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Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges

Higgins86

Higgins86

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Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges - BBC News


former British soldier faces murder charges over the killing of two people on Bloody Sunday in Londonderry in 1972.

The Public Prosecution Service said there was enough evidence to prosecute Soldier F for the murders of James Wray and William McKinney.

The sole prosecution is seen as a "terrible disappointment" by some of the families of the 13 people killed.



Obviously a very sensitive subject in Ireland and the UK, I am really torn on this if I'm honest. Whilst I recongnise the families wanting justice for what they see as murder I do also see it as a bit of a double standard. Numerous IRA prisoners and wanted IRA members were allowed to walk away scott free after the good Friday agreement. You have had and still have ex IRA members in positions of political power in Northern Ireland and yet you want to open old wounds by charging one man for something that happened in a war zone essentially.
 
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Higgins86 said:
Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges - BBC News


former British soldier faces murder charges over the killing of two people on Bloody Sunday in Londonderry in 1972.

The Public Prosecution Service said there was enough evidence to prosecute Soldier F for the murders of James Wray and William McKinney.

The sole prosecution is seen as a "terrible disappointment" by some of the families of the 13 people killed.



Obviously a very sensitive subject in Ireland and the UK, I am really torn on this if I'm honest. Whilst I recongnise the families wanting justice for what they see as murder I do also see it as a bit of a double standard. Numerous IRA prisoners and wanted IRA members were allowed to walk away scott free after the good Friday agreement. You have had and still have ex IRA members in positions of political power in Northern Ireland and yet you want to open old wounds my charging one man for something that happened in a war zone essentially.
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Somewhat akin to charging an 85 year old man for being a teenage concentration camp guard. You want to say justice must be served but it just feels like reopening a wound that was nearly healed.

edit- That said, officers in charge that day should have consequences. In Canada a regiment was disbanded for the torture death of one Somalian teenager. The Para's are still active.
 
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Grand Mal said:
Somewhat akin to charging an 85 year old man for being a teenage concentration camp guard. You want to say justice must be served but it just feels like reopening a wound that was nearly healed.

edit- That said, officers in charge that day should have consequences. In Canada a regiment was disbanded for the torture death of one Somalian teenager. The Para's are still active.
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Was it really nearly healed? I think for the Northern Irish families and friends of those killed it is never almost healed until some justice has been handed out.
 
Peter King said:
Was it really nearly healed? I think for the Northern Irish families and friends of those killed it is never almost healed until some justice has been handed out.
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That was the point of the Good Friday agreement though, let old dogs lie. People also forget that the Para's were under a lot of stress and were extremely jumpy due to the casualties and constant attacks they had endured in the months running up to Bloody Sunday, 814 British army soldiers died in Operation Banner.
 
Higgins86 said:
That was the point of the Good Friday agreement though, let old dogs lie. People also forget that the Para's were under a lot of stress and were extremely jumpy due to the casualties and constant attacks they had endured in the months running up to Bloody Sunday, 814 British army soldiers died in Operation Banner.
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I think good Friday was more an agreement to let the sectarian violence end and to let that stuff end but Bloody Sunday was what some say was a crime from the army to unarmed protestors. I think this should have been properly investigated years and years ago.
 
Peter King said:
I think good Friday was more an agreement to let the sectarian violence end and to let that stuff end but Bloody Sunday was what some say was a crime from the army to unarmed protestors. I think this should have been properly investigated years and years ago.
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It should have been investigated better at the time agreed but to drag it up now just seems redundant. I mean its not like the RUC can chase up old IRA leads is it?
 
You set a bunch of 18-year old, 19year old or even younger kids loose with automatic weapons in a hostile environment (as surely it must have been perceived), and YOU are responsible.

Sure enough, part of the blame goes to whoever kills for going against received training, but I'm getting tired of this hype over "F" having been a cold-blooded murderer.

That's not what you are at that age, short of being a total sociopath anyway. In fact it's not what you are at any age, unless the previous caveat is applied.

I most certainly feel for the families and sympathize over their loss(es) but the demand for justice in cases like these is a hollow cry. Because what sort of justice is to be gained????

One of the prime stipulations that made GFA work was that a line be drawn. Not perfect for sure, but sensible.
 
Grand Mal said:
Somewhat akin to charging an 85 year old man for being a teenage concentration camp guard. You want to say justice must be served but it just feels like reopening a wound that was nearly healed.

edit- That said, officers in charge that day should have consequences. In Canada a regiment was disbanded for the torture death of one Somalian teenager. The Para's are still active.
Click to expand...

Not quite. what is happening is that British squaddies have been hauled through court as it seems they are not protected by the Good Friday Agreement. the IRA and the Unionist forces who did far worse are untouchable even though operating in the same sphere and at the same time.

Having been there, having faced the solid hate our unit attracted (because of what happened in 1972) I am still deeply touched by what we faced. We didn't go in to deliberately kill however I know many of our own who were deliberately targeted and killed.

I don't see why one of ours have to face the courts over 40 years later when others on the other side are protected and will never face justice for what they did.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Not quite. what is happening is that British squaddies have been hauled through court as it seems they are not protected by the Good Friday Agreement. the IRA and the Unionist forces who did far worse are untouchable even though operating in the same sphere and at the same time.

Having been there, having faced the solid hate our unit attracted (because of what happened in 1972) I am still deeply touched by what we faced. We didn't go in to deliberately kill however I know many of our own who were deliberately targeted and killed.

I don't see why one of ours have to face the courts over 40 years later when others on the other side are protected and will never face justice for what they did.
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Always forget you deployed over there IC. Just the one tour? Did Paul deploy as well?
 
Higgins86 said:
Always forget you deployed over there IC. Just the one tour? Did Paul deploy as well?
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Just the one tour there. One of the worst places on earth for a non-white soldier and it led to my leaving the forces. Strange to think any foreign war zone would have been a "friendlier" place to be.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Just the one tour there. One of the worst places on earth for a non-white soldier and it led to my leaving the forces. Strange to think any foreign war zone would have been a "friendlier" place to be.
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Was the racism more from the Catholics or both sides?
 
Peter King said:
I think good Friday was more an agreement to let the sectarian violence end and to let that stuff end but Bloody Sunday was what some say was a crime from the army to unarmed protestors. I think this should have been properly investigated years and years ago.
Click to expand...

Dragging some old guy through the courts is a despicable token effort, at justice especially when 10s of IRA terrorist were given complete pardons in the name of peace.
 
Higgins86 said:
Always forget you deployed over there IC. Just the one tour? Did Paul deploy as well?
Click to expand...

Yes. Had a relatively lively tour (two guys shot and injured) numerous bouts of violence on the streets. Run of the mill stuff, at that time.
 
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Higgins86 said:
Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges - BBC News


former British soldier faces murder charges over the killing of two people on Bloody Sunday in Londonderry in 1972.

The Public Prosecution Service said there was enough evidence to prosecute Soldier F for the murders of James Wray and William McKinney.

The sole prosecution is seen as a "terrible disappointment" by some of the families of the 13 people killed.



Obviously a very sensitive subject in Ireland and the UK, I am really torn on this if I'm honest. Whilst I recongnise the families wanting justice for what they see as murder I do also see it as a bit of a double standard. Numerous IRA prisoners and wanted IRA members were allowed to walk away scott free after the good Friday agreement. You have had and still have ex IRA members in positions of political power in Northern Ireland and yet you want to open old wounds by charging one man for something that happened in a war zone essentially.
Click to expand...

It goes all the way back to the year 1169.

The gift that keeps on giving.

When you brutalize a people for so long......you get factions like the IRA.

It still amazes me how the people in the UK dismiss their own atrocities while claiming the IRA terrorists.

Suck it up and move on.
 
RetiredUSN said:
It goes all the way back to the year 1169.

The gift that keeps on giving.

When you brutalize a people for so long......you get factions like the IRA.

It still amazes me how the people in the UK dismiss their own atrocities while claiming the IRA terrorists.

Suck it up and move on.
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We have moved on it’s the Irish that are pressing for charges.


Also it’s that’s rich coming from an American. Enjoy your Turkey this thanksgiving lol.
 
Higgins86 said:
We have moved on it’s the Irish that are pressing for charges.


Also it’s that’s rich coming from an American. Enjoy your Turkey this thanksgiving lol.
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Good for the Irish!

The Canadians and Euro's love pointing out the warts on America.

I'm pointing out yours, while you are whining about the Irish being petty, and now you can't handle it. :roll:
 
RetiredUSN said:
It goes all the way back to the year 1169.

The gift that keeps on giving.

When you brutalize a people for so long......you get factions like the IRA.

It still amazes me how the people in the UK dismiss their own atrocities while claiming the IRA terrorists.

Suck it up and move on.
Click to expand...

Or when terrorist have big financial backers in places like America. Because we all know, you all gotta have a bit of Irish in you, to be an American. But of course, support for terrorist fell out of favour post 9/11.
 
gunner said:
Or when terrorist have big financial backers in places like America. Because we all know, you all gotta have a bit of Irish in you, to be an American. But of course, support for terrorist fell out of favour post 9/11.
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Sorry..... your country lost any credibility on the Irish issue, especially after colonizing and brutalizing many, many, many countries for hundreds of years.
 
As a practical matter I understand the societal need to punish people for such crimes even after 4 decades. We don't want to feel like there is an expiration date on justice for our most serious crimes.

But philosophically? After 40 years you aren't punishing the same person who committed the crime. Hell, I am in my forties and the only thing I have in common with me in my 20s is we look similar and I share some of his memories, though not most of them as they have faded or disappeared with time. 20-year-old me is long dead and yet I am left suffering from his mistakes and benefiting from his accomplishments. I am as critical of young me's decisions and choices as I am a stranger's. More so, even.

Oh well, that is just me philosophizing, I realize the justice system doesn't have that kind of luxury.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Sorry..... your country lost any credibility on the Irish issue, especially after colonizing and brutalizing many, many, many countries for hundreds of years.
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No running from our past here. Sadly, the US is more than happy to carry the mantle.
 
gunner said:
No running from our past here. Sadly, the US is more than happy to carry the mantle.
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Still trying to make a argument huh?

When will the UK make reparations for the resources they stole from almost 200 countries, while invading like around 175 of of them.

How many countries does the USA give assistance to? Care to answer this?

Get back to me when the US approaches that 200 country colonization mark.
 
gunner said:
Or when terrorist have big financial backers in places like America. Because we all know, you all gotta have a bit of Irish in you, to be an American. But of course, support for terrorist fell out of favour post 9/11.
Click to expand...

They weren’t terrorists in 9/11. They were freedom fighters responding to American aggression in the Middle East? ;)
 
Higgins86 said:
Was the racism more from the Catholics or both sides?
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Got to a point I couldn't tell which side. Not for nothing however does Nick Griffin and his old BNP have a lot of support in Northern Ireland. They could always get a large crowd when they went to speak.
 
RetiredUSN said:
~ When will the UK make reparations for the resources they stole from ~
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Remind me how your country was built? You're on a slippery slope if you start arguing about reparations.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Remind me how your country was built? You're on a slippery slope if you start arguing about reparations.
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Stop whining about the Irish if you cannot handle the truth.

You and your cohort started playing the "whataboutism" game in which I am quite obliged to point out.
 
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