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Thread: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Not a hatred of Russia. A hatred of the Putin regime.
    To be fair, their are a fair number of Ukrainians who hate Russia. I’d put their hatred below that if Latvia, Lithuania, and Georgia, though.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    To be fair, their are a fair number of Ukrainians who hate Russia. I’d put their hatred below that if Latvia, Lithuania, and Georgia, though.
    Well if Russians killed 13,000 Virginians in four years, how would you feel?


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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No, pretty much all ethnic Ukrainians consider themselves distinct form Russians
    Didn't the ancient Rus tribes that later gave birth to the Russian nation, originated precisely in what is today's Ukraine?

    Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine all call the Kievan Rus their ancestors.

    Sure, there are some differences in language and alphabet, but it's a common origin. It's like the Portuguese spoken and written in Portugal differed slightly from the one practiced in Brazil up to more recent times when a treaty unified the orthography and grammar.

    I think both Belarus and Ukraine should have joined the Russian Federation. They'd be better off, now, especially the basket case called Ukraine.

    Now, the Crimea thing, I do find deplorable, because Russia did sign the Budapest Memorandum, promising to uphold the territory of a sovereign Ukraine, in exchange for having the nukes returned. So, that they unceremoniously broke that promise later, is disgraceful, since Ukraine would never have lost Crimea if they had kept their nuclear arsenal, which at the time was the third biggest in the world, after the US and Russia.

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    I think both Belarus and Ukraine should have joined the Russian Federation.
    Why would Ukraine join the Russian Federation after such atrocities as the Holodomor?


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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Why would Ukraine join the Russian Federation after such atrocities as the Holodomor?
    Bygones. 1932. A lot changed in the world between that, and the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

    There is no Stalin any longer.

    That was the Soviet Union.

    The Russian Federation is a different country.

    Putin may be a jerk, but he is no Stalin.

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Bygones. 1932. A lot changed in the world between that, and the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

    There is no Stalin any longer.

    That was the Soviet Union.

    The Russian Federation is a different country.

    Putin may be a jerk, but he is no Stalin.
    Although both peoples are Slavs, Ukraine is not Russia. Different histories, traditions, culture, folklore, foods, traditional dress etc. Although mutually intelligible with Russian (east Slavic languages), the Ukrainian language has more in common with Belorussian and Polish.


    • "I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn’t need to do this. But I'd rather do it much faster." — Donald Trump 15 February 2019 •
    • US Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law •

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Although both peoples are Slavs, Ukraine is not Russia. Different histories, traditions, culture, folklore, foods, traditional dress etc. Although mutually intelligible with Russian (east Slavic languages), the Ukrainian language has more in common with Belorussian and Polish.
    And no, the Holodomor is not a "bygone". Anyone who has lived in Ukraine easily realizes that.


    • "I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn’t need to do this. But I'd rather do it much faster." — Donald Trump 15 February 2019 •
    • US Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law •

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Slava Ukrayini. Proshchay.


    • "I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn’t need to do this. But I'd rather do it much faster." — Donald Trump 15 February 2019 •
    • US Constitution, Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law •

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Well if Russians killed 13,000 Virginians in four years, how would you feel?
    What does that have to do with anything? I wasn’t making any judgement, simply stating my observation.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: The falsification of history: 'Ukraine' is not a country

    I think the situations in Ukraine and in Syria and throughout the Middle East and as well as the Yugoslav Wars are more closely intertwined in cause and effect than what is being portrayed by BOTH sides. If anything this is kind of like a proto-Croatian War of Independence scenario (with Russians added, on the side of the Croatians, which are the aggressors this time, and have taken Vojvodina in the process), an ongoing Frozen War in the post-Soviet Union orbit. But I have a feeling it is about to escalate. Yulia Tymoshenko is a threat to pro-EU reforms in Ukraine, and she unfortunately has connections to the Kremlin as well. Even if she is routed by an insurgent, it doesn't look like it will be Poroshenko.

    In the five years since the popular uprising that swept Yanukovich from power, Ukraine’s heady optimism for change has faded. Seventy percent of Ukrainians believe the country is headed in the wrong direction, according to a December survey.

    “There is fatigue from unfulfilled hopes,” Iryna Bekeshkina, the director of the Democratic Initiatives Foundation, one of three organizations that carried out the survey, told Reuters.

    Poroshenko wants Ukraine to apply for EU membership in 2024. But while the West remains supportive of Ukraine, the country’s prospects of joining the bloc any time soon are questionable.
    Either way, this is part of an ongoing Frozen War that began when Russia and Ukraine invaded Moldova in 1992 via a Russian-backed backed effort to essentially take over Moldova with a puppet government.

    The Transnistria War was an armed conflict that broke out in November 1990 in Dubăsari (Russian: Дубоссáры, Dubossary) between pro-Transnistria forces, including the Transnistrian Republican Guard, militia and Cossack units (which were supported by elements of the Russian 14th Army), and pro-Moldovan forces, including Moldovan troops and police. Fighting intensified on 1 March 1992 and, alternating with ad hoc ceasefires, lasted throughout the spring and early summer of 1992 until a ceasefire was declared on 21 July 1992, which has held. The conflict remained unresolved, but in 2011 talks were held under the auspices of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) with Lithuania holding the rotating chairmanship.[11]
    So this crisis was ongoing until a few years AFTER the 2008 Georgia War, and a few years BEFORE the first signs of severe unrest in Ukraine - running concurrent to the aforementioned Yugoslav Wars, NATO intervention in Yugoslavia, September 11 attacks, Declaration of the Global War on Terror, US Invasion of Iraq in 2003, and the invasion of Libya in 2011, the same year the Syrian Civil War and the War on Isis began...

    In fact, despite the 2011 talks, in the wake of the 2014 Russian intervention, renewed concern was brought forth by the U.S. commander of NATO, who warned "Russian troops poised to 'run' into Moldova"

    “There is absolutely sufficient [Russian] force postured on the eastern border of Ukraine to run to Transdniester if the decision was made to do that, and that is very worrisome,” he said at a meeting in Brussels hosted by the Marshall Fund, a German think tank.
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