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Why Do You People Want War With Russia ?

So why ask if I agreed your point? I don't and you're wrong.

You have snipped and assumed so much of what I have written here I haven't a clue what you are talking about to be honest. Maybe that's the way you like it , I don't know. Maybe you can clarify


So why claim there are trolls everywhere? We all know about Russian trolls - we have and had some here on the forum. We also know about the Russian troll factories in St Petersburg so if as you claim the same thing happens elsewhere it should be easy to find examples?

I said there are many posters here who are jingoists for actions against Russia and the fact is there are and I have cited some of them earlier in the thread. But the truth is that any who read the threads about Russia here will be lying imo if they claim this to be a troll free zone or that this jingoism isn't going on
 
You have snipped and assumed so much of what I have written here I haven't a clue what you are talking about to be honest. Maybe that's the way you like it , I don't know. Maybe you can clarify

https://www.debatepolitics.com/euro...people-want-war-russia-14.html#post1069390837

I said it on page 14 and my position hasn't changed. Nice of you to throw falsehoods at me just because you have no answer to my simple original point.

the truth is that any who read the threads about Russia here will be lying imo if they claim this to be a troll free zone or that this jingoism isn't going on

More falsehood. I said originally that there are trolls in the East whose aim is to sow discontent and fake news - discord only helps the Russians. You then claimed there are similar trolls elsewhere but you haven't been able to show me any proof of Western trolls / troll farms at any kind of equivalent level to Russian / North Korean or Chinese trolling in the west.
 
But the truth is that any who read the threads about Russia here will be lying imo if they claim this to be a troll free zone or that this jingoism isn't going on

Anytime you want to show where I've used suspect sources regarding Russia, by all means show us.
 
I have always favoured the view that the propaganda system has to be much more refined in a freer society , precisely because of those freedoms.

In the authoritarian/totalitarian system it doesn't really matter whether the government/leadership propaganda is believed because any objectors/dissidents can be coshed by the goon squad and sent to the Gulag. In the "free " society , where the goon squads actions/powers are restricted the propaganda has to be believed by the majority because the people can object and also , in theory , do something about it by organising a democratic opposition to it etc

To outsiders, the propaganda system in the U.S. looks like a blunt instrument. Like I said earlier, all you have to do is travel a bit to get an outsider's perspective of your own country. It's true, the U.S. was a bit more subtle some time ago, but not anymore. The rise of tyranny is blatant. The country has been polarized into two very clear factions by the media and government, so there can be no solidarity against political forces.

I look at what just happened in France, and although I don't think it's totally clean of bias and extremism, you still have to admire it. The government there fears the people, as it should be. In the U.S. now people laugh and make fun of their political opponents as they get jackbooted. The adage, "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it," is an utter B.S. platitude now. People also complain when a congress person gets spoken over, or people seem "radical". We have become soft, petty, and ridiculous. To uphold a democracy you need to be loud and disruptive, otherwise what's the point. The government doesn't listen to politeness. The wealthy corporate class certainly don't.
 
Serious question , why do you people want war with Russia ?

I am sick and tired of this resurgence of the threat of the Big Red Bear in European and US circles. The truth is , to me at least , that the West has been racing towards the Russian borders by swallowing up nation after nation into the Nato sphere and framing the obvious and understandable response as " Russian aggression " in a classic case of international projection.

Why would people want and seek to add petrol to such a highly volatile situation ?

The problem isn't Russian aggression but rather US full spectrum dominance as set out in the Project for a New American Century. Iraq in the stone age. Afghanistan in turmoil. Libya full of Islamists. Syria in ruins. Iran and North Korea in the cross hairs but Russia is the country we need to curb the aggression with ?

Really ?

These constant calls for war and or the upping of tensions are like some Orwellian nightmare. You people who are calling for it should be the ONLY ones forced into fighting it instead of cheer leading for wars that will kill millions of people who are just trying to go about their daily business as best they can

There shouldn't be a demand for war with Russia, however, there are those who want to manufacture Russia (and China to an extent) as a major threat to the US and its allies in order to increase their bottom lines. There are also other elements at work who want to eliminate Russia, a nation they see as a major geopolitical rival and one of the few nations that could potentially stand up to the US.
 
https://www.debatepolitics.com/euro...people-want-war-russia-14.html#post1069390837

I said it on page 14 and my position hasn't changed. Nice of you to throw falsehoods at me just because you have no answer to my simple original point.



More falsehood. I said originally that there are trolls in the East whose aim is to sow discontent and fake news - discord only helps the Russians. You then claimed there are similar trolls elsewhere but you haven't been able to show me any proof of Western trolls / troll farms at any kind of equivalent level to Russian / North Korean or Chinese trolling in the west.
It's the favourite MO and not just here.

Spew out a product of own bias, mask it as a serious question, attempt to corroborate the conclusion that was foregone from the outset with fabrications and then, when called on that, sling accusations of others resorting to spin.

Whole thread started out that way with the OP and its title, circular reasoning continuing ever since.

Only sensible answer to this one and all the other ones being "I never stopped beating my wife at all, ever. But thanks for asking"

:roll:
 
There's a fairly easy way to see other perspectives: go travelling. I've lived in places in the world where you barely hear any news about America or the western sphere unless you actively go looking for it. When you live here, it's the opposite... the news media makes it seem like the entire world revolves around the U.S. and the geopolitics of the western bloc.

There's no denying that there are powerful influencers, but they're not as all encompassing as we're made to believe here. I have actually enjoyed travelling for this reason. You get a break from all the propaganda and pro-west, pro-capitalist non-sense. Most people in the world are not living the way we live. Yes, some live in poverty, and that's a shame, especially as some of those places are trying to adopt our style of failing capitalism. On the other hand, social consciousness can be entirely different.

U.S. makes it seem like all of planet earth is divided into left and right when that's only one reality. That's one of the dangers of monocultures.

You're not the only American with a passport and who uses it. You see what you see abroad while others see what they see. USA has just about every group from all over the world. Russia on the other hand is loaded up with Russians. China is full up with Chinese. North Korea is jam packed with, well, North Koreans. The three places of a monoculture never see anyone with red hair or blue eyes unless it's a foreign devil. It's much of the same same for 'em in everything. Ingrown in a good word for 'em and it.




Sad. If you'd studied more about international relations and history instead of football maybe you'd understand what's entailed in foreign alliances. As stated previously, I support those alliances, but I'm also educated enough to understand what they mean and require.

I'd congratulate you but the post is full up of self-congratulation as it is. So I'll leave it at that for all to see thx anyway.




More babble rather than admitting the truth.

AKA: Standard Tangmo Evasion Maneuver.

I look foward to your posts because I never know what you're going to say. About truth especially.



Which leaves me 3 for 3 on the day.
 
You're not the only American with a passport and who uses it. You see what you see abroad while others see what they see. USA has just about every group from all over the world. Russia on the other hand is loaded up with Russians. China is full up with Chinese. North Korea is jam packed with, well, North Koreans. The three places of a monoculture never see anyone with red hair or blue eyes unless it's a foreign devil. It's much of the same same for 'em in everything. Ingrown in a good word for 'em and it.






I'd congratulate you but the post is full up of self-congratulation as it is. So I'll leave it at that for all to see thx anyway.






I look foward to your posts because I never know what you're going to say. About truth especially.

Which leaves me 3 for 3 on the day.

Still no recognition for your **** up.

Pure Tangmo.
 
There shouldn't be a demand for war with Russia, however, there are those who want to manufacture Russia (and China to an extent) as a major threat to the US and its allies in order to increase their bottom lines. There are also other elements at work who want to eliminate Russia, a nation they see as a major geopolitical rival and one of the few nations that could potentially stand up to the US.


This ........ exactly :).

The MIC tried Al Qaeda as the enemy, but the problem with the bearded robe wearers was that they're armed only with guns (except where they get hold of US anti tank missiles and shoulder launched SAMs), and they're never going to be capable of mass destruction of the US.

So it was back to the old favorite Russia (and China if they ever boost their volume of nuclear warheads). It had to be of course, because falling defence spending was a disaster for the MIC. But what better than to create a latter day McCarthyite hysteria to persuade people that they needed to give their money to the MIC? So there we are ......... it's been a successful campaign of xenophobia and racism ......... acceptable racism of course because nobody should have any contact with Russians. Have you made that a crime yet, or is it still a virtual crime?
 
This ........ exactly :).

The MIC tried Al Qaeda as the enemy,....
Sorry dude, but the “MIC” conspiracy theory became outdated after Vietnam. There are much larger companies with tens of billions of dollars at stake that would lose a lot more than the few billons being made by defense contractors.
 
Oh so a bunch of leftists in Canada speak for western democracy now? Remember we [the West] have been meddling in other's elections for a long time.

Do you believe that two wrongs make a right?
 
You're not the only American with a passport and who uses it. You see what you see abroad while others see what they see. USA has just about every group from all over the world. Russia on the other hand is loaded up with Russians. China is full up with Chinese. North Korea is jam packed with, well, North Koreans. The three places of a monoculture never see anyone with red hair or blue eyes unless it's a foreign devil. It's much of the same same for 'em in everything. Ingrown in a good word for 'em and it.

I'd congratulate you but the post is full up of self-congratulation as it is. So I'll leave it at that for all to see thx anyway.

There are lots of western people in those countries, especially now. Your tongue in cheek depiction of how they look at western foreigners is kind of laughable. Yes I have a passport, but I'm not an idle traveller. I have lived in both Russia and China for periods of time. I'm also a Mandarin-speaking white person.

There are many ethnicities in China who are native to that region, not transplants like America's monoculture. China has 52 "minorities" who all have their own languages. Each city in China also has its own local language too. Russia also has many regionalities. You won't really get the foreign perspective of America unless you actually live there. If you're just an entitled American going to places and expecting to be catered to in your language and culture (most are), then you won't get that view.

No self-congratulation happening, I'm just speaking from my expertise which I deserve to do because it was hard work and well earned.

Most Americans speak one language and have never left their home country, yet everyone is an armchair expert on foreign policy, all based on what's fed to them by their media/government. American ignorance of foreign culture and of how they seem to the rest of the world is very well known. It doesn't mean we don't have other virtues, that's just not one of them.
 
Sorry dude, but the “MIC” conspiracy theory became outdated after Vietnam. There are much larger companies with tens of billions of dollars at stake that would lose a lot more than the few billons being made by defense contractors.


You under-estimate the huge vested interests within the elite, and the influence of the recipients of that money - the military.


Few people actually want war, but they do want the money, and big US based corporates do not have the clout of the military when it comes to competing for taxpayer's money.
 
https://www.debatepolitics.com/euro...people-want-war-russia-14.html#post1069390837

I said it on page 14 and my position hasn't changed. Nice of you to throw falsehoods at me just because you have no answer to my simple original point.

Nobody has thrown any " falsehoods " at you though. You snipped my post and made the wrong assumption about what it was concerned with. You thought I had inferred that the Russians had ceased to be a threat, when the comment cited was regarding the Western propaganda systems decision to focus on the Islamic terrorist threat for a while.

I explained this to you at the time and now you want to claim I " have no answer to " your " simple original point " :roll:. You barked up the wrong tree by making an assumption , no more no less. Obviously any state with a nuclear capacity never ceases to be a global /international threat so your point was never going to be challenged. I just told you that you had mistaken what I was referring to


More falsehood. I said originally that there are trolls in the East whose aim is to sow discontent and fake news - discord only helps the Russians. You then claimed there are similar trolls elsewhere but you haven't been able to show me any proof of Western trolls / troll farms at any kind of equivalent level to Russian / North Korean or Chinese trolling in the west.

There wasn't a falsehood in the beginning just your wrong assumption , get over yourself.

And I said there will be trolls all over the place , meaning all social media/forum type set ups. And I stand by that statement just on the pure logic of it. To think DP will be free from anti Russian ones is foolish imo.
When you asked me about " troll farms " and evidence for them I said I didn't know of any but stated that the countries you mentioned have stronger internet restrictions and controls so it might be more difficult to troll their media systems.

I gave examples of jingoism earlier so no need to repeat that.
 
Anytime you want to show where I've used suspect sources regarding Russia, by all means show us.

I said I think you are jingoist and showed comments contained in your posts doing just that
 
It's the favourite MO and not just here.

Spew out a product of own bias, mask it as a serious question, attempt to corroborate the conclusion that was foregone from the outset with fabrications and then, when called on that, sling accusations of others resorting to spin.

Whole thread started out that way with the OP and its title, circular reasoning continuing ever since.

Only sensible answer to this one and all the other ones being "I never stopped beating my wife at all, ever. But thanks for asking"

:roll:

Same old same old. Getting pretty tiring to see this nonsense used on another poster and then on another poster and so on.
 
I said I think you are jingoist and showed comments contained in your posts doing just that

Just for the record, he absolutely has used suspect sources, including one website I traced back to US intel.
 
There shouldn't be a demand for war with Russia, however, there are those who want to manufacture Russia (and China to an extent) as a major threat to the US and its allies in order to increase their bottom lines. There are also other elements at work who want to eliminate Russia, a nation they see as a major geopolitical rival and one of the few nations that could potentially stand up to the US.

I find the jingoism for a war with Russia to be absolutely crazy.

I think you are right about it being driven in part by those wanting to " increase their bottom lines ". War makes some people staggeringly rich and that's their motivation. Glad too you see the geopolitics at play. To listen to many of the people duped here by the media parroting " Russian aggression " whilst cheer leading for and defending their own states aggression is wholly depressing . If these Lemmings don't mind cheering for situations that might see them opting to jump off the cliff good for them and tbh good riddance too but the fire consumes everyone else !! That's what gets under my skin about them
 
Just for the record, he absolutely has used suspect sources, including one website I traced back to US intel.

TBH Truth it wouldn't surprise me at all to see state shills being used in these places. But I am definitely not going through all of his **** to find out lol
 
This ........ exactly :).

The MIC tried Al Qaeda as the enemy, but the problem with the bearded robe wearers was that they're armed only with guns (except where they get hold of US anti tank missiles and shoulder launched SAMs), and they're never going to be capable of mass destruction of the US.

So it was back to the old favorite Russia (and China if they ever boost their volume of nuclear warheads). It had to be of course, because falling defence spending was a disaster for the MIC. But what better than to create a latter day McCarthyite hysteria to persuade people that they needed to give their money to the MIC? So there we are ......... it's been a successful campaign of xenophobia and racism ......... acceptable racism of course because nobody should have any contact with Russians. Have you made that a crime yet, or is it still a virtual crime?

I find the jingoism for a war with Russia to be absolutely crazy.

I think you are right about it being driven in part by those wanting to " increase their bottom lines ". War makes some people staggeringly rich and that's their motivation. Glad too you see the geopolitics at play. To listen to many of the people duped here by the media parroting " Russian aggression " whilst cheer leading for and defending their own states aggression is wholly depressing . If these Lemmings don't mind cheering for situations that might see them opting to jump off the cliff good for them and tbh good riddance too but the fire consumes everyone else !! That's what gets under my skin about them


I can definitely get more into the geopolitics of it, but that'd take a lot of writing. :2razz: :2razz:
 
In other words, the call to supply at least some evidence of DPers calling for all-out war with Russia remains unanswered. On account of it being too troublesome to try and find any.

Of such stuff are threads like these made.:roll:
 
Serious question , why do you people want war with Russia ?

I am sick and tired of this resurgence of the threat of the Big Red Bear in European and US circles. The truth is , to me at least , that the West has been racing towards the Russian borders by swallowing up nation after nation into the Nato sphere and framing the obvious and understandable response as " Russian aggression " in a classic case of international projection.

Why would people want and seek to add petrol to such a highly volatile situation ?

The problem isn't Russian aggression but rather US full spectrum dominance as set out in the Project for a New American Century. Iraq in the stone age. Afghanistan in turmoil. Libya full of Islamists. Syria in ruins. Iran and North Korea in the cross hairs but Russia is the country we need to curb the aggression with ?

Really ?

These constant calls for war and or the upping of tensions are like some Orwellian nightmare. You people who are calling for it should be the ONLY ones forced into fighting it instead of cheer leading for wars that will kill millions of people who are just trying to go about their daily business as best they can

wait countries are being forced into nato?

nato is going to attack russia?

russia is supporting a dictator in syria

and took part of ukraine after its puppet was removed from power


what are you on about?
 
Same old same old. Getting pretty tiring to see this nonsense used on another poster and then on another poster and so on.
When it's all one has?:(

Of course others that have just as little would simply remain silent, but how would doing that garner clearly and desperately desired attention?
 
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