• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

WW2 picture, swastika and commie Muscovite red stars , Fake ? if not where and when it was taken ?

rocket88 said:
So Stalin conspired with the Nazis? What an interesting idea, that must be why Soviet armies fired on them
Click to expand...

Yes stalin did conspire with the nazis when russia and germany signed a nonaggression pact with each other and divvying up poland before germany invaded. If stalin did nothing when hitler invaded, stalin could have eastern poland...hitler eventually broke that pact.
 
Litwin said:
"the liberator" killed or deported to tundra´s hell 10% of population Western Belarus, and Western Ukraine. Germans literally saved Western Belarus, and Western Ukraine from koba´s death fabric. not my words but the locals say it , even today
Click to expand...

They "saved" them.....and then turned out to be far worse.
 
rocket88 said:
So Stalin conspired with the Nazis? What an interesting idea, that must be why Soviet armies fired on them
Click to expand...

Stalin was never fully trusting of Hitler, but they did decide to become "allies".

It was the Germans who broke the pact and it was the beginning of the end for the Nazi regime.

Had the Nazis waited until they had solidified their hold on Europe before starting a second front the war would have been different.

The Russians benefitted from the Germans believing they could defeat them before winter.

Napoleon made the same mistake. It is one thing to live in an area which hits 40 below zero and another to invade it.

Last year when the Siberian Russian permafrost melted, two lost French troops from Napoleons campaign were discovered.

100+ years as frozen meat.
 
Dick Tornado said:
Had the Nazis waited until they had solidified their hold on Europe before starting a second front the war would have been different.
Click to expand...

Waiting wasn't an option. Nazi Germany would've collapsed by then.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Waiting wasn't an option. Nazi Germany would've collapsed by then.
Click to expand...

Germany lost because of bad tactics.

If Hitler had not ignored his generals who warned him not to invade he would have had the troops and materials he lacked.

Instead he believed he could do no wrong.

He didn't capture and hold the Russian oil fields which would have been crucial to Germany's war efforts.

The Nazis didn't develop a long range bomber that could bomb the relocated Russian factories and fly home.

That resulted in vulnerable forward airfields being used. During the winter the planes became unusable in the cold.

When his code staff expressed a belief that the enigma machines they were using had been likely compromised, he dismissed the idea.

The Brits used the breaking of Germany's enigma code all the way back to the African war battles.

Mistakes were not just on the Germans side, America and the UK made plenty.
 
Tigerace117 said:
They "saved" them.....and then turned out to be far worse.
Click to expand...

not really, if you were not a Jew (Jews (Jewish partisans) with weapons had it better than local peasant who NKVD or Jewish partisans robbed, a good example village Drazhna ) you ´d have it ok , much much better than under Muscovite - commie occupation . man, it was CANNIBALISM IN BELARUS AND UKRAINE under Muscovite - commie occupation. the mothers in madness made soap from the own children

3 NKVD platoons and one Jewish platoon attacked Drazhna village in 1943
YouTube
YouTube

https://tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09668136.2014.957928?src=recsys&journalCode=ceas20
 
Litwin said:
not really, if you were not a Jew (Jews (Jewish partisans) with weapons had it better than local peasant who NKVD or Jewish partisans robbed, a good example village Drazhna ) you ´d have it ok , much much better than under Muscovite - commie occupation . man, it was CANNIBALISM IN BELARUS AND UKRAINE under Muscovite - commie occupation. the mothers in madness made soap from the own children

3 NKVD platoons and one Jewish platoon attacked Drazhna village in 1943
YouTube
YouTube

https://tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09668136.2014.957928?src=recsys&journalCode=ceas20
Click to expand...

No, the Jews did not "have it better" under the Nazis, who actively attempted to exterminate them. Where are you getting that crap? And no, the villagers did not have it better under the Nazis either, which is why ultimately most of them supported the partisans and the Red Army.

War crimes of the Wehrmacht - Wikipedia

Perhaps if you were a collaborator in the Baltic states you had it good under the Nazis, but no one else did.
 
Tigerace117 said:
No, the Jews did not "have it better" under the Nazis, who actively attempted to exterminate them. Where are you getting that crap? And no, the villagers did not have it better under the Nazis either, which is why ultimately most of them supported the partisans and the Red Army.

War crimes of the Wehrmacht - Wikipedia

Perhaps if you were a collaborator in the Baltic states you had it good under the Nazis, but no one else did.
Click to expand...

my grand mother lived under NKVD terror so called partisan terror ( people use term bandits ) , so dont try to tell me how was it , i am sure you have never been in eastern Europe.

this is a very typical case for NKVD terrorists during WW2 , Vassili Kononov - Wikipedia "Nine villagers were killed, including three women, one in the late stages of pregnancy who was burned alive. Buildings were burned as well.[3][9]" or yeh, Kononov burned alive a small Latgale (Belarusian ethnicity) Nazi in the stomach of just another Nazi , right?
 
Litwin said:
my grand mother lived under NKVD terror so called partisan terror ( people use term bandits ) , so dont try to tell me how was it , i am sure you have never been in eastern Europe.

this is a very typical case for NKVD terrorists during WW2 , Vassili Kononov - Wikipedia "Nine villagers were killed, including three women, one in the late stages of pregnancy who was burned alive. Buildings were burned as well.[3][9]" or yeh, Kononov burned alive a small Latgale (Belarusian ethnicity) Nazi in the stomach of just another Nazi , right?
Click to expand...

From your own article:

“next day, at six in the morning, the Germans, who Kononov suspected the villagers of aiding, burned and machine-gunned the barns. All 12 partisans, including the leader Major Chugunov, his wife Antonina and their 7-month-old son, were killed.[5][6]
On 27 May 1944, a detachment of the Soviet First Latvian Partisan Battalion led by Kononov staged a "counter operation" against the village of Mazie Bati. In this operation, nine villagers were accused of being the "German auxiliaries" (the Latvian armed resistance against the Soviet occupation of Latvia sided with the German invaders in 1941) responsible for the prior incident. Kononov's men were sent to capture the villagers pursuant to an ad-hoc Military Tribunal verdict.[7][8]”

“Kononov's former superior officer, later academician and Soviet functionary, Vilis Samsons, has questioned some of the First Latvian Partisan Battalion's wartime reports upon which the accusations against Kononov are based, alleging the description of the Mazie Bati operation was rife with factual errors and imprecisions.[26]”

“On 17 May 2001, Kononov was once again charged by the prosecutor's office following a new investigation. The deaths of six men were deemed justifiable, but the deaths of the three women were deemed an act of banditry, in violation of the law, but ultimately barred by statute of limitations.”

The simple fact of the matter is that the Nazis were far worse than even the NKVD, and calling partisans “terrorists” raises some.....interesting....questions about your sympathies.
 
Tigerace117 said:
From your own article:

“next day, at six in the morning, the Germans, who Kononov suspected the villagers of aiding, burned and machine-gunned the barns. All 12 partisans, including the leader Major Chugunov, his wife Antonina and their 7-month-old son, were killed.[5][6]
On 27 May 1944, a detachment of the Soviet First Latvian Partisan Battalion led by Kononov staged a "counter operation" against the village of Mazie Bati. In this operation, nine villagers were accused of being the "German auxiliaries" (the Latvian armed resistance against the Soviet occupation of Latvia sided with the German invaders in 1941) responsible for the prior incident. Kononov's men were sent to capture the villagers pursuant to an ad-hoc Military Tribunal verdict.[7][8]”

“Kononov's former superior officer, later academician and Soviet functionary, Vilis Samsons, has questioned some of the First Latvian Partisan Battalion's wartime reports upon which the accusations against Kononov are based, alleging the description of the Mazie Bati operation was rife with factual errors and imprecisions.[26]”

“On 17 May 2001, Kononov was once again charged by the prosecutor's office following a new investigation. The deaths of six men were deemed justifiable, but the deaths of the three women were deemed an act of banditry, in violation of the law, but ultimately barred by statute of limitations.”

The simple fact of the matter is that the Nazis were far worse than even the NKVD, and calling partisans “terrorists” raises some.....interesting....questions about your sympathies.
Click to expand...

you don't need to post kononov case , i know it very well. its great that your defend here NKVD actions in Latvia "Nine villagers were killed, including three women, one in the late stages of pregnancy who was burned alive."


"questions about your sympathies" on side of unarmed civilian people whats about your ? on Stalin´s side, right?

the "partisans" is construction appeared in ussr´s press only in 1943, before it koba´s propaganda used term "exterminator (istrebitel'nyye) NKVD platoons".

Yes “terrorists” according Latvian laws and USA´s, which never recognized ussr occupation of Latvia. so how we ´d call stalin´s NKVD´s saboteurs who terrorized the local population , mostly unarmed peasants ? if you have ever had any academical book about unconventional wars in the woods of eastern Europe, you´d know that the Germans have handled commie " partisans" without much problem , and the local population , school teachers , farmers, electricians, etc. have been primary targets for koba´s terror in all occupied east - European countries.


"Nazis were far worse than even the NKVD," No, i have no gradation for both totalitarian regimes, and their dogs , they are both evil . a good example :

"A gas van or gas wagon (Russian: душегубка (dushegubka); German: Gaswagen) was a vehicle reequipped as a mobile gas chamber. The gas van was invented in the Soviet Union in 1936, by Isay Berg, the head of the administrative and economic department of the NKVD of Moscow Oblast. The vehicle had an air-tight compartment for the intended victims, into which exhaust fumes were transmitted while the engine was running. The victims were gassed with carbon monoxide, resulting in death by carbon monoxide poisoning and suffocation. The gas van was used by the Soviet secret police in the 1930s.[2] During World War II Nazi Germany used gas vans on a large scale as a extermination method to murder inmates of asylums, Romani people, Jews, and prisoners in occupied Poland, Belarus, and Yugoslavia.[3][4]"
 
Litwin said:
you don't need to post kononov case , i know it very well. its great that your defend here NKVD actions in Latvia "Nine villagers were killed, including three women, one in the late stages of pregnancy who was burned alive."


"questions about your sympathies" on side of unarmed civilian people whats about your ? on Stalin´s side, right?

the "partisans" is construction appeared in ussr´s press only in 1943, before it koba´s propaganda used term "exterminator (istrebitel'nyye) NKVD platoons".

Yes “terrorists” according Latvian laws and USA´s, which never recognized ussr occupation of Latvia. so how we ´d call stalin´s NKVD´s saboteurs who terrorized the local population , mostly unarmed peasants ? if you have ever had any academical book about unconventional wars in the woods of eastern Europe, you´d know that the Germans have handled commie " partisans" without much problem , and the local population , school teachers , farmers, electricians, etc. have been primary targets for koba´s terror in all occupied east - European countries.


"Nazis were far worse than even the NKVD," No, i have no gradation for both totalitarian regimes, and their dogs , they are both evil . a good example :

"A gas van or gas wagon (Russian: душегубка (dushegubka); German: Gaswagen) was a vehicle reequipped as a mobile gas chamber. The gas van was invented in the Soviet Union in 1936, by Isay Berg, the head of the administrative and economic department of the NKVD of Moscow Oblast. The vehicle had an air-tight compartment for the intended victims, into which exhaust fumes were transmitted while the engine was running. The victims were gassed with carbon monoxide, resulting in death by carbon monoxide poisoning and suffocation. The gas van was used by the Soviet secret police in the 1930s.[2] During World War II Nazi Germany used gas vans on a large scale as a extermination method to murder inmates of asylums, Romani people, Jews, and prisoners in occupied Poland, Belarus, and Yugoslavia.[3][4]"
Click to expand...

1) The selective outrage is amusing, given that the Germans murdered a seven month old kid in the previous incident......and yet you handwaved it away.

2) The case literally stated that the killings of the male villagers were justifiable, so at most you have three cases you can scream about "NKVD terrorists".

3) Given that the villagers had apparently collaborated with the Germans......not exactly sure why you expected them to get off scot free for such actions.

4) Lithuania monument for 'Nazi collaborator' prompts diplomatic row - BBC News

Gee, let me guess.....you are a big fan of this guy :roll:

Uh.....no, the Germans didn't "handle partisans without a problem". For example, partisans had managed to retake control over much of Belarus by the time the country was liberated by the Red Army; in Russia itself

"In the Bryansk region, Soviet partisans controlled large areas behind the German lines. In the summer of 1942 they effectively held more than 14,000 square kilometers (5,405 square miles) with a population of over 200,000 people. Soviet partisans in the region were led by Oleksiy Fedorov, Alexander Saburov and others and numbered over 60,000 men.[citation needed] The Belgorod, Oryol, Kursk, Novgorod, Leningrad, Pskov and Smolensk regions also had significant partisan activity during the occupation period. In the Oryol and Smolensk regions partisans were led by Dmitry Medvedev.

Territories liberated or under partisan authority were important during the war. There were major partisan areas and zones in Leningrad, Kalinin, Smolensk, and Orel oblasts. In Kalinin Oblast, for example, the partisans held 7,000 km2. Partisan zones and areas made it difficult for the German-led occupation forces to carry out re-groupings and pinned down a considerable portion of their forces. During offensives by Soviet troops, German-led forces were often unable to organize strong defenses in the partisan zones. As a result, the German forces was forced to group forces only along the roads. Partisan areas were frequently used by regular Soviet troops to reach the flanks and rear of German groupings rapidly, to drop (land) airborne forces, and to disrupt organized enemy withdrawal.[43]"

"According to German estimates, in August 1941, 10 per cent of the Nazi rear area was full of with Soviet partisans. By October 1942 this figure had risen to 75 per cent, and by the autumn of the same year, fully 10 per cent of all German field divisions in Russia were engaged in fighting partisans. [47]"

Soviet partisans - Wikipedia
 
Litwin said:
you don't need to post kononov case , i know it very well. its great that your defend here NKVD actions in Latvia "Nine villagers were killed, including three women, one in the late stages of pregnancy who was burned alive."


"questions about your sympathies" on side of unarmed civilian people whats about your ? on Stalin´s side, right?

the "partisans" is construction appeared in ussr´s press only in 1943, before it koba´s propaganda used term "exterminator (istrebitel'nyye) NKVD platoons".

Yes “terrorists” according Latvian laws and USA´s, which never recognized ussr occupation of Latvia. so how we ´d call stalin´s NKVD´s saboteurs who terrorized the local population , mostly unarmed peasants ? if you have ever had any academical book about unconventional wars in the woods of eastern Europe, you´d know that the Germans have handled commie " partisans" without much problem , and the local population , school teachers , farmers, electricians, etc. have been primary targets for koba´s terror in all occupied east - European countries.


"Nazis were far worse than even the NKVD," No, i have no gradation for both totalitarian regimes, and their dogs , they are both evil . a good example :

"A gas van or gas wagon (Russian: душегубка (dushegubka); German: Gaswagen) was a vehicle reequipped as a mobile gas chamber. The gas van was invented in the Soviet Union in 1936, by Isay Berg, the head of the administrative and economic department of the NKVD of Moscow Oblast. The vehicle had an air-tight compartment for the intended victims, into which exhaust fumes were transmitted while the engine was running. The victims were gassed with carbon monoxide, resulting in death by carbon monoxide poisoning and suffocation. The gas van was used by the Soviet secret police in the 1930s.[2] During World War II Nazi Germany used gas vans on a large scale as a extermination method to murder inmates of asylums, Romani people, Jews, and prisoners in occupied Poland, Belarus, and Yugoslavia.[3][4]"
Click to expand...

So no, the Soviet partisans fighting against the Nazis and their collaborators were not, in fact, "terrorists".
 
Tigerace117 said:
So no, the Soviet partisans fighting against the Nazis and their collaborators were not, in fact, "terrorists".
Click to expand...

Some were. They also murdered Jews they found hiding in the forests.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom