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The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

You're losing it all. And you have none but yourselves to blame. You were bad masters.

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I don't know who the hell you're talking about. Ukraine is a mess, and why the EU would want to take that on is beyond me. Seems like a bad idea.

Think about it. Let's say they get Crinea and the Donbass region back. Ok, then a pro-Russian Predident gets elected. So they have a "revolution" again. It's happened twice over a decade. The Ukrainians in the West want to be in the EU. That's fine, I can understand why. The ethnic Russisns in the East want to be close to Russia, which is understandable.

So they can never be a stable democracy like that. Is that something the EU wants?
 
It is a terrible argument, yet you are making it.

You said democracy in Ukraine is terrible. However, participation is a benchmark of democracy.
 
I don't know who the hell you're talking about. Ukraine is a mess, and why the EU would want to take that on is beyond me. Seems like a bad idea.

Think about it. Let's say they get Crinea and the Donbass region back. Ok, then a pro-Russian Predident gets elected. So they have a "revolution" again. It's happened twice over a decade. The Ukrainians in the West want to be in the EU. That's fine, I can understand why. The ethnic Russisns in the East want to be close to Russia, which is understandable.

So they can never be a stable democracy like that. Is that something the EU wants?

To translate to the rest of you: How dare they want to chose their own destiny? Don't they know, they're Moscow's vassal state for all eternity?
 
You said democracy in Ukraine is terrible. However, participation is a benchmark of democracy.

It is a benchmark, but far from the only one.

What has happened over the years in Ukraine? When a President gets elected that doesn't jibe with some people's ideas, do they wait for the next election? No, they have a revolution. Basically, a coup. It's hard to argue that it is a functioning democracy when there is no respect for democratic principles.
 
To translate to the rest of you: How dare they want to chose their own destiny? Don't they know, they're Moscow's vassal state for all eternity?

Total fail. Lack of reading comprehension noted.

They have every right to join the EU. The question is, does the EU want a country where democracy doesn't function? Does the EU want to admit a state that doesn't control its territory?

Apparently, you think they do and any suggestion to the contrary means I'm a Russian plant.
 
It was Yanukovich who "shredded" the agreement. And the protesters were backed by the EU, not the US. The US didn't do anything to help or harm Ukraine one way or another until recently. In fact, a US official was once caught on tape saying "**** the EU," pretty casually. And, furthermore, they were NON-VIOLENT. And they were attacked by a ruthless regime/police state with MILITARY TACTICS. The Oblast of Lviv LITERALLY SECEDED from Yanukovich's regime over this. LITERALLY.



Wrong, wrong and wrong.



There's so much wrong here I don't know where to start. I guess I'll just say that RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE. They literally HIRED BLACKWATER-CLASS MERCENARIES TO OCCUPY AN AIRPORT. I mean this has LITERALLY been reported EVERYWHERE REGARDLESS of political lean (with the exception of RT/Sputnik and the Alt-Right). EVERY other major Republican and Democratic and Independent and Libertarian and Right-Wing, Left-Wing, Centrist, Progressive, etc. website has reported on this.



Your clearly building a strawman here to distract from the fact that RUSSIA INVADED AND OCCUPIED CRIMEA. They did EXACTLY what NATO did with Kosovo, only they hired Russian, Ukrainian and other-ethnicity mercenaries to do the dirty work. Either way, Russian men, weapons and money were involved in the Invasion of Crimea in March 2014.
:lamo


I was giving another perspective - a concept which seems literally alien to you.


Your whole post is really one litany of intolerance, a complete inability to see anything other than what you deign to be the absolute 'truth'. This is the problem with many in the West these days ........ they adopt a form of absolutism which leaves no room for any opinions outside a small and self defined envelope.

You even go into complete truth denial. When I suggested that early proposals to ban the Russian language was a move likely to alienate and indicate hate towards Russian speakers, you simply dismiss me as 'WRONG'. Yet in this upside down world, it is you who is denying the truth, and it is your post which is 'liked' by people who know better.

That is an indication of the messed up world of western propaganda and those who spread it either through ignorance or wilfully.
 
Total fail. Lack of reading comprehension noted.

They have every right to join the EU. The question is, does the EU want a country where democracy doesn't function? Does the EU want to admit a state that doesn't control its territory?

Apparently, you think they do and any suggestion to the contrary means I'm a Russian plant.



You ask meaningful questions, and of course you will therefore be denounced as a Russian agent.


Ukraine is, with or without Donbas, still hopelessly divided. It's also bankrupt.


Ukraine is trying to succeed through making an enemy of its larger more powerful neighbor. This has never been achieved by any state in history.
 
You ask meaningful questions, and of course you will therefore be denounced as a Russian agent.


Ukraine is, with or without Donbas, still hopelessly divided. It's also bankrupt.


Ukraine is trying to succeed through making an enemy of its larger more powerful neighbor. This has never been achieved by any state in history.

Yeah, Poland too begged to be invaded.

"Once again, myths about the persecution of a German minority were used to build up a case for armed intervention. German refugees told pitious tales of Polish brutality. Nazi propaganda filmed them greedily for the cinema newsreels throughout July and August."
The World at War Ep 1-A New Germany: 1933-1939 - video dailymotion

You ain't fooling anyone.

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Yeah, Poland too begged to be invaded.

"Once again, myths about the persecution of a German minority were used to build up a case for armed intervention. German refugees told pitious tales of Polish brutality. Nazi propaganda filmed them greedily for the cinema newsreels throughout July and August."
The World at War Ep 1-A New Germany: 1933-1939 - video dailymotion

You ain't fooling anyone.

199px-Coat_of_arms_of_the_European_Union_Military_Staff.svg.png


2 salient facts:


1. I never mentioned invasion.


2. Ukraine isn't in the EU.


Which renders your post totally irrelevant.
 
First you piss on people, then you say they smell.

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I said Ukraine was divided and bankrupt - hardly contentious given its civil war, and desperate economic situation and IMF indebtedness.


You responded by talking about invasion and referencing the EU.


Go figure. :lol:
 
I said Ukraine was divided and bankrupt

Hardly. Not doing badly for a nation invaded by Russia. Elections next month.

You really need to free all the Ukrainian/Crimean prisoners you're holding in Moscow.

Now you've also charged a Russian woman under the "undesirables" law, arrested a female journalist in Pskov, and arrested a dozen women participating in the "March of Mother's" protest in St. Petersburg.

You gonna arrest all your women folk?
 
You actually believe this works? Or are you filling the numbers?


Your logic problem not mine.


Probably a waste of time trying to reason with those for whom hatred of Russia is ingrained.
 
To be fair, their are a fair number of Ukrainians who hate Russia. I’d put their hatred below that if Latvia, Lithuania, and Georgia, though.

Well if Russians killed 13,000 Virginians in four years, how would you feel?
 
No, pretty much all ethnic Ukrainians consider themselves distinct form Russians

Didn't the ancient Rus tribes that later gave birth to the Russian nation, originated precisely in what is today's Ukraine?

Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine all call the Kievan Rus their ancestors.

Sure, there are some differences in language and alphabet, but it's a common origin. It's like the Portuguese spoken and written in Portugal differed slightly from the one practiced in Brazil up to more recent times when a treaty unified the orthography and grammar.

I think both Belarus and Ukraine should have joined the Russian Federation. They'd be better off, now, especially the basket case called Ukraine.

Now, the Crimea thing, I do find deplorable, because Russia did sign the Budapest Memorandum, promising to uphold the territory of a sovereign Ukraine, in exchange for having the nukes returned. So, that they unceremoniously broke that promise later, is disgraceful, since Ukraine would never have lost Crimea if they had kept their nuclear arsenal, which at the time was the third biggest in the world, after the US and Russia.
 
Why would Ukraine join the Russian Federation after such atrocities as the Holodomor?

Bygones. 1932. A lot changed in the world between that, and the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

There is no Stalin any longer.

That was the Soviet Union.

The Russian Federation is a different country.

Putin may be a jerk, but he is no Stalin.
 
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