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Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked, we

Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
where that is totally correct, they both engage in a high level of cooperation with it. In Sweden's case not joining up is of course due to the ages long policy of neutrality, in Finland's case its long standing policy of military non-alignment.
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There was also a certain effort back in the 1950s to be a good neighbour to Russia. Which carries its own punishment.
 
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Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
There was also a certain effort back in the 1950s to be a good neighbour to Russia. Which carries its own punishment.
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In years past I had yet to meet anyone in Finland who didn't hate Russia, nowadays I hear (not having been there for some years) that it's hard to find anyone who trusts it.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
In years past I had yet to meet anyone in Finland who didn't hate Russia, nowadays I hear (not having been there for some years) that it's hard to find anyone who trusts it.
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It's grotesque how many analogies there is between Germany's Nazi past and Putin era Russia. And the Germans should be the first to recognize them.

Germany was not always so eager to put itself forward in military matters. Revulsion at the horrors of Germany's Nazi past fostered a deep mistrust of militarism and the military.
But, to a large extent, attitudes have been changing. The German military was engaged in Nato's Kosovo operation and played a significant role in Afghanistan. But it was Russia's annexation of Crimea and its wider military intervention in eastern Ukraine that really began to shift German opinion.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45863448
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Crimea 2014 ≈ Sudetenland 1938. Plus Pewtin trains his airforce in a proxy war in Syria, exactly like the Luftwaffe trained in the Spanish civil war prior to the main event.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
It's grotesque how many analogies there is between Germany's Nazi past and Putin era Russia. And the Germans should be the first to recognize them.
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You see that, eh?

Well according to the article passage you cite, many Germans by now do as well.

Crimea 2014 ≈ Sudetenland 1938. Plus Pewtin trains his airforce in a proxy war in Syria, exactly like the Luftwaffe trained in the Spanish civil war prior to the main event.
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Putin's air force is probably less in need of hands-on practice than the Condor legion was, but the Sudetentland/Crimea similarity is striking. Both on the premise of "protection" for fellow nationals and in Russia's case today also extending to the Donbass.

With ethnic Russians spread thruout the Baltic republics, it's no wonder they worry. Because they see it as well.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
The legacy of The White Death.

ap231MD_460s.jpg
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Chagos said:
where that is totally correct, they both engage in a high level of cooperation with it. In Sweden's case not joining up is of course due to the ages long policy of neutrality, in Finland's case its long standing policy of military non-alignment. Neither will stand aside should any of the three Baltic Republics be attacked, nor should that occur with Poland.Testing the water.

He does it with NATO too but prefers the open Atlantic. Wisely methinks.
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CEngelbrecht said:
There was also a certain effort back in the 1950s to be a good neighbour to Russia. Which carries its own punishment.
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guys, we just got THE BREAKING NEWS from USA
"President Trump to pull US from "Russia" missile treaty":hm
https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...-us-russia-missile-treaty.html#post1069186991
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Russia pulled out of the INF years ago (breached it) anyway. Not worth the paper.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
Putin's air force is probably less in need of hands-on practice than the Condor legion was, but the Sudetentland/Crimea similarity is striking. Both on the premise of "protection" for fellow nationals and in Russia's case today also extending to the Donbass.

With ethnic Russians spread thruout the Baltic republics, it's no wonder they worry. Because they see it as well.
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And Russia lost the Cold War like Germany lost the First World War, telling themselves, that they did not really lose. In the aftermath, both collapsed into detrimental internal turmoil on the constant brink of civil war, and both invited in a strong, psychopath autocrat to restore past glory, while ignoring nights of long knives. Putin treats the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact like Hitler treated the Versailles Treaty; an evil stab in the back, that only he can rectify for the self evident glory of the Motherland. That is his mission; to get the world back to 1989, as Hitler wanted the world back to 1914.
 
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Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Litwin said:
do you think Viborg was Koba´s ultimate goal? not the entire Finland ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyborg
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Stalin only wanted to give Leningrad (St Petersburg) some breathing room for defensive purposes. If he wanted the whole of Finland he could have taken it, but he didnt.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
Nobody can seriously deny the atrocious state the Bundeswehr, Bundesluftwaffe and the Bundesmarine are in. The few things they do have are largely stricken with malfunction problems and functioning sea vessels are fooling around at the Horn of Africa and the Gibraltar Straits.

One should also note that these out-of-area operations are highly unpopular among the German populace on account of being seen as a waste of money that would be better off going elsewhere (social systems etc.) but that NATO is a completely different picture.

Germany's current strength in soldiers amounts to around 180,000 from what used to be up to 600 thou'. years ago. So yeah, hardly something to make anyone tremble.

Yet the comments of von der Leyen (much ridiculed in Germany as well) don't really imply Wehrmacht status (i.e. taking on Russia all on their own), she was actually speaking for NATO, of which Germany currently commands this particular forward presence.
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I know they are not just referring to germany, but it is pretty bad when the nato nation least capable is the one talking big.

As far of out of area operations that is why their military is undeployable, they met nato obligations in afghanistan as well as isaf, but the germans lacked funds and spare parts to upkeep their equipment after such deployments, some of their equipment spare parts are completely un available and little has been done to modernize or replace that equipment. This led to so much of their equipment coming back in need of repair with the german military unable to return them to working standards due to various obstacles.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
Finland lost that war, fyi.
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Finland indeed did, however the fins showed themselves to be extremely good in their defense, russia taking all of finland would have been too costly for the little benefit they would gain vs the small area they wanted to take.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Chagos said:
In years past I had yet to meet anyone in Finland who didn't hate Russia, nowadays I hear (not having been there for some years) that it's hard to find anyone who trusts it.
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I have met plenty of finnish people who do not hate russia, but on the latter I have never met one who trusts russia, maybe it has to do with the winter wars and further back russian occupation pre bolshevik revolution.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

beerftw said:
Finland indeed did, however the fins showed themselves to be extremely good in their defense, russia taking all of finland would have been too costly for the little benefit they would gain vs the small area they wanted to take.
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Yes, the Finns did very well in that war, but when the Soviets reorganized and renewed their offensive, the Finns begged for peace because their defenses were pretty much smashed after several months of fighting.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
Finland lost that war, fyi.
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Not the Winter War, no. The Continuation War, yes. Simo "The White Death" Häyhä didn't partake in the latter. We'll never know if that made the difference.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
Stalin only wanted to give Leningrad (St Petersburg) some breathing room for defensive purposes. If he wanted the whole of Finland he could have taken it, but he didnt.
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"Only," huh? Do they still pay you guys in vodka?

How to Spot a Russian Troll | Time
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
"Only," huh? Do they still pay you guys in vodka?

How to Spot a Russian Troll | Time
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Everyone is a russian troll, the new way to shut down discussion, anyone not thinking the way I think must be a paid russian troll. This is the new reality, the internet has given people an open voice and many of those on the internet have been against opposing views, either labelling them russian trolls, or soros paid trolls, or shills etc.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
Stalin only wanted to give Leningrad (St Petersburg) some breathing room for defensive purposes. If he wanted the whole of Finland he could have taken it, but he didnt.
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so you believe to what Georgian Thief_in_law Koba said (not him but his propaganda) . and what "Stalin only wanted" to gove UPR, BPR. 3 Baltic States, Poland, 3 south Coucasian independent republics (actually Georgia was under USA protection) , etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

beerftw said:
I know they are not just referring to germany, but it is pretty bad when the nato nation least capable is the one talking big.
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Oh I agree completely. Probably had to do with Germany currently holding command up there but that didn't make it all sound any less daft.
As far of out of area operations that is why their military is undeployable, they met nato obligations in afghanistan as well as isaf, but the germans lacked funds and spare parts to upkeep their equipment after such deployments, some of their equipment spare parts are completely un available and little has been done to modernize or replace that equipment. This led to so much of their equipment coming back in need of repair with the german military unable to return them to working standards due to various obstacles.
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As well as having had to charter Russian Antonovs to get their equipment airlifted to Absurdistan, the H & K G36 assault rifle shooting accurately only in the moderate outside temperature range and tendered replacements currently all falling thru the tests.

As a German neighbour here states it, a Lederhosen group at best fit for the Munich Oktoberfest.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

beerftw said:
I have met plenty of finnish people who do not hate russia, but on the latter I have never met one who trusts russia, maybe it has to do with the winter wars and further back russian occupation pre bolshevik revolution.
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I've found it to be a generation thing, parents and grandparents not completely succeeding in passing on the hate they developed in the Winter War, yet the historical distrust bridging history to even the younger generation of today.

The Kremlin shenanigans not helping much either.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

Litwin said:
guys, we just got THE BREAKING NEWS from USA
"President Trump to pull US from "Russia" missile treaty":hm
https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...-us-russia-missile-treaty.html#post1069186991
Click to expand...

And there we go, the way paved for Putin to go full throttle on the armament buildup for his war against the EU, the EU that stole Stalin's old war loot. The things you can do with a Kompromat video.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

PoS said:
Yes, the Finns did very well in that war, but when the Soviets reorganized and renewed their offensive, the Finns begged for peace because their defenses were pretty much smashed after several months of fighting.
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And attrition had reduced the Finns to virtually zero. Not so much in men but in food and especially ammunition. And an envisaged Franco-British intervention on behalf of the Finns was finally never going to happen.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

beerftw said:
Everyone is a russian troll, the new way to shut down discussion, anyone not thinking the way I think must be a paid russian troll. This is the new reality, the internet has given people an open voice and many of those on the internet have been against opposing views, either labelling them russian trolls, or soros paid trolls, or shills etc.
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I'm not prone to call EVERYone supporting Putin a Russian troll and actually not totally sure that even Westphalian is in Glavset's pay. But the illogical stance and puerile arguments used by some, all the way to outright lying, are strikingly similar to the Olgino MO and exaggerated preference for Russian news sources as providing evidence doesn't help their reputation much either.
 
Re: Germany "Lithuanians should feel absolutely certain, "if 1 sq cm of Nato territory is attacked,

CEngelbrecht said:
And there we go, the way paved for Putin to go full throttle on the armament buildup for his war against the EU, the EU that stole Stalin's old war loot. The things you can do with a Kompromat video.
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Both sides have been accusing each other of breaching the INF for years and both sides were most likely correct. I don't see how the current development changes all that much in anything.
 
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