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Third suspect in Skripal poisoning is Russian GRU agent: Bellingcat

Fledermaus said:
EVIDENCE this is true?
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You still haven't managed to answer my question about why the UK has not brought charges.


I assume it's because it doesn't actually have any evidence sufficient to stand up to scrutiny in court.


Much easier to leak mis-information to a willing Russia hating media.
 
DaveFagan said:
Not a uniquely Russian nerve agent. College chem labs can make it. Many weapons labs have made it including Porton Down, 8 miles from Salisbury.
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The Novichiok (pronounced NO-WE-SHOCK) nerve agents were developed first in Russia after the signing of global treaties banning most known nerve agents such as sarin, soman, tabun, VX, etc, so they were never on any official list of proscribed chemicals. Designed as binary weapons, the agents consisted of 2 harmless chemicals plus a catalyst & a fluorinating agent then were only deadly when mixed & allowed to combine. Lists of the many compounds belonging to this family were subsequently published & the Brits & the U.S. made them for lab scale evaluation.

Making these in a typical college lab (I have a B.S. in chemistry) would mean a quick death. The necessary equipment for preparing the active compounds are not found in college chem labs.
 
DaveFagan said:
Not a uniquely Russian nerve agent. College chem labs can make it. Many weapons labs have made it including Porton Down, 8 miles from Salisbury.
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Nonsense. I have a degree in chemistry + used to call on graduate level labs in universities & colleges. These labs do not have the necessary equipment to prepare the final NOVICHOKS without killing everyone in the vicinity. Since these are binary weapons, some labs may have produced the relatively harmless precursor chemicals but combining them with the other ingredients (a catalyst + a fluorinating agent) would have potentially deadly results for anyone in the vicinity. And I believe that preparing these WMDs is against the law & could wind up up in a supermax prison.

And the NOVICHOKs were invented by the Russians to get around treaties that banned the classical nerve agents like sarin & VX. Their chemistry was subsequently published & is on the internet.

Novichok inventor on Amesbury poisoning: ‘I completely understand panic of those living in Salisbury’ | The Independent
 
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Westphalian said:
You still haven't managed to answer my question about why the UK has not brought charges.

I assume it's because it doesn't actually have any evidence sufficient to stand up to scrutiny in court.

Much easier to leak mis-information to a willing Russia hating media.
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You must have missed this....

Two Russian spies charged with launching the Salisbury novichok attack arrived in the UK just two days before attempting to assassinate Sergei Skripal and fled back to Moscow hours later, police have revealed.

Investigators painstakingly combed through 11,000 hours of CCTV footage to compile a timeline of the movements of two men who were using genuine Russian passports in the names of Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, which are believed to be aliases.

Theresa May said the men were members of Russia’s GRU military intelligence agency, after authorities issued European Arrest Warrants and Interpol red notices.
 
Fledermaus said:
You must have missed this....

Two Russian spies charged with launching the Salisbury novichok attack arrived in the UK just two days before attempting to assassinate Sergei Skripal and fled back to Moscow hours later, police have revealed.

Investigators painstakingly combed through 11,000 hours of CCTV footage to compile a timeline of the movements of two men who were using genuine Russian passports in the names of Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, which are believed to be aliases.

Theresa May said the men were members of Russia’s GRU military intelligence agency, after authorities issued European Arrest Warrants and Interpol red notices.
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That is all optics.


The question is why they are not being tried in absentia. The UK held a trial in the Litvinenko case. But in this case seemingly there is no hard evidence connecting the Russians to the crime.
 
Poisonings seem to be a favorite weapon for both Russia and China. There is a history of Russian ex-spies and dissidents being creatively poisoned abroad, especially in Britain. Litvinenko had been a defector from Russia’s infamous Federal Security Service (FSB) and a vocal critic of Vladimir Putin when he was poisoned by tea laced with polonium. Alexander Perepilichny, a Russian whistleblower, died in London six years later after suffering a fatal heart attack that was later linked to a highly-toxic plant called gelsemium.

There has been many that believe the poisoning of Skripal and his daughter was meant as a message to Paul Manafort to keep quiet.

Then there was the famous poison killing of Kim Jong-un's half brother in an airport in a Malaysia. That nerve agent only took 20 minutes to kill him. Still, quite a bit more finesse than Kim Jong-un using an anti-aircraft gun to kill his uncle as punishment for dozing during Kim's speech.
 
Few believe the fabrications and hate directed by the UK at Russia - an increasing problem for a despised and dis-credited political elite in the UK who have lied so often before.

Certainly not the parents of the only person to have died in this bizarre theatre of the absurd:

Novichok victim Dawn Sturgess's parents tell of their anger and hurt | UK news | The Guardian


The couple said they did not hate Russia, which has been accused by the British government of carrying out the attack. “I can’t take it personally,” said Caroline, a retired civil servant. Stan added: “If they’d targeted Dawn specifically, it would be different.” He said of the Skripals’ alleged attackers: “I don’t care if they are arrested or put in prison.”


But he continued: “I want justice from our own government. What are they hiding? I don’t think they have given us all the facts. If anyone, I blame the government for putting Skripal in Salisbury.

Stan and Caroline, stalwarts of the village of Durrington in Wiltshire, are angry at how their daughter was initially portrayed. They believe suggesting she and Rowley were troubled and irresponsible suited the narrative that they were harmed partly because of their lifestyle. Caroline said: “They were trying to get out the message that ‘this couldn’t happen to you, don’t worry, it’s because of their lifestyle’.”

They trust Rowley’s memory of the perfume bottle being in a sealed box, even though this undermines the idea that the novichok Dawn came into contact with was the same as was used in the attack on Skripal more than three months before.


”
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HumblePi said:
Poisonings seem to be a favorite weapon for both Russia and China. There is a history of Russian ex-spies and dissidents being creatively poisoned abroad, especially in Britain. Litvinenko had been a defector from Russia’s infamous Federal Security Service (FSB) and a vocal critic of Vladimir Putin when he was poisoned by tea laced with polonium. Alexander Perepilichny, a Russian whistleblower, died in London six years later after suffering a fatal heart attack that was later linked to a highly-toxic plant called gelsemium.

There has been many that believe the poisoning of Skripal and his daughter was meant as a message to Paul Manafort to keep quiet.

Then there was the famous poison killing of Kim Jong-un's half brother in an airport in a Malaysia. That nerve agent only took 20 minutes to kill him. Still, quite a bit more finesse than Kim Jong-un using an anti-aircraft gun to kill his uncle as punishment for dozing during Kim's speech.
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The NORKs assassinated Kim's brother by using binary VX, a U.S.-developed nerve agent known to be produced in N Korea. The 2 women each had cloths wet with the different binary components, both harmless by themselves: QL (a complex & difficult to make organophosphate compound) & elemental sulfur in a liquid carrier. One smeared his face with one & the second with the other. I believe the second one got affected by the VX, which formed spontaneously on Kim's face. He was dead shortly after. See article referenced below.

Assassins may have made a binary weapon of Kim Jong-nam’s face | New Scientist

Assassins may have made a binary weapon of Kim Jong-nam’s face

But with reports that one of the two attackers vomited afterwards, a possible cunning scheme is beginning to emerge. Because VX is so dangerous, chemical artillery shells and bombs meant to deliver it normally contain two separate chemicals, sulphur, and a complex but non-toxic compound called QL.

QL to VX.jpg
 
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Contrary to the garbage Westphalian and Fagan are tossing about, the Russian GRU attempted to assassinate the Skripals and wound up poisoning/killing a British civilian.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The testing of Novichok requires a Level-4 (BSL-4) research facility with extensive CW infrastructure. Different variations of Novichok were formulated and synthesized by the Russia chemist Vil Mirzayanov in the 80's and 90's in the closed Russian town of Shikhany. Novichok is a more dangerous and sophisticated agent than Sarin or VX and is harder to identify. Russia is the only country known by the OPCW to synthesize and manufacture the Novichok nerve agent. After the Salisbury poisonings, the Novichok research buildings outside the town of Shikhany were demolished and trucked away. The ground was bulldozed to a depth of four feet and refilled with fresh dirt trucked in. Nothing was left to chance if the OPCW should demand to visit the site. Four Russian intelligence agents were expelled from Switzerland for attempting to hack into the lab (Spiez Laboratory) that was testing Novichok samples from Britain. Two of these Russian agents had been previously expelled from the Netherlands for attempting to break into a lab that was testing chemical weapon samples from Syria. If Russia were innocent, why would Russian agents be attempting to destroy/alter CW sample test results?

Russians tried to hack Swiss lab testing samples from Skripal attack
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So deadly the Skripols went for hours after the alleged poisoning , had dinner etc , then took a nose dive. They also survived the attack. As did one of the other two people that were allegedly poisoned by it after allegedly finding the container used in the " attack " IIRC

Four people poisoned by the " extremely dangerous nerve agent " but only one person died. And by all accounts they weren't in the best of health to begin with

If that's the best all of these mad scientists can produce maybe the powers that be need to rethink their employment
 
oneworld2 said:
So deadly the Skripols went for hours after the alleged poisoning , had dinner etc , then took a nose dive. They also survived the attack. As did one of the other two people that were allegedly poisoned by it after allegedly finding the container used in the " attack " IIRC

Four people poisoned by the " extremely dangerous nerve agent " but only one person died. And by all accounts they weren't in the best of health to begin with

If that's the best all of these mad scientists can produce maybe the powers that be need to rethink their employment
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Maybe you need to read all the why's and wherefore's.
 
Fledermaus said:
The article did not state that either.

Why lie?
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Originally Posted by Fledermaus
The article discusses the DESTRUCTION of stocks.
"It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government"Quote from fieldmouse



So you agree that the USA was the last Nation holding the novichoks stocks. ALLEGEDLY destroyed.

..-. ..-

\/
 
DaveFagan said:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
The article discusses the DESTRUCTION of stocks.
"It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government"Quote from fieldmouse



So you agree that the USA was the last Nation holding the novichoks stocks. ALLEGEDLY destroyed.

..-. ..-

\/
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Schooled by a chemist and your still showing how clueless you are lol.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Maybe you need to read all the why's and wherefore's.
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I have a friend who is in the military and has been versed on and trained in chemical type attacks and he told me that the pictures shown on the news at the time were extremely suspect. I have also read and watched many other commentators rip the back out of the official narrative .

Did 4 people come into contact with this " extremely dangerous nerve agent " or not ? How many died ? Bearing that in mind is it unreasonable to be

A Suspicious of the official narrative

B The claims about just how deadly the agent itself actually is ?

My government has lied about this sort of thing before to dupe the public into fearing/reviling an official state enemy. Maybe you might want to read up a little too
 
Rogue Valley said:
Schooled by a chemist and your still showing how clueless you are lol.
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No self-respecting WMD chemist in the USA WMD business would have left there without taking a sample of the new WMD to US Weapons Lab/s a/k/a Detrrick, where the Anthrax virus deaths came from.

\/
 
Rogue Valley said:
Contrary to the garbage Westphalian and Fagan are tossing about, the Russian GRU attempted to assassinate the Skripals and wound up poisoning/killing a British civilian.
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:lamo

You sound more and more like a desperate Political Commissar in the waning days of the Soviet Union.


Even Sturgess's parents blame the UK government. You are fooling nobody.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Schooled by a chemist and your still showing how clueless you are lol.
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Novichok agent - Wikipedia

"Novichok (Russian: Новичо́к, "newcomer"/ "newbie"[1]/ "novice, beginner/ new boy"[2]) is a series of nerve agents developed by the Soviet Union and Russia between 1971 and 1993.[a][4][5] Russian scientists who developed the nerve agents claim they are the deadliest ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX,[6][7] and others up to ten times more potent than soman.[8]

They were designed as part of a Soviet programme codenamed FOLIANT.[3][9] Five Novichok variants are believed to have been adapted for military use.[10] The most versatile is A-232 (Novichok-5).[11] Novichok agents have never been used on the battlefield. The UK government determined that a novichok agent was used in the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury, Wiltshire, England in March 2018. It was unanimously confirmed by four laboratories around the world, according to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.[12] Novichok was also involved in the poisoning of a British couple in Amesbury, Wiltshire, four months later, believed to have been discarded after the Salisbury attack.[13] The attacks led to the death of one person,[14] left three others in a critical condition from which they recovered, and briefly hospitalised a police officer. Russia denies producing or researching agents "under the title Novichok".[15]

Novichok has however been known to most western secret services ever since the 1990's [16] and in 2016, Iranian chemists synthesised five Novichok agents for analysis and produced detailed mass spectral data which was added to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons Central Analytical Database.[17][18] Previously, there had been no detailed descriptions of their spectral properties in open scientific literature.[17][19] A small amount of agent A-230 was also claimed to have been synthesised in the Czech Republic in 2017 for the purpose of obtaining analytical data to help defend against these novel toxic compound"
 
oneworld2 said:
I have a friend who is in the military and has been versed on and trained in chemical type attacks and he told me that the pictures shown on the news at the time were extremely suspect. I have also read and watched many other commentators rip the back out of the official narrative .

Did 4 people come into contact with this " extremely dangerous nerve agent " or not ? How many died ? Bearing that in mind is it unreasonable to be

A Suspicious of the official narrative

B The claims about just how deadly the agent itself actually is ?

My government has lied about this sort of thing before to dupe the public into fearing/reviling an official state enemy. Maybe you might want to read up a little too
Click to expand...


Do you mean like the pics of the scientists in full chemical weapons gear whilst the public look on, unprotected, from 10 feet away?


It's like cheap theatre, an amateurish production complete with fabrications and lies.


When is the trial? Or would that require actual evidence?
 
Westphalian said:
Do you mean like the pics of the scientists in full chemical weapons gear whilst the public look on, unprotected, from 10 feet away?


It's like cheap theatre, an amateurish production complete with fabrications and lies.


When is the trial? Or would that require actual evidence?
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That's exactly what I mean

It's so deadly it kills one in four people it contacts or it is a ruse.

I recall my government/security people lying about a Ricin lab in a flat in London prior to the 2003 illegal invasion of Iraq. The MSM dutifully frightened everyone to death and stirred up the fear by a good margin. Skulls and crossed bones filling the front pages whilst , little known at the time and hidden from the debate , was the fact that Porton Down had tested the stuff found within 48 hours and found that it wasn't Ricin.

That did IIRC come out in a trial some months later , maybe over a year later , I don't recall exactly but by that time Iraqis were already dying in droves due to the war crimes of the US/UK predominantly

People here should learn but they tend not to , sadly
 
DaveFagan said:
Originally Posted by Fledermaus
The article discusses the DESTRUCTION of stocks.
"It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government"Quote from fieldmouse



So you agree that the USA was the last Nation holding the novichoks stocks. ALLEGEDLY destroyed.

..-. ..-

\/
Click to expand...

"It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government"

The EQUIPMENT was removed by the Americans.

EQUIPMENT

Is English not your first language?
 
Westphalian said:
That is all optics.
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No, it is charges filed. You asked. Then you ignore the answer.

Westphalian said:
The question is why they are not being tried in absentia. The UK held a trial in the Litvinenko case. But in this case seemingly there is no hard evidence connecting the Russians to the crime.
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BEWARE OF MOVING GOALPOSTS.............
 
oneworld2 said:
So deadly the Skripols went for hours after the alleged poisoning , had dinner etc , then took a nose dive. They also survived the attack. As did one of the other two people that were allegedly poisoned by it after allegedly finding the container used in the " attack " IIRC

Four people poisoned by the " extremely dangerous nerve agent " but only one person died. And by all accounts they weren't in the best of health to begin with

If that's the best all of these mad scientists can produce maybe the powers that be need to rethink their employment
Click to expand...

Arguments from Incredulity....
 
oneworld2 said:
I have a friend who is in the military and has been versed on and trained in chemical type attacks and he told me that the pictures shown on the news at the time were extremely suspect. I have also read and watched many other commentators rip the back out of the official narrative .

Did 4 people come into contact with this " extremely dangerous nerve agent " or not ? How many died ? Bearing that in mind is it unreasonable to be

A Suspicious of the official narrative

B The claims about just how deadly the agent itself actually is ?

My government has lied about this sort of thing before to dupe the public into fearing/reviling an official state enemy. Maybe you might want to read up a little too
Click to expand...

More argument from incredulity.

The facts are the events happened.
 
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