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Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked, we

Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
Both sides have been accusing each other of breaching the INF for years and both sides were most likely correct. I don't see how the current development changes all that much in anything.
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Feigned legitimacy. Now there is nothing to pressure him with.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
Feigned legitimacy. Now there is nothing to pressure him with.
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When an agreement is not honoured by any side, it doesn't deserve the paper it's written on.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
When an agreement is not honoured by any side, it doesn't deserve the paper it's written on.
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Outside parties could still refer to it. Now there's nothing.

Tell me how this isn't entirely in Putin's favor?
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
I'm not prone to call EVERYone supporting Putin a Russian troll and actually not totally sure that even Westphalian is in Glavset's pay. But the illogical stance and puerile arguments used by some, all the way to outright lying, are strikingly similar to the Olgino MO and exaggerated preference for Russian news sources as providing evidence doesn't help their reputation much either.
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Russias sources are quite often exagerated sometimes they are dead on, their goal is not always to troll, though the russian people love to troll, often times russian propoganda is for the purpose of fear, if new system are demonstrated and work they win,l as every battle deterred and not needed to be fought is a victory, and sometimes victory is not in the battle field but in the news.

But either way this whole russian troll thing has been a joke, everywhere they tried to purge them they found out the people were no bots or paid, and ended up looking like a campaign to silence dissent on the internet. Insert any name you want, soros paid troll, white nationalist troll, a bot paid for by russians to support trump, peta supporting bots etc, you will see this has been nothing more than a lazy attempt to silence opposing views, as debunking views or presenting counter facts requires thought and effort.

the internet is becoming myway or the highway in terms of thought, and the ones screaming loudest about lack of free speech are usually the ones oppressing it, like their view is the only free view, welcome to the 2018 political divide.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
Not the Winter War, no. The Continuation War, yes. Simo "The White Death" Häyhä didn't partake in the latter. We'll never know if that made the difference.
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The Finns definitely lost the Winter War as well. The Soviets wanted to take some Finnish territory and they did. The territory they took remains with Russia to this day.

CEngelbrecht said:
"Only," huh? Do they still pay you guys in vodka?

How to Spot a Russian Troll | Time
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Ah, so you can no longer refute facts and resort to name calling. How predictable.

Litwin said:
so you believe to what Georgian Thief_in_law Koba said (not him but his propaganda) . and what "Stalin only wanted" to gove UPR, BPR. 3 Baltic States, Poland, 3 south Coucasian independent republics (actually Georgia was under USA protection) , etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law
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Stalin wanted to expand his northern territory for a buffer zone with Finland, that was it. The Soviets could have taken the whole country, but they knew a war with Germany was coming, so instead of having to extend their lines too far, they stopped. They were also worried about the Japanese in the East and wanted troops over there, so that played into their strategy.

You must also remember that the Soviets took Warsaw and Berlin at the end of the war, so they definitely had the capability to take the whole of Finland too if they wanted it.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
Neither Sweden or Finland are in NATO. Which is why Pewtin sneaks minisubs into Swedish fiords and has fighter jets violating Swedish air space.
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The mini sub story was a farce and western propaganda piece, and the Swedes eventually concluded there never was a mini sub.

As for violations of Swedish air space, these have never happened either. That Russia aircraft fly near Swedish airspace is inevitable but perfectly legal.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

beerftw said:
Everyone is a russian troll, the new way to shut down discussion, anyone not thinking the way I think must be a paid russian troll. This is the new reality, the internet has given people an open voice and many of those on the internet have been against opposing views, either labelling them russian trolls, or soros paid trolls, or shills etc.
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Yes, a thousand times.

I've lost track of how often I've been called an Olgino troll and a liar. I am neither, but there's little point in responding to these people who seek, as you say, to close down discussion unless it's within parameters they define as reasonable.

Certainly, having a Russian voice and perspective is unacceptable because in Western prop world only brainwashed Russians, intimidated Russians, or paid trolls could possibly support anything the Putin government says or does.

I mean, all right minded people know for an absolute sacred fact that Russia is evil and the West is good. From this central article of faith everything else follows naturally.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
The Finns definitely lost the Winter War as well. The Soviets wanted to take some Finnish territory and they did. The territory they took remains with Russia to this day.
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They busted their ass, tavarisch.



PoS said:
How predictable.
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Yep. That it is. There is no free will.

PoS said:
Stalin wanted to expand his northern territory for a buffer zone with Finland, that was it. The Soviets could have taken the whole country, but they knew a war with Germany was coming, so instead of having to extend their lines too far, they stopped. They were also worried about the Japanese in the East and wanted troops over there, so that played into their strategy.
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So it was the threats of geopolitics that kept back Stalin. Not respect for their neighbours. Let the millions bleed in the name of the cult, like all the other religions before his.

PoS said:
You must also remember that the Soviets took Warsaw and Berlin at the end of the war, so they definitely had the capability to take the whole of Finland too if they wanted it.
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Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
The mini sub story was a farce and western propaganda piece, and the Swedes eventually concluded there never was a mini sub.

As for violations of Swedish air space, these have never happened either. That Russia aircraft fly near Swedish airspace is inevitable but perfectly legal.
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The Swedes did not eventually conclude there never was a mini sub. And Russian fighters jets did violate Swedish air space, more than once.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
Yes, a thousand times.

I've lost track of how often I've been called an Olgino troll and a liar. I am neither, but there's little point in responding to these people who seek, as you say, to close down discussion unless it's within parameters they define as reasonable.

Certainly, having a Russian voice and perspective is unacceptable because in Western prop world only brainwashed Russians, intimidated Russians, or paid trolls could possibly support anything the Putin government says or does.

I mean, all right minded people know for an absolute sacred fact that Russia is evil and the West is good. From this central article of faith everything else follows naturally.
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#AvengeMccain
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

If we keep this up, in only a few more decades we will break the U.S.S.R.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
The Swedes did not eventually conclude there never was a mini sub. And Russian fighters jets did violate Swedish air space, more than once.
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Repeating an allegation does not make it true.

Please show me a single verified or even credible example of where Russia violated Swedish airspace.

Provide a link. Google must be full of them ...... right? Show us the evidence.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
Repeating an allegation does not make it true.

Please show me a single verified or even credible example of where Russia violated Swedish airspace.

Provide a link. Google must be full of them ...... right? Show us the evidence.
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https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/fler-ryska-attackplan-flogs-in-over-sverige/
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sa-nara-flog-det-ryska-planet-svenskt-signalspaningsplan
Provokation: Her kommer russisk jagerfly ekstremt tæt på svensk fly - TV 2
https://politiken.dk/udland/art5442740/To-danske-fly-fulgte-fingeret-russisk-angreb-på-Sverige
https://www.bt.dk/udland/drama-ved-bornholm-russisk-kampfly-jagtede-militaerfly
https://politiken.dk/udland/int_eur...ly-blev-sat-ind-mod-nærgående-russisk-maskine
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/regionale...tioner-danske-f16-fly-afviser-i-stigende-grad

And yeah, I know perfectly well, that Cheney fostered the rise of Putin, like Clemenceau fostered Hitler's.

Why can't you see, that Putin will bring about the downfall of the Russian Federation?
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/fler-ryska-attackplan-flogs-in-over-sverige/
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sa-nara-flog-det-ryska-planet-svenskt-signalspaningsplan
Provokation: Her kommer russisk jagerfly ekstremt tæt på svensk fly - TV 2
https://politiken.dk/udland/art5442740/To-danske-fly-fulgte-fingeret-russisk-angreb-på-Sverige
https://www.bt.dk/udland/drama-ved-bornholm-russisk-kampfly-jagtede-militaerfly
https://politiken.dk/udland/int_eur...ly-blev-sat-ind-mod-nærgående-russisk-maskine
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/regionale...tioner-danske-f16-fly-afviser-i-stigende-grad

And yeah, I know perfectly well, that Cheney fostered the rise of Putin, like Clemenceau fostered Hitler's.

Why can't you see, that Putin will bring about the downfall of the Russian Federation?
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I can't read those articles but by the look of them they don't actually say what you claimed. Have you got anything in English or Russian?

Remember we're looking for Russian violation of Swedish airspace.

You do know what a violation is?
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
I can't read those articles but by the look of them they don't actually say what you claimed. Have you got anything in English or Russian?

Remember we're looking for Russian violation of Swedish airspace.

You do know what a violation is?
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Ministry confirms "grave" Russian violation of Swedish airspace | Sveriges Radio
Full list of incidents involving Russian military and Nato since March 2014 | The Independent
 
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Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
~................ only brainwashed Russians, intimidated Russians, or paid trolls could possibly support anything the Putin government says or does.
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once in a while (but far too rarely) even you come up with a relevant assessment.:mrgreen:

To then spoil it again with a gem of dishonesty like
I mean, all right minded people know for an absolute sacred fact that Russia is evil ...............~
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when it's been pointed out a thousand times that holding Putin's Kremlin to be evil does not extend to Russians as a whole.

I, for one, don't even hold YOU to be evil. That this doesn't equate to you being held in high esteem has more to do with your behaviour than with your nationality.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
Repeating an allegation does not make it true..........~
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That doesn't deter you though, does it?
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
They busted their ass, tavarisch.
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So did the Germans, but the Soviets took Berlin anyway. The Finns even sent most of their children out of the country in preparation for the occupation- when they pressed for peace, Finn concessions even exceeded initial Soviet demands. Anyone who thinks the Finns won that war is severely deluded.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
So did the Germans, but the Soviets took Berlin anyway. The Finns even sent most of their children out of the country in preparation for the occupation- when they pressed for peace, Finn concessions even exceeded initial Soviet demands. Anyone who thinks the Finns won that war is severely deluded.
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And that of course rectified all Stalin's own imperialism.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
Ministry confirms "grave" Russian violation of Swedish airspace | Sveriges Radio
Full list of incidents involving Russian military and Nato since March 2014 | The Independent
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The majority of the 'list of incidents' in the Independent do not involve alleged airspace violations at all.

Regarding the September 17 2014 alleged airspace violation, the same website eventually published a Russian denial two months later:

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6013537


Interestingly, there were other admitted violations of Swedish airspace in 2014, one by US and one by Poland, which you don't seem to mention. As a neutral state, Stockholm should be more concerned that NATO aircraft appear unable or unwilling to respect Sweden's airspace.

The Swedish Defence Ministry claimed that Sweden's airspace was violated 42 times between 2011 and 2015, mostly by US aircraft, civilian and military.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
~..............................Interestingly, there were other admitted violations of Swedish airspace in 2014, one by US and one by Poland, which you don't seem to mention. As a neutral state, Stockholm should be more concerned that NATO aircraft appear unable or unwilling to respect Sweden's airspace.

The Swedish Defence Ministry claimed that Sweden's airspace was violated 42 times between 2011 and 2015, mostly by US aircraft, civilian and military.
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What levels of argumentative destitution must one have reached to make such a stupid and dishonest analogy? It's like attempting to say that a Brazilian aircraft over Spain should have me more worried than a Russian one.

Both Sweden and Finland have been in heavy cooperation with NATO for years, to the point of participating in NATO operations, all the way from Bosnia to Afghanistan and, currently, to Trident Juncture.

Ever heard of the "privileged partnership"?:roll:

You can thank your beloved Kremlin's shenanigans in the Black Sea and that of Asov for more and more nations looking at Russian behaviour with a sneer. And if Sweden and Finland are nowadays moving away from their respective non-alignment policies, it took a Putin to achieve that. Something not even the Soviets managed to do.

Because the potential enemy that Trident Juncture directs at is pretty clear.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Westphalian said:
The majority of the 'list of incidents' in the Independent do not involve alleged airspace violations at all.

Regarding the September 17 2014 alleged airspace violation, the same website eventually published a Russian denial two months later:

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6013537


Interestingly, there were other admitted violations of Swedish airspace in 2014, one by US and one by Poland, which you don't seem to mention. As a neutral state, Stockholm should be more concerned that NATO aircraft appear unable or unwilling to respect Sweden's airspace.

The Swedish Defence Ministry claimed that Sweden's airspace was violated 42 times between 2011 and 2015, mostly by US aircraft, civilian and military.
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Yeah, gee. Sweden knows who are their friends and who isn't. Who to trust and who not to.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
Yeah, gee. Sweden knows who are their friends and who isn't. Who to trust and who not to.
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NATO's Trident Juncture, in which both Sweden and Finland are participating in Norway, is clearly directed at the polar bear threat. :lol:
 
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