in charge, the European Cold War has started and it will effect this. A lot will depend on his attitude, actions and remarks over the next few weeks.
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Agree with this.

PeteEU said:
If Iran is smart, then they will stay cool and let the UK under Boris hang themselves for their own stupidity in taking Grace 1 on behalf of the Americans.
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Can't agree here. Both the Brits and the Gibraltar powers-that-be have denied the existence of any third party request. Gibraltar authorities have stated they acted unilaterally.

You may be right, but until you can plop down a citation verifying a US request it remains mere supposition and conjecture.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Can't agree here. Both the Brits and the Gibraltar powers-that-be have denied the existence of any third party request. Gibraltar authorities have stated they acted unilaterally.

You may be right, but until you can plop down a citation verifying a US request it remains mere supposition and conjecture.
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Gibraltar can unilaterally do this! That is the whole point. It is crown colony with some local governance, but borders, security and trade is handled by Westminster. Hence any actions had to be sanctioned by nr. 10. It pisses me off that the media have not picked up on this massive discrepancy. They treat Gib as a country.. it aint, and never has been. It is a colony under British rule and so called sanction busting aint part of the job description of the government of Gib. Their job is to launder as much dirty money as possible and allow drug and gun trafficking into the EU to be maintained.

And the US will never verify the request, but everyone knows the Brits under Tory leadership does not do anything without the say so of the Americans.

Look at this way.. The Spanish say the request came from the Americans, because I have no doubt that the Americans asked the Spanish first, or/and asked to use Rota as a staging area to do the job. This was refused, so they had to bring in the Brits. Between the pillars of Hercules and Syria, the US has very little "base wise" to be able to do anything and are reliant on friendly nations. The ONLY nation that is very friendly with the US at the moment is the UK, so you have either Gib or Cyprus to do this at. Doing it at Cyprus puts you in range of Russian and Syrian military assets, so the only place this could be done is by Gib.
 
PeteEU said:
It pisses me off that the media have not picked up on this massive discrepancy.
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Either you are wrong, or every media outlet in the world is conspiring to protect Donald Trump regarding the Grace-1.

Occam's Razor.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Either you are wrong, or every media outlet in the world is conspiring to protect Donald Trump regarding the Grace-1.

Occam's Razor.
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I think it is more the Anglo-American media domination that is the problem. I don't think Trump even knows where Gib is so if anyone pushed the case it was Bolton.

Point is the English media and American have a bad history of believing government views versus supposed enemies and not questioning the validity of information from both sides. We saw it in the second Iraq war and since. As soon as national pride is at stake...the media fall in line.

Take this case. British and American media have not once questioned the party line about the boat being in British waters...not once. Anyone knowing the area, knows that British waters are small and easily avoided..

Or the lack of questioning how the Gib leader can request help in preventing sanction busting... I mean think about it, that would be like the mayor of New York ordering the sizing of a ship in international waters... The Mayor has no authority to sieze a boat in US waters let alone international.

I am afraid that we are heading to war yet again because of manipulation of the media and hence the people..

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
PeteEU said:
Take this case. British and American media have not once questioned the party line about the boat being in British waters...not once. Anyone knowing the area, knows that British waters are small and easily avoided..
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I did think about that and looked into it. That post is in this thread somewhere. It seems the Grace-1 Captain intended to take on supplies at the Port of Algeciras in Spain.

The ship was supposedly seized close to the Bay of Gibraltar/Algeciras, exactly where is unknown.

It should be possible to track her lat/long locations via satellite data if one has the initiative.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I did think about that and looked into it. That post is in this thread somewhere. It seems the Grace-1 Captain intended to take on supplies at the Port of Algeciras in Spain.

The ship was supposedly seized close to the Bay of Gibraltar/Algeciras, exactly where is unknown.

It should be possible to track her lat/long locations via satellite data if one has the initiative.
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Correct, but that is behind a paywall. Regardless the water where she was supposed to have been seized is disputed waters between Spain and the UK. There is certainly something fishy in the whole case.. the lack of reporting, the lack of confirmation and so on and so on. Not to mention why the hell they did it in the first place.

The irony is that the Iranians used the same tactic against British owned/used tankers.. and frankly if we are to believe the British, then we have to believe the Iranians on why they did it.. no?
 
PeteEU said:
United States seeks to seize the Iranian vessel in Gibraltar: newspaper - Reuters

So the tanker and crew were to be released but then the US DOJ petitioned to have the ship handed over....exposing the truth basically behind the whole story.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
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PeteEU:

It's interesting how the Reuters report could not uncover the US legal grounds for seizing the tanker as it has no case in anything but US law which America tries to impose extrajurisdictionally. The whole thing was a sham and basically state sponsered piracy from the get-go. Can someone flush John Bolton down the head, he stinks of conspiracy and complicity in this, so-far, comic opera.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
"The U.S. Department of Justice has applied to seize the Grace 1 on a number of allegations which are now being considered," the Gibraltar government said in a statement, adding that the matter would be reviewed by the court at 4 p.m. local time (10 a.m. ET).

Neither the USDoJ nor the government of Gibraltar would comment on the particulars of the US seize request.
 
Gibraltar frees held Iran oil tanker that U.S. sought to seize

The Gibraltar Chronicle newspaper reported there was no U.S. application before the court when a hearing on the Grace 1 resumed Thursday afternoon, quoting the court’s chief justice, Anthony Dudley. That allowed the ship to be freed. That’s a stark change from a morning hearing, which saw Gibraltar say the Justice Department sought to seize the vessel “on a number of allegations.”
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The Brits have finally done the right thing and Washington be damned. Good!

Now it's time to hold Iran's feet to the fire to release the tanker and crew they seized near Iran. This infantile tit for tat piratical statecraft has got to stop.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
The Brits have finally done the right thing and Washington be damned. Good!
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You obviously read only what you want to read. To wit....

The Gibraltar Chronicle newspaper reported there was no U.S. application before the court when a hearing on the Grace 1 resumed Thursday afternoon, quoting the court’s chief justice, Anthony Dudley. That allowed the ship to be freed. That’s a stark change from a morning hearing, which saw Gibraltar say the Justice Department sought to seize the vessel “on a number of allegations.”
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Gibraltar was apparently looking for an excuse to hold the tanker longer and tried to see if the US would jump at the bait, and when the time came could produce no seize-request from the US.
 
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