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The French go OTT on the Champs Elysees

See for yourself here.

Here's just one of them:
images


And another:
500_F_195083321_oYMTReYyLo58M4H5HGaBIJ8nnDPNRXU5.jpg


Both fakes, right?

Yeah, and you live on what planet ... ?
 
Lafayette said:
Well, the movement has to start somewhere because SOMETHING must be done. Like Donald Dork, you are minimizing the ultimate impact because you don't WANT to believe in it - which does not make it go away. Intentional ignorance-is-bliss for you but one helluva lot of people see otherwise!

For some of us, a dead whale that foundered on a beach tells the truth of what is happening. When they ripped upon its belly they found the reason why it died. It was stuffed with indigestible plastics! Don't wanna believe that. See just ONE photo of that happening:
1497025531023-DeadWhale1.jpeg


PS: Yeah, right - now tell me that the photo is faked!

There are many other photos just like that one above!

Those plastic bags polluting the seas is what "humans on planet Earth are doing in the aggregate" and you prefer evidently to remain ignorant of the facts ... !
Click to expand...

Oh well, if there what it takes for me to have cheap and safe disposable bags then I guess the whales better learn to love plastic
 
A lot of the French unemployment is structural and always has been. The labour market is not very flexible and that causes problems. It is a relatively easy fix, but the unions are against it and that means any changes are DOA.

Now these protests have external actors fingers all over them.

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Lafayette said:
From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).

Nope, they march right down the Champs-Elysees and wreak havoc on their way. Well, actually it was a bunch of nerdy young-adults with a grudge who did it - but, still ...
Click to expand...


I salute the French for this. Marcon is choking the life out of his nation for the Globalists and for this asinine hoax of man made global warming.
Not to mention, I believe allot of this pent up frustration has allot to do with the immigrant crisis in France.

European people continue their journey to Nationalism. And I salute them.
 
Lafayette said:
From the Independent here: It’s not surprising that fuel protests in Paris turned violent – the French establishment has long ignored social inequality

Excerpt:


It's a bit of a shame that a movement to awaken the present misery of those low on the economic totem-pole in France has gone so awry. Their demands are legitimate, but they do not understand the the president of France (Macron) is doing his best.

France had a Socialist president last time around, who is a brainy do-nothing intellectual. He got elected because the previous President (from the Right) was also a do-nothing president. That makes ten-years (between both of them) that France, evidently "broken", has needed to be fixed.
Click to expand...


LOL, Macron and Hollande and the presidents before him all had/have the same problems and have been struggling to deal with it. It is the unions basically and they are in part behind the protests.. being helped no doubt by money and expertise from unnamed countries.

But this president is evidently doing it in a way that hurts income for the bottom classes (who need income most just for daily living). His only mechanism, as in most countries, is his country's budget. And what the country lacks most is Internal Demand that creates jobs. Well, not enough and not soon enough. (The French are an impatient people.)
Click to expand...

Wrong. Frances problem is not the budget, but inflexible labour laws and regulations. Macron, and yes Hollande before him and all presidents the last 20 years.. have attempted time and time again to make the labour laws more flexible but have come in conflict with unions. It is the same with CAP from the EU.. France and the French government has said all along that CAP needs to come down and frankly be eliminated but they have a problem with their farmers who go crazy by filling the streets with cow **** and blocking roads in protest.

What most of the French do not understand is that the Treaty of Maastricht (that introduced the Euro) called for a maximum governmental deficit of not more than 3% of GDP. Today it is approaching 100%!
Click to expand...

Err no. The deficit can be no more than 3% during "good years", but is allowed to exceed during downturns. The DEBT, should not be higher than 60% of GDP, and most countries fail on this today.. even Germany last I looked. Yes the French is near 100% but that can change quickly if Macron can get growth going in the country.. which is hard when the labour market is so inflexible. Debt in % of GDP is such a stupid measure btw... did you know that Greece has actually reduced its debt the last decade... but its % of GDP has gone up?

The EU Central Bank is getting skittish, and rightfully so. But, the French are not a people to suffer-in-silence as do the Germans (or Nordics).
Click to expand...

The EU has barely any say... the French problems are French made.. just as the Spanish was Spanish and the Italian are Italian. As long as the labour market is so inflexible in France, then there wont be much of economic growth or jobs. But of course it is so much easier to blame the EU, Muslims or aliens from Mars for the problems than tackle them outright... and THAT is the core problem in most countries including my own.
 
Buzz62 said:
I salute the French for this. Marcon is choking the life out of his nation for the Globalists and for this asinine hoax of man made global warming.
Click to expand...

Nope. He raised the prices of motor fuels BECAUSE the French people largely wanted him to do so. It was also a campaign promise of his.

Most of Europe wants to get off the carbon-based fuels, but doesn't know how to do so. Particularly Germany.

Electric cars in France are expensive, but the French government subsidizes a part of that cost. Still, they remain nonetheless out of reach for most. And will remain so until volume manufacturing can reduce their per-unit costs.

Buzz62 said:
Not to mention, I believe allot of this pent up frustration has allot to do with the immigrant crisis in France.
Click to expand...

Nope, not in France anyway.

Elsewhere, it depends. The Germans have woken up to the fact that they needed the migrants because a lot of their own a retiring. The migrants, not terribly well educated, fit the bill at the lower end of the employment spectrum.

Europe will get over it. The migrant problem takes time. They will learn the local languages and fit in.

The issue of migrants is much more acute in the eastern-EU countries with smaller populations. The migrants engender a fear that they will take away "local jobs" - which is the main problem of assimilation in these countries.

Europe has a history of such. The French assimilated a great many from their African colonies. The Germans from Greece particularly. Etc., etc. It is really nothing new.

In two years time, we wont even be talking about "the invading horde". They are, in the long run, economically beneficial ...

PS: Migrants have been coming to Europe from both Africa and the Middle-east for centuries. This time around, however, it was not in small quantities but somewhat like an invading horde. Which is why it antagonized the local gentry.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Oh well, if there what it takes for me to have cheap and safe disposable bags then I guess the whales better learn to love plastic
Click to expand...

They'll more than like die-off first.

Not to worry, we humans will follow the same fate. It's already started with the increase in world temperatures. Which means, it is only a matter of time ...
 
Lafayette said:
They'll more than like die-off first.

Not to worry, we humans will follow the same fate. It's already started with the increase in world temperatures. Which means, it is only a matter of time ...
Click to expand...

Modest temperature rise will be a massive benefit for humanity


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I always had a feeling Macron was a scumbag. Looks like now the French citizenry themselves now share that sympathy...
 
Abbazorkzog said:
I always had a feeling Macron was a scumbag. Looks like now the French citizenry themselves now share that sympathy...
Click to expand...

The French citizenry is doing nothing of the sort.

For convenience's sake I'll c&p a post of mine made in the other thread to here:

What started out as a (purported) discontent over fuel prices was and is a general discontent over all sorts of austerity. With the "general" applying more to the discontent but not so much to the French people overall.

As such, unless you happened to be at the Champs Elysée last weekend, as a Parisian you wouldn't have been treated to the sight of any chaos at all but have learned of it solely from the TV. Over 90 % of Paris having been peaceful and devoid of any disruption whatsoever.

But protests that are supposed to garner attention are of course best conducted in locations that find focus anyway, it's a proven method of making the number of protesters look far larger than it actually is.

In all of this it should also not be forgotten that the small but consistently stable number of "chaotics" will jump on any bus that affords them the opportunity of going violently destructive. With that group ranging from radical right to radical left and gleefully closing ranks whenever seeing a chance of "having a good time", irrespective of what current issue they use as an excuse.

Yet comparing this current brouhaha to the riots of 1968 (as some media and other talking heads in France seem prone to do) shows those doing that as not yet even having been around in 1968.
 
Lafayette said:
Nope. He raised the prices of motor fuels BECAUSE the French people largely wanted him to do so. It was also a campaign promise of his.

Most of Europe wants to get off the carbon-based fuels, but doesn't know how to do so. Particularly Germany.

Electric cars in France are expensive, but the French government subsidizes a part of that cost. Still, they remain nonetheless out of reach for most. And will remain so until volume manufacturing can reduce their per-unit costs.
Click to expand...


Ya it looks like they wanted this...doesn't it...:roll:

Lafayette said:
Nope, not in France anyway.

Elsewhere, it depends. The Germans have woken up to the fact that they needed the migrants because a lot of their own a retiring. The migrants, not terribly well educated, fit the bill at the lower end of the employment spectrum.

Europe will get over it. The migrant problem takes time. They will learn the local languages and fit in.

The issue of migrants is much more acute in the eastern-EU countries with smaller populations. The migrants engender a fear that they will take away "local jobs" - which is the main problem of assimilation in these countries.

Europe has a history of such. The French assimilated a great many from their African colonies. The Germans from Greece particularly. Etc., etc. It is really nothing new.

In two years time, we wont even be talking about "the invading horde". They are, in the long run, economically beneficial ...

PS: Migrants have been coming to Europe from both Africa and the Middle-east for centuries. This time around, however, it was not in small quantities but somewhat like an invading horde. Which is why it antagonized the local gentry.
Click to expand...

OMG...
Calais has had numerous protests and so has Paris.
Really man...it's not true just because you want it to be...
 
BRAIN RATHER THAN BRAWN

PeteEU said:
The EU has barely any say... As long as the labour market is so inflexible in France, then there wont be much of economic growth or jobs. But of course it is so much easier to blame the EU, Muslims or aliens from Mars for the problems than tackle them outright... and THAT is the core problem in most countries including my own.
Click to expand...

The inflexibility of labor-markets today is an overhang from promises made a long time ago to "protect workers".

The only real protection workers have, in the long-run (where we all live our lives) - is a dynamic market in which we change along with it. Which the French, in particular, are adverse to doing. They really don't like change (unless its a TV-channel).

But what you have said overlooks the key challenge that is happening in ANY developed economy. It is "age-change" and that has nothing to do with how old any one is.

More importantly, it is a change of "ages". That is, we are progressing out of the Industrial Age and into the Information Age. Which means employment is more a question of brain than brawn. Goods-Industries have been leaking away from Europe (and the US) to cheap-labor China, and even from China to lower-cost southeast Asia.

Whilst Services-Industries now account for almost 85% of all employment in the US. (I can't find the figure for the EU, but the percentage must be only a bit smaller.) Services-Industries are information-orientated - like banking, or insurance or education or media or retailing. Etc., etc., etc.

For Services Industries more often than not a higher level of talent (and therefore education) is necessary. But the EU lags behind the US in terms of the percentage of the population completing a higher degree-level. See here.

The US graduates 45% of its population to a professional degree level (associates or above), whilst Canada graduates 55%. And the difference in the two, I feel, is due to the financial difficulties that are more severe in pursuing a degree-course in the US. But a postsecondary degree education in Canada costs less than in the US. From here:
For undergraduate courses in Canada, tuition fees range from around $5,000 – $20,000 per year.

For undergraduate courses in USA, tuition fees start from about $23,000 per year and it is widely accepted to be one of the most expensive countries to study in for international students. However, there is a lot of financial help available in the USA.
Click to expand...

In terms of "financial help", there's a great deal more in Europe than either Canada or the US. Typical postsecondary degree fees in the EU are less than a kilobuck a year. So, how does Canada graduate so many more postsecondary students than Europe?

Good question ... !
 
According to opinion polls, Macron is rather unpopular.

The Yellow Jacket protests appear to have considerable popular support, and the government has now postponed the fuel price rises for 6 months.

My view is that they'll keep postponing them now.

This is, on any logical interpretation, a defeat for Macron who has bowed to street protests, something he said he would never do.
 
Westphalian said:
According to opinion polls, Macron is rather unpopular.

The Yellow Jacket protests appear to have considerable popular support, and the government has now postponed the fuel price rises for 6 months.

My view is that they'll keep postponing them now.

This is, on any logical interpretation, a defeat for Macron who has bowed to street protests, something he said he would never do.
Click to expand...

He's done like dinner as far as I'm concerned.
The next election in France is gonna be very interesting.
Can you say, President LePen?
 
Buzz62 said:
He's done like dinner as far as I'm concerned.
The next election in France is gonna be very interesting.
Can you say, President LePen?
Click to expand...
Would take a radical and massive shift in french society for Le Pen get elected. The numbers are against her.

1) She is under investigation for corruption...not sure she can run with a conviction.
2) The French left and right have traditionally banded together to defeat FN candidates in run offs.
3) She would have to be hitting near 40+% of the vote in the first round to even have a hope of winning. She got 21.3% in the last presidential election in the first round. Macron got 24%. In the second round she only got 33% while Macron got 66%.

So unless there is a change in election laws or a dramatic shift in French society... the Le Pen has no chance. She was lucky to get to the second round last time... we are talking over 1/3 of all french voters switching to FN.. not impossible but highly unlikely.

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PeteEU said:
Would take a radical and massive shift in french society for Le Pen get elected. The numbers are against her.

1) She is under investigation for corruption...not sure she can run with a conviction.
2) The French left and right have traditionally banded together to defeat FN candidates in run offs.
3) She would have to be hitting near 40+% of the vote in the first round to even have a hope of winning. She got 21.3% in the last presidential election in the first round. Macron got 24%. In the second round she only got 33% while Macron got 66%.

So unless there is a change in election laws or a dramatic shift in French society... the Le Pen has no chance. She was lucky to get to the second round last time... we are talking over 1/3 of all french voters switching to FN.. not impossible but highly unlikely.

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The longer Macron continues to hammer on the middle and lower classes, and the longer this despicable immigration policy continues...the more likely LePen is to win.
 
Buzz62 said:
The longer Macron continues to hammer on the middle and lower classes, and the longer this despicable immigration policy continues...the more likely LePen is to win.
Click to expand...

What "despicable immigration policy"?

And hammering the middle and lower classes is needed, along with the upper classes. France needs structural reform in the labour market and LePen wont do anything because she blames coloured people for all the ills of France.

Do you know how hard it is to fire someone in France?
 
Lafayette said:
BRAIN RATHER THAN BRAWN

The inflexibility of labor-markets today is an overhang from promises made a long time ago to "protect workers".
Click to expand...

And? It is also one of the root causes of unemployment in France, Spain and Italy..

The only real protection workers have, in the long-run (where we all live our lives) - is a dynamic market in which we change along with it. Which the French, in particular, are adverse to doing. They really don't like change (unless its a TV-channel).
Click to expand...

Yes and no.. 2 different things.

But what you have said overlooks the key challenge that is happening in ANY developed economy. It is "age-change" and that has nothing to do with how old any one is.

More importantly, it is a change of "ages". That is, we are progressing out of the Industrial Age and into the Information Age. Which means employment is more a question of brain than brawn. Goods-Industries have been leaking away from Europe (and the US) to cheap-labor China, and even from China to lower-cost southeast Asia.

Whilst Services-Industries now account for almost 85% of all employment in the US. (I can't find the figure for the EU, but the percentage must be only a bit smaller.) Services-Industries are information-orientated - like banking, or insurance or education or media or retailing. Etc., etc., etc.

For Services Industries more often than not a higher level of talent (and therefore education) is necessary. But the EU lags behind the US in terms of the percentage of the population completing a higher degree-level. See here.

The US graduates 45% of its population to a professional degree level (associates or above), whilst Canada graduates 55%. And the difference in the two, I feel, is due to the financial difficulties that are more severe in pursuing a degree-course in the US. But a postsecondary degree education in Canada costs less than in the US. From here:
Click to expand...

First off all, the EU has no influence on this subject so saying "the EU lags behind" is beyond stupid.

Secondly if you look at your own list a majority of countries above the average are in fact European countries.

Thirdly, I am sceptical of such comparisons because of the definitions issue. I know for a fact that the Danish numbers are wrong. Official statistics state that 85% of 35 year olds in Denmark have a "professional education", while 65 year olds only had 74%.

In terms of "financial help", there's a great deal more in Europe than either Canada or the US. Typical postsecondary degree fees in the EU are less than a kilobuck a year. So, how does Canada graduate so many more postsecondary students than Europe?

Good question ... !
Click to expand...

As stated above.. do they? If you go hunting, you will find wildly different numbers based on different definitions and the reporting from individual countries...
 
PeteEU said:
What "despicable immigration policy"?

And hammering the middle and lower classes is needed, along with the upper classes. France needs structural reform in the labour market and LePen wont do anything because she blames coloured people for all the ills of France.

Do you know how hard it is to fire someone in France?
Click to expand...

I consider this Merkel/Macron/EU immigrant/refugee policy despicable and destroying the European society and culture. These are worth saving, as far as I and millions of others, and the number is growing, believe. The tenants of globalization is friggin over the lower and middle classes and it'll be a cold day in hell before the rich allow it to screw them...and you know it.
 
PeteEU said:
And? It is also one of the root causes of unemployment in France, Spain and Italy..
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Unions are absolute necessities as a counter-power to the vested interests of the owners of production in any market-economy.

You are ignorant of the Union Movement prior to its inception as credible means defending worker rights. I suggest you read how men, women and children were paid a pittance to extract coal in the 19th century as Europe entered the Industrial Age (the main source of energy was coal.) Coal miners had a life-span on average ten-years before anyone else.

Any fair and equitable economy DOES NOT NEED dominance of either Labor or Industry to determine wages. It needs negotiations between the two to establish a "fair price of labor input". Whatever that price-level, Labor will live lives of well-being and Capitalists will earn millions if not billions.

That is the way of any FAIR free-market and it is up to the voters to decide what the Income Disparity is within THEIR nation!

The root causes of unemployment are Consumer Demand. Take a course in EC101 ...

PeteEU said:
First off all, the EU has no influence on this subject so saying "the EU lags behind" is beyond stupid.
Click to expand...

"Stupid" is neither knowing nor recognizing that the EU may not have a President or Prime Minister, but does have a parliament in Strasbourg.

It just has to get its priorities right. Which will happen inevitably.

PeteEU said:
Thirdly, I am sceptical of such comparisons because of the definitions issue. I know for a fact that the Danish numbers are wrong. Official statistics state that 85% of 35 year olds in Denmark have a "professional education", while 65 year olds only had 74%.
Click to expand...

Income Disparity (look-up the definition because it is apparently missing from your noggin) has been measured by Economists since the get-go. Here is its evolution over recent past history for developed countries:
screen_shot_2013-11-027.jpg


EU taxation assures that Income Disparity is not OTT as it is in the US.
 
Buzz62 said:
Can you say, President LePen?

The next election in France is gonna be very interesting.
Click to expand...

LePen is under investigation by the EU for illegal procedures in her parliamentary office located in Strasbourg. Apparently her office there was being subsidized for workers who were actually in her party's Parisian head-office. Which is illegal according to the established rules.

The next election in France is going to be without LePen ... ?

Buzz62 said:
He's done like dinner as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

You hope.

But not the least bit evident in a country that is politically highly fickle ...
 
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Lafayette said:
Unions are absolute necessities as a counter-power to the vested interests of the owners of production in any market-economy.

You are ignorant of the Union Movement prior to its inception as credible means defending worker rights. I suggest you read how men, women and children were paid a pittance to extract coal in the 19th century as Europe entered the Industrial Age (the main source of energy was coal.) Coal miners had a life-span on average ten-years before anyone else.

Any fair and equitable economy DOES NOT NEED dominance of either Labor or Industry to determine wages. It needs negotiations between the two to establish a "fair price of labor input". Whatever that price-level, Labor will live lives of well-being and Capitalists will earn millions if not billions.

That is the way of any FAIR free-market and it is up to the voters to decide what the Income Disparity is within THEIR nation!
Click to expand...

Hardly ignorant and I agree that unions are in general a needed counterweight to the powers of owners. However this whole system needs to be in near balance. In France unions have WAY too much power and actually dictate legislation across the board, where as in the US it is the owners/corporations who have all the power and they dictate legislation. And that is my point for both countries... take Germany or Denmark. Yes unions have power, but it not this overwhelming "do as we say" power and the same goes for owners/corporations. In France, as we have seen many times.. unions have stop progress in market liberalisation (Italy is FAR worse) and labour efficiency.

The root causes of unemployment are Consumer Demand. Take a course in EC101 ...
Click to expand...

Yes but most EC101 classes are based on the flawed and outdated American economic model and do not take into consideration the power of either unions or owners. There can be no consumer demand if the consumers dont have money. In France the consumer demand is low because people dont have jobs.. and they dont have jobs because companies dont want to invest in jobs as it is far too expensive to fire people relative to the potential benefit. You had/have the same problem in Spain.. Example.. a local urbanisation here hired a gardener on a contract.. big mistake. He was an idiot but it was cheaper for the urbanisation to higher another gardener and keep the idiot on the payroll than it was to fire him. This has now thankfully changed some what in Spain but it still exists in France and Italy.

Oh and what the American economic model in the EC101 classes never takes into account is historical society aspects... like Europeans on average tend not to spend like crazies, where Americans and Brits (now) do. That Italians dont like credit cards, but Brits do. That Danes tend to save up and pay off debt than go out and buy a new TV. None of this is part of EC101 last I looked and has everything to do with the economies of countries.

I remember reading that Spain has one of the highest rates of home ownership, and instantly American inspired economists linked this to high debt and the Spanish crisis. They could have not been more wrong. You see, in Spain most people inherit their homes from their parents. So one family lives in the same house for generations.. it is very common. Another classic is bitching about the Italian debt problem.. yes, Italy has a high debt load, but like Japan (who has double of Italy) most of that debt is owed to Italians themselves. It is stuff like this, that often gets forgotten in economic debates with the typical American inspired economic theory fanatics.

"Stupid" is neither knowing nor recognizing that the EU may not have a President or Prime Minister, but does have a parliament in Strasbourg.

It just has to get its priorities right. Which will happen inevitably.
Click to expand...

And? It is still not part of what the EU can or will meddle in. And the EU does have a President.. he is an office manager, but hey he has a title.

Income Disparity (look-up the definition because it is apparently missing from your noggin) has been measured by Economists since the get-go. Here is its evolution over recent past history for developed countries:
screen_shot_2013-11-027.jpg


EU taxation assures that Income Disparity is not OTT as it is in the US.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with anything.. and thanks for proving my point. The US has high income disparity and supposedly high "higher education" numbers.. err okay that does not compute. You do understand that the lower the income disparity the better right?
 
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Buzz62 said:
I consider this Merkel/Macron/EU immigrant/refugee policy despicable and destroying the European society and culture. These are worth saving, as far as I and millions of others, and the number is growing, believe. The tenants of globalization is friggin over the lower and middle classes and it'll be a cold day in hell before the rich allow it to screw them...and you know it.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. All the money in the world cannot buy the people's will as expressed at the ballot-box. Which is happening only uniquely in the EU.

The US elections have been "bought" (lock, stock and barrel) over the past two centuries by both Gerrymandering and recently unlimited funding of mostly stoopid TV commercials as if electing a politician was like selling soap-powder that claimed it "washed whiter than white!"

Stoopid is a stoopid does ...
 
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