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UK Orders Background Checks on 3,000 Foreign Born Doctors after Psychiatrist Scandal

truthatallcost said:
For what feels like the one millionth time- holding a degree in biology is not a qualification to practice psychiatry. She has no qualifications in her field.
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I know she doesn't have the required qualification for her job. So no, please don't lie and shift the goalposts. Did you or did you not say she had no qualifications?

truthatallcost said:
'Diversity is good, and therefore immigration is good', isn't a defendable position. That's why all who attempt it eventually resort to the great debating strategy of name calling.
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At what point did I say "Diversity is good, and therefore immigration is good?" That yet another lying tactic to put false words into an opponent's mouth?
 
Manc Skipper said:
A person born in New Zealand is as British as an American. You have a curiously racist worldview which I really can't puzzle out, and don't particularly want to.
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Manc, meet Manc.

Manc Skipper said:
The naztive population of NZ isn't white. Those are the mostly British immigrants. For your information.
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Hope you two can get your story straight.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I know she doesn't have the required qualification for her job.
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Great, then this particular merry go round is over. You just admitted I was right when I said:

truthatallcost said:
Prior to entering the UK and being allowed to set up shop with no qualifications..
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So no, please don't lie and shift the goalposts. Did you or did you not say she had no qualifications?
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Potato.

At what point did I say "Diversity is good, and therefore immigration is good?" That yet another lying tactic to put false words into an opponent's mouth?
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Why is immigration good then? Why is it particularly needed in 2018?
 
truthatallcost said:
For what feels like the one millionth time- holding a degree in biology is not a qualification to practice psychiatry. She has no qualifications in her field.

'Diversity is good, and therefore immigration is good', isn't a defendable position. That's why all who attempt it eventually resort to the great debating strategy of name calling.
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You do know that without immigration the UK health system would crash and burn.

37% of UK doctors have a foreign primary medical qualification. 10% of UK doctors are EU citizens. Close to 7% of the nurses are EU citizens. A departure from those people (only from the UK) would devastate the UK health care system. Thus in the NHS immigration is not only good it is critical for the health now and in the future of the NHS.
 
Peter King said:
You do know that without immigration the UK health system would crash and burn.

37% of UK doctors have a foreign primary medical qualification. 10% of UK doctors are EU citizens. Close to 7% of the nurses are EU citizens. A departure from those people (only from the UK) would devastate the UK health care system. Thus in the NHS immigration is not only good it is critical for the health now and in the future of the NHS.
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Not sure about UK stats, but medical error was the 3rd leading cause of preventable deaths in the USA. We find ourselves in the predicament of needing foreign born doctors partly due to an increase in foreign born citizens and non citizens. That's how the crisis was created in the first place. Doctors now spend 5 minutes or less per patient, due to work overload. This is probably another reality you don't deal with in the Netherlands however.
 
Grand Mal said:
You guys. Damn. Some Americans will see a black customs agent, umpteen generations American, talking to a Russian immigrant and say the black guy represents diversity. Do you really think 'homogenous' means all the same complexion?
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No, but the Netherlands are 85% white European. Attack them GM!
 
truthatallcost said:
No, but the Netherlands are 85% white European. Attack them GM!
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So European means homogenous? An Irishman, a Spaniard and a Pole in a cafe in Amsterdam is 'homogenous'? News for you, bud- you and a black American and a Hispanic American (and those other two guys might well have several generations in the US over you) you guys represent homogeneity much better than those white Europeans in the cafe. Those white Europeans might be there all day trying to find something in common beyond their complexions. Well, their compexions and soccer, though the Irishman might not give a damn about that either.
 
Grand Mal said:
So European means homogenous? An Irishman, a Spaniard and a Pole in a cafe in Amsterdam is 'homogenous'?
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In the Netherlands, its 80% Dutch. This was what I was referring to when I used the term homogeneous.

News for you, bud- you and a black American and a Hispanic American (and those other two guys might well have several generations in the US over you) you guys represent homogeneity much better than those white Europeans in the cafe. Those white Europeans might be there all day trying to find something in common beyond their complexions. Well, their compexions and soccer, though the Irishman might not give a damn about that either.
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My American ancestry traces as far back as the 17th century. My Californian ancestry goes back to before California was a state. My great uncle traced our Irish roots back to Ireland, and took a trip back. He arranged a meeting with some of them, who were so kind, they invited him to stay with them, which he did. There's commonality in values there; they'd never met my uncle, and immediately offered for him to stay with them. Won't find that kind of hospitality in the US anymore, unless its in the dreaded South, which we're all taught is a horrid place.

I have no problem with black or Latino Americans. I live amongst them, remember? How about you?
 
truthatallcost said:
In the Netherlands, its 80% Dutch. This was what I was referring to when I used the term homogeneous.



My American ancestry traces as far back as the 17th century. My Californian ancestry goes back to before California was a state. My great uncle traced our Irish roots back to Ireland, and took a trip back. He arranged a meeting with some of them, who were so kind, they invited him to stay with them, which he did. There's commonality in values there; they'd never met my uncle, and immediately offered for him to stay with them. Won't find that kind of hospitality in the US anymore, unless its in the dreaded South, which we're all taught is a horrid place.

I have no problem with black or Latino Americans. I live amongst them, remember? How about you?
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How about me what? I'm second-generation Canadian, I don't have any Canadian grandparents. That still makes me an old-timer here- 20% (1/5) of Canadians were born somewhere else. We dont worry about 'homogenous' here though, or 'assimilation'. We dont see our society as a melting pot, more like a mosaic. Works for us, and elsewhere too.
 
truthatallcost said:
Great, then this particular merry go round is over
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the merry go round is just you trying to deny a lie you made.

truthatallcost said:
~ Potato.
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Nice admission. You lied. We're done.

truthatallcost said:
Why is immigration good then? Why is it particularly needed in 2018?
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UK Healthcare professionals leave for the US, Canada and Australia where they are better paid and work less hours. We then raid the Spain / Philippines / South Africa and other countries for their healthcare professionals.
​Do you know nothing?
 
truthatallcost said:
Not sure about UK stats, but medical error was the 3rd leading cause of preventable deaths in the USA. We find ourselves in the predicament of needing foreign born doctors partly due to an increase in foreign born citizens and non citizens. That's how the crisis was created in the first place. Doctors now spend 5 minutes or less per patient, due to work overload. This is probably another reality you don't deal with in the Netherlands however.
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Well, I am sure about those statistics, very sure actually. I got them from the House of Commons library, article title "NHS staff from overseas: Statistics".
The page can be found here.

And now we are talking about preventable deaths in the USA? Because we were talking about the UK and it's NHS. According to the office of National Statistics in the UK, the biggest causes for "avoidable mortality rates by broad cause group" are:

1. neoplasms
2. cardiovascular disease
3. injuries
4. respiratory diseases
5. drugs use disorder
6. other

You find yourselves in the predicament of needing foreign educated doctors, because not all foreign trained doctors are foreign born doctors, because the US does not have a proper health care system like in the UK or in a lot of European countries. In the US it is the high number of non-insured people who do not go for regular health checks or who can afford their medications, that has created the crisis.

Because if there is no health care system, there is no money or incentive to build enough hospitals, give out proper preventative care where the primary treatment of illnesses and accidents in their local doctor rather than an emergency room or a hospital itself.

And it is true, we do not deal with that in the Netherlands because there are enough hospitals here, everybody (virtually everybody) has medical insurance that pays for all your basic health care costs and when I see my doctor the minimum time reserved for each consult is a minimum of 10 minutes and if you have a more difficult issue (instead of coming to the doctor because you have the sniffles) you get a minimum of 20 minutes. And when I go to the hospital it takes as long as it takes, normally appointments are made with 30 minutes or so per patient.

None of this is the fault of immigrants in the US or foreign born doctors. The problem is an unwillingness on some people to create a good healthcare system because of the insane idea that a proper healthcare system is socialism.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
the merry go round is just you trying to deny a lie you made.



Nice admission. You lied. We're done.
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Wrong. You admitted I'd been right the whole time.


UK Healthcare professionals leave for the US, Canada and Australia where they are better paid and work less hours. We then raid the Spain / Philippines / South Africa and other countries for their healthcare professionals.
​Do you know nothing?
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And that's your argument for why immigration is good? This thread has been a dozen fails for you by now.
 
truthatallcost said:
Prior to entering the UK and being allowed to set up shop with no qualifications, Alemi had been working in Pakistan. Her surname is Iranian, nationality is New Zealander.

I understand you're looking for any excuse to attack this thread, but even you realize that someone born in New Zealand is indeed a foreigner, if they move to the UK.
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Here's the kicker though...
A fake psychiatrist who worked for decades in the NHS without any medical qualifications passed supposedly strengthened checks just five years ago.
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:crazy3:

The General Medical Council claimed that the conwoman, who arrived in the UK from New Zealand, took advantage of less stringent rules in the 1990s which allowed doctors from Commonwealth countries to apply to work in Britain by simply presenting their qualification documents without sitting exams.

But yesterday it emerged that she was ‘re-validated’ to remain on the GMC register in 2013, soon after the introduction of stricter rules designed to ensure all doctors stay up to date with their fields of medicine.

In addition, Alemi acted as a ‘responsible officer’ for other doctors, which gave her the power to raise concerns or sign off their own revalidations.
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:shock:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ked-22-years-bogus-degree-validated-2013.html
 
Peter King said:
Well, I am sure about those statistics, very sure actually. I got them from the House of Commons library, article title "NHS staff from overseas: Statistics".
The page can be found here.

And now we are talking about preventable deaths in the USA? Because we were talking about the UK and it's NHS. According to the office of National Statistics in the UK, the biggest causes for "avoidable mortality rates by broad cause group" are:

1. neoplasms
2. cardiovascular disease
3. injuries
4. respiratory diseases
5. drugs use disorder
6. other
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Leave it to the British government to complicate a subject that should be straightforward and simple to grasp. Instead, they classify the two leading causes of mortality overall as being preventable. It's basic knowledge in the medical industry that nearly everyone who lives to old age will be effected by heart trouble or cancer at some point, if they live long enough. That's an unpreventable reality of being human, and the same on a global scale. Cancer and heart disease deaths may be lessened to a small extent by maintaining healthy habits or early detection + treatment, but there's no evidence that they're 'preventable'.
 
Peter King said:
You find yourselves in the predicament of needing foreign educated doctors, because not all foreign trained doctors are foreign born doctors, because the US does not have a proper health care system like in the UK or in a lot of European countries. In the US it is the high number of non-insured people who do not go for regular health checks or who can afford their medications, that has created the crisis.


None of this is the fault of immigrants in the US or foreign born doctors. The problem is an unwillingness on some people to create a good healthcare system because of the insane idea that a proper healthcare system is socialism.
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Again, you're completely overlooking the population factor. Why do you believe that a country of 17 million people is comparable to one with 350 million? Half of the US' population doesn't pay into the system, yet the system is expected to care for them.

The rise in uninsured Americans parallels the population increase of the last 40 years. The USA population grew by roughly 1/3, or over 100M people since the 1980 census. Population growth since 1980 has consisted of mostly non-white immigration from poor countries. The economy also changed dramatically in this time period, with good manufacturing jobs being sent overseas, and low skilled American labor shifting to service based jobs, which don't include employer provided health benefits. The resulting effects of immigration and the switch to a service based economy helped to contribute to the weakening of labor unions, which had previously fought for employee health benefits.

Since at least 1980, the United States has faced the twin problems of increasing numbers of uninsured and rising health costs.

In the USA, hospitals in areas with large numbers of immigrants seeking care have been forced to close altogether, from being overburdened with non-paying/non-insured people seeking care. When one of these hospitals closes, it lessens the quality of healthcare available to Americans who relied on the hospital for care. 84 hospitals have been forced out of operation in my state alone:

Even though illegal immigrants are not supposed to utilize public health care programs, they still cost us billions, and that cost is passed on the Americans through higher medical care expenses:

All told, Americans cross-subsidize health care for unauthorized immigrants to the tune of $18.5 billion a year
federal taxpayers provided $11.2 billion in subsidized care to unauthorized immigrants in 2016

I recently did an interesting interview with Dan Gorenstein, a health care reporter with station WHYY and NPR's radio business show Marketplace on the issue of tax-financed health care for unauthorized immigrants [1]. The piece that aired did not include any of my remarks, but I thought it would be useful to give readers my perspective on this knotty policy question based on both background research I did to prepare for the interview and follow-on research I did in light of the questions posed in the interview.

Current federal policy is to prohibit federal tax funding of health care to unauthorized immigrants through either Medicaid or Obamacare. Nevertheless, rough estimates suggest that the nation's 3.9 million uninsured immigrants who are unauthorized likely receive about $4.6 billion in health services paid for by federal taxes, $2.8 billion in health services financed by state and local taxpayers, another $3.0 bankrolled through "cost-shifting" i.e., higher payments by insured patients to cover hospital uncompensated care losses, and roughly $1.5 billion in physician charity care. In addition to these amounts, unauthorized immigrants likely benefit from at least $0.9 billion in implicit federal subsidies due to the tax exemption for nonprofit hospitals and another $5.7 billion in tax expenditures from the employer tax exclusion.

All told, Americans cross-subsidize health care for unauthorized immigrants to the tune of $18.5 billion a year.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...are-for-undocumented-immigrants/#356bd0bc12c4

I don't understand why people think healthcare quality and insurance are supposed to somehow improve by adding 100 million low skilled Americans to the population, all of whom need healthcare.
 
truthatallcost said:
Thanks trix, I hadn't seen that. So even after knowing Alemi wasn't qualified, she was recertified to practice psychiatry, likely due to her minority status. Shocking. If it's possible for the family of the victim to sue the government for corruption and gross incompetence in this matter, I'd highly support them doing so.
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You'd support virtually any measures against minorities in Europe. This thread is simply another avenue for you to spew.
 
truthatallcost said:
Wrong. You admitted I'd been right the whole time.

And that's your argument for why immigration is good? This thread has been a dozen fails for you by now.
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Haha. If so, you can point to specific posts. I can point out where you claim she has no qualifications. That alone proves that you not only lie badly but then foolishly claim to have won an argument.
 
truthatallcost said:
Leave it to the British government to complicate a subject that should be straightforward and simple to grasp. Instead, they classify the two leading causes of mortality overall as being preventable. It's basic knowledge in the medical industry that nearly everyone who lives to old age will be effected by heart trouble or cancer at some point, if they live long enough. That's an unpreventable reality of being human, and the same on a global scale. Cancer and heart disease deaths may be lessened to a small extent by maintaining healthy habits or early detection + treatment, but there's no evidence that they're 'preventable'.
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There are preventable cancers and death is often also preventable if the cancer is detected early enough. The same goes for heart disease, exercise, healthy eating, etc. etc. will prevent deaths from heart disease by preventing such heart disease.

But the issue is that death due doctor mistakes is not that prevalent according to this list, also, all doctors make mistakes, even the best educated ones.
 
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