UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Rogue Valley · Jun 10, 2019

PoS said:
According to an article Ive read lawyers in the UK government have advised that the country is not obligated in any way to pay for this divorce bill the moment it leaves the bloc.

Boris Johnson to EU: I won't pay unless deal improved

Johnson's intent here is to use the divorce payment as a form of blackmail to force better Brexit terms from the EU.

Something like Trump using the government shutdown as blackmail to obtain the Congressional funding for his vanity wall.

Everything you need to know about the Brexit “divorce bill”

Infinite Chaos · Jun 10, 2019

PoS said:
Defaulting on long term infrastructure projects because you are leaving the union is not the same as say defaulting on loans that benefit you directly. Any idiot can see that this is just a political stunt by the EU since paying for these projects will no longer benefit the UK directly, so a change is needed in the Brexit agreement. Boris is correct.

A default is a default. There really isn't much more to it than that. Credit ratings agencies will set the financial penalties the UK pays and they may well end up costing more than £39billion in high interest rates.

Infinite Chaos · Jun 10, 2019

Rexedgar said:
Who do the Northern Irish have a beef with? The rest of Ireland?

Brexit in Northern Ireland is different from the rest of the UK. A lot of the catholics voters wish to remain - partly because Eire remains and that is one way of uniting Ireland. The protestants tend to see staying with whatever firstly maintains the union and second their local interests as primary.
Then the whole issue of the border and tariff controls - an open border is simply a huge backdoor to illegal cheap imports to the EU and the EU can't accept this otherwise what's the point of a trade zone? The other problem is that a closed border could mean troops on either side and that just gets the local militants on both sides up in arms.

Boris and a couple of others have suggested electronic tags / just having an open border or other ways to keep track of imports and exports but if there is a cost disparity between UK and EU taxes / prices then smugglers will take advantage and that just sets more problems off. Some in the ERG (Rees Mogg in particular) speak smoothly for his followers about the technicalities of electronic customs tracking but that just completely ignores that smugglers will do what they want and what is financially viable.

Rogue Valley said:
~ Johnson's intent here is to use the divorce payment as a form of blackmail to force better Brexit terms from the EU.

If I really, Boris promised that German car manufacturers would march Angela Merkel to signing a quick deal and he's a huge advocate of we'll have our cake and eat it. He's a renowned liar but he is unlikely to blackmail the EU and he knows it. His statements play to the same people who absolutely believed him when he lied about the £350million a week on that big Brexit bus.

PeteEU · Jun 10, 2019

Rexedgar said:
Who do the Northern Irish have a beef with? The rest of Ireland?

The pro British unionists DUP has wanted to continue the war with the IRA and the Catholics forever. They were against the peace deal, aka the Good Friday Agreement, and have been behind (IMO) the failure of creating a government in Northern Ireland, and that of course means that NI in fact is governed from London... Since the DUP They have held the Tory party by the balls ever since the last election and are the reason for the problems. Oh did I mention that the DUP are even more crazy Christian than the Irish? They almost make the American Taliban look sane.. almost.

The logical way of dealing with this, was to have Northern Ireland remain in the customs union, and use the Irish Sea as the financial border between the UK and EU. But nooo, the Tories hardcore Brexit people say no to this because you know, they want a hardcore Brexit because of personal financial gains and of course the "EMPIRE" excuse helps. The DUP does not want it, because that would put them closer to Ireland than the UK and all that even though it would not... and in the mean time the rest of the population has to suffer to this stupidity.

Chagos · Jun 10, 2019

Rexedgar said:
Who do the Northern Irish have a beef with?

generally speaking (not to pre-empt Pete here) it's the DUP.

That party of pre-medieval troglodytes that May had to suck up to in order that the Tories still hold parliament. The very same party that opposed the Good Friday agreement of 1999 and is still butt hurt at not having been able to prevent it.

Were it not for that agreement (power sharing with Sinn Fein) they wouldn't even be in Stormont (N.Ireland's executive).

As things stand today, having fallen out with Sinn Fein (or Sinn Fein with them) N: Ireland doesn't even have an own government, currently-

The rest of Ireland?

. That too.

On the premise that the Republic is always trying to undermine Protestant control of N. Ireland in favor of Catholics taking over.

Well, the Republic really doesn't have to do anything in that respect, changing demographics in N.Ireland will be all it takes. Once achieved, a N. Ireland Catholic majority can seek a united Ireland and probably will.

Rogue Valley · Jun 10, 2019

Infinite Chaos said:
If I really, Boris promised that German car manufacturers would march Angela Merkel to signing a quick deal and he's a huge advocate of we'll have our cake and eat it. He's a renowned liar but he is unlikely to blackmail the EU and he knows it. His statements play to the same people who absolutely believed him when he lied about the £350million a week on that big Brexit bus.

Trump tried his hand at bully tactics with his 35 day government shutdown, despite knowing that Nancy Pelosi owned the high-ground and the power leverage.

He did it anyway, primarily to placate his restless support base. Success wasn't the point. A display of intransigence and defiance was paramount in his mind.

Trumps gambit cost the US economy $11 billion, including a permanent $3 billion loss.

Personally, I believe BoJo is yanking some EU chains. However, nothing ventured is nothing gained.

PeteEU · Jun 10, 2019

Rogue Valley said:
Trump tried his hand at bully tactics with his 35 day government shutdown, despite knowing that Nancy Pelosi owned the high-ground and the power leverage.

He did it anyway, primarily to placate his restless support base. Success wasn't the point. A display of intransigence and defiance was paramount in his mind.

Trumps gambit cost the US economy $11 billion, including a permanent $3 billion loss.

Personally, I believe BoJo is yanking some EU chains. However, nothing ventured is nothing gained.

More like Boris is trying to get elected by the Tory Party at all costs. Once he is in nr. 10, then his tune will change since reality will hit ad his excuse will be to blame others. I am guessing he will blame the international court and the EU and try to pull the UK out of the court as well.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk

PoS · Jun 11, 2019

Infinite Chaos said:
A default is a default. There really isn't much more to it than that. Credit ratings agencies will set the financial penalties the UK pays and they may well end up costing more than £39billion in high interest rates.

No. There's defaults that cant be paid because a country has no funds, and there are others that arent paid because of political disagreements. Rating agencies can tell the difference.

Rogue Valley said:
Boris Johnson to EU: I won't pay unless deal improved

Johnson's intent here is to use the divorce payment as a form of blackmail to force better Brexit terms from the EU.

Something like Trump using the government shutdown as blackmail to obtain the Congressional funding for his vanity wall.

Everything you need to know about the Brexit “divorce bill”

Boris is putting the UK first and not appeasing the EU, unlike what May did. I have no problem with that.

PeteEU said:
LOL you live in a freaking different universe.

1) The UK-US relationship is fully dependent on what the US wants. The UK will be a vassal state of the US if not worse if it moves even more towards the US.

LOL complete hyperbole. But then again we all know how much you hate America, so this isnt anything new.

2) By not paying the divorce bill, the UK will become untrustable in the financial markets and politically. That will matter and you even trying to gloss over it, shows how little you know and how biased you are.

The EU may complain, but the UK's credit will be good everywhere else.

3) Calling the EU spineless and insulting 27 nations and 500 million people is pathetic.

Its true though. Germany runs the EU, and all the rest are either small fry or wastrels (like PIGS).

When Trump announced tariffs on German cars, Merkel immediately capitulated. I predict the same thing will happen if Boris is elected PM and plays hardball.

Infinite Chaos · Jun 11, 2019

PoS said:
No. There's defaults that cant be paid because a country has no funds, and there are others that arent paid because of political disagreements. Rating agencies can tell the difference.

For example? What other country had defaulted due to political disagreement and not had its rating negatively affected?

PoS said:
~ Boris is putting the UK first and not appeasing the EU, unlike what May did. I have no problem with that.

For god's sake, all the Brexiteers have been "out-Brexiting" each other to appeal to their hard core pensioner support. BoJo is doing exactly the same.

PoS said:
~ LOL complete hyperbole. But then again we all know how much you hate America, so this isnt anything new.

Try and actually discuss what he said. Is the UK affected by US politics or not? The US is already our biggest individual trading partner by US$64.4 billion and if trade soured it would hurt (not as much as spiking the EU trade)

PoS said:
~ The EU may complain, but the UK's credit will be good everywhere else.

And who else buys nearly half our exports? You have to be posting from Russia to want us to do this.

PoS said:
~ When Trump announced tariffs on German cars, Merkel immediately capitulated. I predict the same thing will happen if Boris is elected PM and plays hardball.

Funny, I thought Trump's threats are still ongoing and in turn the EU has threatened swift response.

Infinite Chaos · Jun 11, 2019

Rogue Valley said:
~ primarily to placate his restless support base. Success wasn't the point. A display of intransigence and defiance was paramount in his mind.

Trumps gambit cost the US economy $11 billion, including a permanent $3 billion loss ~

Exactly what is happening with Bojo and several other Brexiteers who are trying to become PM.

Aristaeus · Jun 11, 2019

PoS said:
No. There's defaults that cant be paid because a country has no funds, and there are others that arent paid because of political disagreements. Rating agencies can tell the difference.

Boris is putting the UK first and not appeasing the EU, unlike what May did. I have no problem with that.

LOL complete hyperbole. But then again we all know how much you hate America, so this isnt anything new.

The EU may complain, but the UK's credit will be good everywhere else.

Its true though. Germany runs the EU, and all the rest are either small fry or wastrels (like PIGS).

When Trump announced tariffs on German cars, Merkel immediately capitulated. I predict the same thing will happen if Boris is elected PM and plays hardball.

The only thing Boris Johnson puts first is himself.

Your knowledge of UK politics is lacking.

Snazzy · Jun 11, 2019

Infinite Chaos said:
Funny, I thought Trump's threats are still ongoing and in turn the EU has threatened swift response.

^ What he said.

A swift response on tarifs from the EU would hurt the UK hugely.

Prior to Trump's threats ramping up any tarifs with Germany, and his tarif war with China, he said "trade wars are easy to win", which is most probably true if you're the USA, NOT so easy if you're the UK.

If you're going to pick a fight, you need to be in a favorable position to begin with - or, why else even bother?

A bloody nose is one thing - nye on decapitation is another.

marke · Jun 11, 2019

Rogue Valley said:
UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Sounds like BoJo took a few courses at the Donald J. Trump School of Transactional Diplomacy.

Lefties don't mind involving themselves in every nation where good sense edges out loony tune liberalism, howling at the moon over every setback to their one world godless agenda.

PeteEU · Jun 11, 2019

PoS said:
No. There's defaults that cant be paid because a country has no funds, and there are others that arent paid because of political disagreements. Rating agencies can tell the difference.

You have read the statements from the ratings agencies right? That a refusal of paying the debt, would negatively impact the rating on the UK ON TOP of the impact a hard Brexit would have..

LOL complete hyperbole. But then again we all know how much you hate America, so this isnt anything new.

Hyperhole? Are you seriously saying that a Trump administration will give the UK a very favourable trade deal that hurts American business? Trump will want access to large parts of the UK economy that US companies dont have now, and that would require a lowering of standards across the board and allowing US companies access to things like the NHS. The UK would get next to nothing out of it, because news flash... the UK is not an export economy and those products that they do make, can easily be moved to other countries.. which is happening right now! Stop being in denial.... UK car manufacturing fell 26% last month... and that is on top of other falls. The Car industry is the 2nd or 3rd biggest employer in the UK..

The EU may complain, but the UK's credit will be good everywhere else.

Oh yea, like it has worked for other countries that have tried a similar thing.... and of course the ratings agencies disagree with you.

Its true though. Germany runs the EU, and all the rest are either small fry or wastrels (like PIGS).

Sigh, without the EU, Germany would STILL be the dominant economy in Europe like it has been since 1870 and arguably before. Only time it was not, was right after WW1 and WW2, but it only took them half a decade to regain the nr. 1 position. So I do not know why you see it as a negative, as it has been a stable thing for over 100 years easily and before that, it was the French that dominated the European economy.

When Trump announced tariffs on German cars, Merkel immediately capitulated. I predict the same thing will happen if Boris is elected PM and plays hardball.

Eh? what on earth are you babbling about? No such thing happened and you know it. Your love for anything Trump and America is seriously clouding your judgement and view of the world as usual. The US threatened such tariffs, and the EU threatened tariffs the other way and Trump caved by delaying it for 6 months while negotiations went on.. If anything Trump has caved time and time again in negotiations with other countries, Mexico being the latest.

Buzz62 · Jun 11, 2019

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Just another Fletch gaslighting routine. Don't feed it, it only grows into something gassier.

Huh...I don't see a problem here either. Why doesn't someone who thinks they know, explain?

I was in Prague when the EU began imposing its will on the Czechs.
Not only was there an immediate flood of Polish workers...who tended to crap in corners of the buildings they were working on and cover it with news print...but there was and remains, a long list of stupid EU directives. For instance, the Czechs make a sweet rum called Tuzemak. It was, for a long long time, Ceske Rum. The EU decided that Ceske Rum could no longer be labeled as "rum". Through the EU, Germany has forced products and asinine regulations on all the "new" members. From urinals to food products, the EU's primary goal is to force member states to adhere to regulations and products that drive prices up and heavily favor German/EU interests alone, with no regard at all for national traditions and cost of living. The EU "refugee" demands were simply the last straw, in a mountain of hay heaped on the backs of Czech people.

In short...the EU is a gathering of self-imposed dictators and pompous asses who have no regard for anything but their own power-base. They need to be stopped immediately before they actually have a military. Man Europe...don't give guns to pompous asses. That would be a very bad idea.

But as Fletch has asked...what's the problem? Can anyone actually defend this gaggle of bastards?

PoS · Jun 11, 2019

Re: UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

Aristaeus said:
The only thing Boris Johnson puts first is himself.

Your knowledge of UK politics is lacking.

LOL oh look, a triusm- every politician puts themselves first. Anyone who doesnt think so isnt very smart.

PeteEU said:
You have read the statements from the ratings agencies right? That a refusal of paying the debt, would negatively impact the rating on the UK ON TOP of the impact a hard Brexit would have..

Wrong, as usual.

Infinite Chaos said:
For example? What other country had defaulted due to political disagreement and not had its rating negatively affected?

Legal hazards but no default seen if Britain doesn't pay Brexit bill - Reuters

Britain’s withholding of 39 billion pounds ($50 bln) it promised the EU as part of its original Brexit plan would not constitute a default in the eyes of credit ratings agencies, but lawyers said it could lead to international court battles.

“Our ratings speak to commercial debt obligations,” S&P’s primary analyst for the UK, Aarti Sakhuja, told Reuters. “The UK not paying the 39 billion pound bill would therefore not constitute a sovereign default under our methodology.”

A spokesman for Fitch said it would not be a default in its view either. Moody’s took a similar approach.

Boris is on good ground here. You people hate it just because you dont like him, but he is what the UK needs right now- a strong competent leader.

Buzz62 · Jun 11, 2019

Snazzy said:
^ What he said.

A swift response on tarifs from the EU would hurt the UK hugely.

Prior to Trump's threats ramping up any tarifs with Germany, and his tarif war with China, he said "trade wars are easy to win", which is most probably true if you're the USA, NOT so easy if you're the UK.

If you're going to pick a fight, you need to be in a favorable position to begin with - or, why else even bother?

A bloody nose is one thing - nye on decapitation is another.

Really? You think the UK would suffer visibly from Brexit? How?

The UK, being an island, has a long history of being self sufficient. They are, contrary to what some believe, a remarkably resilient and proud people. Couple that with the probability that...with the EU is slowly losing its grip on many of its member states, business as usual will likely resume between many European states and Britain.

I don't see any realistic down side here.

Snazzy · Jun 11, 2019

Buzz62 said:
Really? You think the UK would suffer visibly from Brexit? How?.

Perhaps you misinterpreted my post, although admittedly I did misinterpret IC's post, although the outcome would remain the same for the UK.

I said the UK would suffer if it tried to flex its muscles with any tarifs with the EU, resulting in the EU's swift response.

Whether the UK would suffer visibly from Brexit is yet to be seen, pending whatever agreement is ultimately reached.

Buzz62 · Jun 11, 2019

Snazzy said:
Perhaps you misinterpreted my post, although admittedly I did misinterpret IC's post, although the outcome would remain the same for the UK.

I said the UK would suffer if it tried to flex its muscles with any tarifs with the EU, resulting in the EU's swift response.

Whether the UK would suffer visibly from Brexit is yet to be seen, pending whatever agreement is ultimately reached.

OK my bad. Now...how exactly do you figure the UK not paying the EU, would hurt the UK?
Do you really think EU sanctions will either be adhered to by all EU states, or even hurt the UK in any measurable fashion, when weighed against the savings?

The EU is...as I said...a gaggle of pompous asses who will act like they alone know what's best for the UK. They are now getting a rude awakening by a number of states. The UK doesn't need the EU...its the opposite.

Snazzy · Jun 11, 2019

Buzz62 said:
Do you really think EU sanctions will either be adhered to by all EU states, or even hurt the UK in any measurable fashion, when weighed against the savings?

Sanctions HAVE to be adhered to by ALL member states.

The EU acts as a block, all for one and one for all. It's part of the deal when you sign up for the club.

Buzz62 · Jun 11, 2019

Snazzy said:
Sanctions HAVE to be adhered to by ALL member states.

The EU acts as a block, all for one and one for all. It's part of the deal when you sign up for the club.

:lamo
If you really think that...you know nothing about Europe or Europeans.
But hey...tell this silly idea to Italy, Austria, Hungary, Czech, etc...etc...

Oh and don't forget to make sure the Spanish are down for these rules. Because they'll be sailing merchant ships up the coast to England before you can say, "all for one and one for all".
:lamo

Chagos · Jun 11, 2019

Buzz62 said:
:lamo
If you really think that...you know nothing about Europe or Europeans.
But hey...tell this silly idea to Italy, Austria, Hungary, Czech, etc...etc...

Oh and don't forget to make sure the Spanish are down for these rules. Because they'll be sailing merchant ships up the coast to England before you can say, "all for one and one for all".
:lamo

Thanks for demonstrating, yet again, how utterly ignorant you are of Europe in general and its individual countries in particular. With your Spanish example being particularly amusing.

Thus demonstrating to any thinking person how unworthy of any further response your utterings are here, outside of their comedy value.

Snazzy · Jun 11, 2019

Buzz62 said:
:lamo
If you really think that...you know nothing about Europe or Europeans.
But hey...tell this silly idea to Italy, Austria, Hungary, Czech, etc...etc...

Oh and don't forget to make sure the Spanish are down for these rules. Because they'll be sailing merchant ships up the coast to England before you can say, "all for one and one for all".
:lamo

You've lost me slightly.

Any disputes within the EU between member states are first resolved amicably if possible - failing that the next step is the EU court in Kirchberg.

The outcome will result in sanctions if the loser doesn't adhere to the court's decision.

Care to supply any cases where Italy, Austria, Hungary, Czech, etc...etc..., or Spain for that matter have been tried in Kirchberg, lost their case and been punished with sanctions, and the other member states have disregarded those sanctions?

Chagos · Jun 11, 2019

Snazzy said:
You've lost me slightly.

Any disputes within the EU between member states are first resolved amicably if possible - failing that the next step is the EU court in Kirchberg.

The outcome will result in sanctions if the loser doesn't adhere to the court's decision.

Care to supply any cases where Italy, Austria, Hungary, Czech, etc...etc..., or Spain for that matter have been tried in Kirchberg, lost their case and been punished with sanctions, and the other member states have disregarded those sanctions?

To wit: Italy is currently working feverishly (and not for the first time either) to avoid being taken to court over its breach of previously agreed deficit limits (debt increase).

Any poster here that claims to be even remotely in the know over the EU would know that as well.

But then such silly rants as the one you respond to are not really based on knowledge. They're more driven to address the poster's own blood pressure, irrespective of how silly that makes him look.

Buzz62 · Jun 11, 2019

Chagos said:
Thanks for demonstrating, yet again, how utterly ignorant you are of Europe in general and its individual countries in particular. With your Spanish example being particularly amusing.

Thus demonstrating to any thinking person how unworthy of any further response your utterings are here, outside of their comedy value.

And yet...YOU never say anything of value.
However...were you to speak below the opening of a air balloon, I bet you could make it float.

UK’s Johnson threatens to withhold $50 billion Brexit payment

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Preferred 2nd person pronoun: thou

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