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How many wake-up calls do we really need to wake up?

My thought exactly, which is why I don't think nukes are the answer. The answer is international support for Ukraine. But how to do that without rocking the boat too much.

I'm surprised no one is discussing "regime change" as we have (unsuccessfully?) In the mid east. IMO, assassination can be a public service.

KevinKohler:

Political assassination has been illegal for the US Government to use as an option since 1976 IIRC. The law would have to be changed and that could draw the ire of the American electorate. Furthermore, if Russia learned that the US Government was behind an assassination designed to decapitate the Russian state in order effect regime change that could be a powerful casus belli leading to open hostilities in Europe and maybe globally.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
KevinKohler:

Political assassination has been illegal for the US Government to use as an option since 1976 IIRC. The law would have to be changed and that could draw the ire of the American electorate. Furthermore, if Russia learned that the US Government was behind an assassination designed to decapitate the Russian state in order effect regime change that could be a powerful casus belli leading to open hostilities in Europe and maybe globally.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Not from us. I was just thinking...if Puten were to suddenly to get sick and die from radiation poisoning from a specific isotope...


Half serious.
 
In the final analysis, only Ukraine can deter Russia from dismembering the country. NATO won't get deeply involved militarily. In a conventional war, Ukraine by itself would be hopelessly outmatched. Every European country would also be outmatched by itself. Ukraine could and would bleed Russia badly via partisan warfare and taking the war to Moscow itself. However, damages to Ukrainian cities would be extensive as would be casualties. We've seen how Russia saturation bombs Syrian cities without any care for civilian dead and maimed. The only viable defense then is nuclear weapons. At one time, Ukraine held the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It's past time for a reprise of that era.
 
KevinKohler:

More likely, with MAD in place, Russia will be forced to fight a protracted and very expensive limited conventional and hybrid war in Ukraine with conventional weapons. Russia will have to bear the blood price and economic costs of the war as well as struggling under international sanctions and boycotts. Ukraine will fight the war with money grants, loans and subsidies from the West. Russia will eventually come to terms before it is bankrupted. Unfortunately many, many people on both sides will die, be maimed, or lose everything but that is the cruel nature of war. No rational power will perpetuate such conditions if it has other options. Ukraine has no other option but Russia does.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Just curious but if you are consistent surely you would support the nuclear arming of say Iran , Syria , Yemen , Gaza in fact all countries/territories in danger of being attacked by the nuclear superpowers ? A entire global nuclear armed planet ? Or is it just those under threat from Russia ?
 
My thought exactly, which is why I don't think nukes are the answer. The answer is international support for Ukraine. But how to do that without rocking the boat too much.

I'm surprised no one is discussing "regime change" as we have (unsuccessfully?) In the mid east. IMO, assassination can be a public service.

Wow , anyone might think you are calling for a murder there

How about a massive home dissent movement against US full spectrum global dominance as an option to lower world tensions ?
 
In the final analysis, only Ukraine can deter Russia from dismembering the country. NATO won't get deeply involved militarily. In a conventional war, Ukraine by itself would be hopelessly outmatched. Every European country would also be outmatched by itself. Ukraine could and would bleed Russia badly via partisan warfare and taking the war to Moscow itself. However, damages to Ukrainian cities would be extensive as would be casualties. We've seen how Russia saturation bombs Syrian cities without any care for civilian dead and maimed. The only viable defense then is nuclear weapons. At one time, Ukraine held the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It's past time for a reprise of that era.

How can we take seriously Americans complaining about superpowers " dismembering " countries when your own has probably ensured the dismemberment of Iraq and Syria at some future date ?
 
Just curious but if you are consistent surely you would support the nuclear arming of say Iran , Syria , Yemen , Gaza in fact all countries/territories in danger of being attacked by the nuclear superpowers ? A entire global nuclear armed planet ? Or is it just those under threat from Russia ?

oneworld2:

No, not the same really. Only in the case of Ukraine do we have an ex-nuclear power which demonstrated responsibility with its nuclear arsenal through very turbulent times. Furthermore, Ukraine signed an agreement with Russia and other major powers to divest itself of its nuclear arsenal with the explicit assurance that Russia would respect its sovreignity and along with the USA, France, The UK and China IIRC would defend Ukraine in the event of an attack. None of the signatories have lived up to their solemn obligations under the Budapest Agreement and so the agreement is null and void, legally returning Ukraine to the nuclear club even if it possesses no known nuclear weapons at the moment.

Iran, Syria, Yemen, North Korea, never were nuclear powers and so are not in the same situation as Ukraine is. They never possessed nuclear weapons and then gave them up by treaty, which was later breached. The only other power which gave up a functional nuclear arsenal as far as I know was South Africa. Gaza is not a state and Palestine is in too bad a state to responsibly possess nuclear weapons. The status of Israel is difficult due to its policy of "strategic ambiguity" with respect to nuclear weapons and delivery systems. The situation is made worse by the political protection offered to Israel by the USA over nuclear compliance and inspection.

As an editorial note, I would say that I would feel more comfortable in a world where Iran possessed nuclear weapons instead of volatile and unstable Pakistan. The argument that if Iran got nuclear weapons, then Saudi Arabia would get them has always struck me as absurd because as a condition for funding and assisting Pakistan in its nuclear programme, Saudi Arabia got a guarantee that Pakistan would supply it with nuclear weapons if the Saudi kingdom needed them in the future. So Saudi Arabia has been weeks away from being a nuclear-armed military power since the 1960's.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
oneworld2:

No, not the same really. Only in the case of Ukraine do we have an ex-nuclear power which demonstrated responsibility with its nuclear arsenal through very turbulent times. Furthermore, Ukraine signed an agreement with Russia and other major powers to divest itself of its nuclear arsenal with the explicit assurance that Russia would respect its sovreignity and along with the USA, France, The UK and China IIRC would defend Ukraine in the event of an attack. None of the signatories have lived up to their solemn obligations under the Budapest Agreement and so the agreement is null and void, legally returning Ukraine to the nuclear club even if it possesses no known nuclear weapons at the moment.

Iran, Syria, Yemen, North Korea, never were nuclear powers and so are not in the same situation as Ukraine is. They never possessed nuclear weapons and then gave them up by treaty, which was later breached. The only other power which gave up a functional nuclear arsenal as far as I know was South Africa. Gaza is not a state and Palestine is in too bad a state to responsibly possess nuclear weapons. The status of Israel is difficult due to its policy of "strategic ambiguity" with respect to nuclear weapons and delivery systems. The situation is made worse by the political protection offered to Israel by the USA over nuclear compliance and inspection.

As an editorial note, I would say that I would feel more comfortable in a world where Iran possessed nuclear weapons instead of volatile and unstable Pakistan. The argument that if Iran got nuclear weapons, then Saudi Arabia would get them has always struck me as absurd because as a condition for funding and assisting Pakistan in its nuclear programme, Saudi Arabia got a guarantee that Pakistan would supply it with nuclear weapons if the Saudi kingdom needed them in the future. So Saudi Arabia has been weeks away from being a nuclear-armed military power since the 1960's.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Fair enough and good explanations. That said I wonder how responsible the current Ukrainian leadership is in comparison to the one that gave up the nuclear weaponry. They seem to be a tad nuts with the inclusion of outright neonazis

I agree with you on the Iran situation btw
 
Wow , anyone might think you are calling for a murder there

How about a massive home dissent movement against US full spectrum global dominance as an option to lower world tensions ?

There's always going to be a "biggest kid". You want that that title should to China, or Russia?

When soldiers kill other soldiers, its not murder? But when politicians order the killing of other politicians to prevent the aforementioned soldiers killing soldiers...it is?
 
The US should announce a thirty year public / private moonshot with the goal of replacing oil

That should have actually commenced in 1978, after Carter made his "cardigan sweater" speech.
 
There's always going to be a "biggest kid". You want that that title should to China, or Russia?

It doesn't matter who it is because it is the position itself that is the real problem. If you want to think the US should carry on holding that title that's fine with me but just don't expect me to think if it were to be held by another it would necessarily be any worse
When soldiers kill other soldiers, its not murder?

Yep , no issue with that other than its still a waste of young lives in most cases

But when politicians order the killing of other politicians to prevent the aforementioned soldiers killing soldiers...it is?


What's the difference between a politician calling for the murder of another politician and you calling for the murder of a politician other than job titles ?
 
It doesn't matter who it is because it is the position itself that is the real problem. If you want to think the US should carry on holding that title that's fine with me but just don't expect me to think if it were to be held by another it would necessarily be any worse


Yep , no issue with that other than its still a waste of young lives in most cases




What's the difference between a politician calling for the murder of another politician and you calling for the murder of a politician other than job titles ?

Why is killing not murder when it's done by soldiers?
 
How can we take seriously Americans complaining about superpowers " dismembering " countries when your own has probably ensured the dismemberment of Iraq and Syria at some future date ?

I personally don't care what you take seriously.
 
They seem to be a tad nuts with the inclusion of outright neonazis.

1) Give us an example of "tad nuts".

2) Every Western nation has its "neonazis". Even Russia.
 
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