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Ukraine's Neo-nazi problem - it won't go away

Westphalian

Westphalian

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On Saturday night, up to 20,000 far-right radicals honored the 75th anniversary of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) – a paramilitary group led by Stepan Bandera, which actively collaborated with Hitler’s Germany. They brandished lit torches, smoke pellets, and flares as they chanted fascist slogans. And some participants openly gave Nazi salutes during the rally.

The leaders of the procession included Oleg Tyahnybok, an associate of US Senators John McCain and Chris Murphy, who has called for Ukraine to do more to halt the “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry.” He’s also demanded Ukrainian citizens should have their ethnic origins stamped in their passports. Earlier in the day, Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko said the actions of the UPA fighters would always remain an “inspiration” and an example for future generations. This conduct included the slaughter of tens of thousands of Jews and Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia from 1943 to 1944.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/20000...western-media-somehow-fails-to-notice/5615661
 
1) Global Research is a conspiracy website.

2) Most European nations have right wingnuts including Russia.

3) See that little yellow dot on the left below near the Polish border? That is the sole district in Ukraine that voted for a far right politician in the 2014 election.

Kandydaty-prez-lidery-2014.jpg
 
The Neo-nazi problem intensifies as Putin's murderous troops cross the border.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The Neo-nazi problem intensifies as Putin's murderous troops cross the border.
Click to expand...

12,000+ dead / 22,000+ wounded / 1.5 million displaced in eastern Ukraine since the Russian invasion in 2014.
 
Westphalian said:
On Saturday night, up to 20,000 far-right radicals honored the 75th anniversary of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) – a paramilitary group led by Stepan Bandera, which actively collaborated with Hitler’s Germany. They brandished lit torches, smoke pellets, and flares as they chanted fascist slogans. And some participants openly gave Nazi salutes during the rally.

The leaders of the procession included Oleg Tyahnybok, an associate of US Senators John McCain and Chris Murphy, who has called for Ukraine to do more to halt the “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry.” He’s also demanded Ukrainian citizens should have their ethnic origins stamped in their passports. Earlier in the day, Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko said the actions of the UPA fighters would always remain an “inspiration” and an example for future generations. This conduct included the slaughter of tens of thousands of Jews and Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia from 1943 to 1944.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/20000...western-media-somehow-fails-to-notice/5615661
Click to expand...

Ukraine has plenty of nazi supporters, but they are far from the worst, lithuania latvia and poland have far worse nazi problems than ukraine does.
 
Russia has it fair share as well.

That doesn't merit singling her out, seeing how there's hardly a country in the West that doesn't.
 
A good deal of 'whataboutism' here .......... banned in other threads of course, but clearly perfectly acceptable whenever Ukraine is on the agenda.


You can't have it both ways guys.
 
Westphalian said:
A good deal of 'whataboutism' here .......... banned in other threads of course, but clearly perfectly acceptable whenever Ukraine is on the agenda.


You can't have it both ways guys.
Click to expand...
don't be silly, if whataboutism were banned in threads, you wouldn't have any place to post in.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The Neo-nazi problem intensifies as Putin's murderous troops cross the border.
Click to expand...

they've got a long way before they reach the level of the British and American armies when it comes to being murderous
 
Rogue Valley said:
1) Global Research is a conspiracy website.

2) Most European nations have right wingnuts including Russia.

3) See that little yellow dot on the left below near the Polish border? That is the sole district in Ukraine that voted for a far right politician in the 2014 election.

Kandydaty-prez-lidery-2014.jpg
Click to expand...

funny the two most popular parties in South Eastern Ukraine/South Western Russia were banned from partaking in that election the party of the regions and the Communist party ... so the result is immaterial
 
Godric1970 said:
funny the two most popular parties in South Eastern Ukraine/South Western Russia were banned from partaking in that election the party of the regions and the Communist party ... so the result is immaterial
Click to expand...

The Party of Regions disbanded itself after it voted to impeach Viktor Yanukovych. No Communist Party candidate collected enough nominating signatures to appear on the 2014 ballot.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Party of Regions disbanded itself after it voted to impeach Viktor Yanukovych. No Communist Party candidate collected enough nominating signatures to appear on the 2014 ballot.
Click to expand...


An interesting take on the facts. In fact, in 'democratic' Ukraine, the Communist Party was accused of financing rebels in Donetsk just before the 2014 elections. In 2015 it was then banned.


Here's Amnesty International's take on it - this great new Ukrainian 'democracy' :roll:


https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...ve-blow-for-freedom-of-speech-in-the-country/


Banning the Communist Party in Ukraine is a flagrant violation of freedom of expression and association and should be immediately overturned, said Amnesty International.

The District Administrative Court of Kyiv upheld the request of the Ukrainian Minister of Justice to ban the Communist Party. It will no longer be able to officially operate or participate in local elections.

“The banning of the Communist Party in Ukraine sets a very dangerous precedent. This move is propelling Ukraine backwards not forwards on its path to reform and greater respect for human rights,” said John Dalhuisen, Amnesty International’s Director of Europe and Central Asia.
 
Westphalian said:
An interesting take on the facts. In fact, in 'democratic' Ukraine, the Communist Party was accused of financing rebels in Donetsk just before the 2014 elections. In 2015 it was then banned.
Click to expand...
Yet another of your obfuscations and as pitiful an entry as practically all your others by now.

Reference was clearly made to the fact that no Communist Party candidate collected enough nominating signatures to appear on the 2014 ballot and you have to go on your usual distortion rampage by coming up with a ban that didn't arise until a year after the elections.

Against parties that openly continued to support the Russian annexation of Crimea and openly continued voicing their support for further destruction of the sovereignty of the Ukrainian state.

You might want to quit your hypocritical crocodile's tears over supposed destruction of democracy, but it doesn't get you around the fact that NO democratic state will tolerate a political party that actively engages in its destruction.

Of course, if you don't run from facts like these as you so often do, your habitual response will most likely be that none of the accusations (against commies and others) are proven.

Well that is totally irrelevant here, the point is that the commies (in whatever rejuvenation they chose) COULD run in the 2014 elections.
 
Godric1970 said:
funny the two most popular parties in South Eastern Ukraine/South Western Russia were banned from partaking in that election the party of the regions and the Communist party ... so the result is immaterial
Click to expand...
Fake!!
 
Westphalian said:
Here's Amnesty International's take on it - this great new Ukrainian 'democracy' :roll:
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly (and I do), the most popular Russian opposition candidate, Alexei Navalny, was banned from participating in the recent Russian presidential election.

That oh so wonderful "Russian style democracy" in action.
 
The Ukrainian people lived under Communist governments for 70 years.

Millions were purposefully starved to death (Holodomor) and hundreds of thousands were shot/sent to the Siberian gulags.

Who would want to reprise that horrible nightmare?
 
Rogue Valley said:
If I recall correctly (and I do), the most popular Russian opposition candidate, Alexei Navalny, was banned from participating in the recent Russian presidential election.

That oh so wonderful "Russian style democracy" in action.
Click to expand...


This sounds a lot like 'whataboutism'. Who'd have thought :roll:


Do you have any comments on Amnesty's report?


I also note that, pertinent to the thread, the Communist Party is banned but not neo nazi parties.
 
Chagos said:
Yet another of your obfuscations and as pitiful an entry as practically all your others by now.

Reference was clearly made to the fact that no Communist Party candidate collected enough nominating signatures to appear on the 2014 ballot and you have to go on your usual distortion rampage by coming up with a ban that didn't arise until a year after the elections.

Against parties that openly continued to support the Russian annexation of Crimea and openly continued voicing their support for further destruction of the sovereignty of the Ukrainian state.

You might want to quit your hypocritical crocodile's tears over supposed destruction of democracy, but it doesn't get you around the fact that NO democratic state will tolerate a political party that actively engages in its destruction.

Of course, if you don't run from facts like these as you so often do, your habitual response will most likely be that none of the accusations (against commies and others) are proven.

Well that is totally irrelevant here, the point is that the commies (in whatever rejuvenation they chose) COULD run in the 2014 elections.
Click to expand...

What a weak and incoherent response.

Are the Scottish National Party and Sinn Fein banned in the UK?

Are Catalan and Basque parties banned in Spain?

There are many parties which openly campaign for the 'destruction of the sovereignty' of their host. If you engaged your brain for a second before launching into your hysterical rant then you wouldn't look quite so absurd.
 
Westphalian said:
What a weak and incoherent response.

Are the Scottish National Party and Sinn Fein banned in the UK?

Are Catalan and Basque parties banned in Spain?

There are many parties which openly campaign for the 'destruction of the sovereignty' of their host. If you engaged your brain for a second before launching into your hysterical rant then you wouldn't look quite so absurd.
Click to expand...
You might want to take your own advice re: the bolded.

SNP, Sinn Fein, independentistas and Basques are of late not engaged in armed uprising against the legal government and your attempt at creating equivalences here are just another demonstration of your dishonesty as well as of your impotence of argument. It need not be further described how absurd that makes YOU look, let alone your posts.

And as predicted you now run from your original and totally dishonest implication of the commies in Ukraine having been barred from running in the 2014 elections.

You lied there and your only recourse to deflect from your lies appears to consist of following up with more lies.

Truly pitiful behaviour which affords you the contempt so richly deserved.
 
Westphalian said:
What a weak and incoherent response.

Are the Scottish National Party and Sinn Fein banned in the UK?

Are Catalan and Basque parties banned in Spain?
Click to expand...

Did those movements murder millions of people like the German Nazis and the Soviet Communists? And yes, everything relating to the Nazi party is banned in Germany.

Post WWII Germany operates under a concept called “defensive democracy”. Examples of defensive democracy today include Germany Spain, Turkey, Israel, and many recently independent states that were formerly Soviet Republics (SSRs) and Warsaw Pact nations. The idea is that vulnerable democracies might need an assist from some illiberal policies such as limits on free speech and the display of offensive imagery in order to keep everyone free. In 2009 the German law was strengthened again when the Constitutional Court officially ruled that a rally to celebrate the deceased Nazi official Rudolf Hess was illegal under Article 130 of the Penal Code which bans anything that “approves of, glorifies or justifies the violent and despotic rule of the National Socialists.” In Ukraine and Poland as other examples of defensive democracy, Constitutional amendments stipulate “decomunization” ... the removal of Communist names, symbols, and monuments in the public/government sphere. Historical mass murderers and their political apparatus' (Nazi/Communist) should be neither celebrated nor glorified. The General Prosecutor of Ukraine and the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) have filed charges against the Ukraine Communist Party. The charges include supporting the annexation of Crimea by Russia and “financing terrorism” (i.e. providing support to pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine), both considered acts of treason against the Ukrainian state. Much like the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine, the Communist Party is also considered a component of a fifth column under Kremlin control. The Communist Party took part in the October 2015 Ukraine local elections as part of the political party “Left Opposition” and the political party “Nova Derzhava” (New State). Last week, Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople granted the Ukraine Orthodox Church independence (autocephaly) from the Russian Orthodox Church it has been bound to since 1686.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Ukrainian people lived under Communist governments for 70 years.

Millions were purposefully starved to death (Holodomor) and hundreds of thousands were shot/sent to the Siberian gulags.

Who would want to reprise that horrible nightmare?
Click to expand...
.....and what' more, even if Ukraine had never known communists before its latest independence in the early 90s, those commies that afterwards arose openly agitated as the Kremlin's 5th column.

Supporting the Crimea annexation as well as supporting the separatists in Eastern Ukraine.

IOW Treason.

But you make a valid point in invoking the history of suffering of the Ukrainian people under Soviet rule, especially in view of how the commies (for instance) erected a monument of Stalin in Zaporizhia as late as 2010.
 
Chagos said:
But you make a valid point in invoking the history of suffering of the Ukrainian people under Soviet rule, especially in view of how the commies (for instance) erected a monument of Stalin in Zaporizhia as late as 2010.
Click to expand...

The Communist Party in Zaporizhia erected that statue on their own private property. At any rate, Comrade Stalin in Zaporizhia was decapitated 6 months after the unveiling and was removed. I do not believe it has been replaced. Of all the places in Ukraine that I have visited, Zaporizhia was in my mind the most Communist-sympathetic and the most Communist looking. I don't think a new building has been built there since the 1950's. Everything looks so .... you know, that cheesy-grandiose Soviet architecture that dominated in Moscow and most capitals behind the Iron Curtain. One would probably have to raze Zaporizhia to the ground to fully and faithfully decommunize it.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Did those movements murder millions of people like the German Nazis and the Soviet Communists? And yes, everything relating to the Nazi party is banned in Germany.

Post WWII Germany operates under a concept called “defensive democracy”. Examples of defensive democracy today include Germany Spain, Turkey, Israel, and many recently independent states that were formerly Soviet Republics (SSRs) and Warsaw Pact nations. The idea is that vulnerable democracies might need an assist from some illiberal policies such as limits on free speech and the display of offensive imagery in order to keep everyone free. In 2009 the German law was strengthened again when the Constitutional Court officially ruled that a rally to celebrate the deceased Nazi official Rudolf Hess was illegal under Article 130 of the Penal Code which bans anything that “approves of, glorifies or justifies the violent and despotic rule of the National Socialists.” In Ukraine and Poland as other examples of defensive democracy, Constitutional amendments stipulate “decomunization” ... the removal of Communist names, symbols, and monuments in the public/government sphere. Historical mass murderers and their political apparatus' (Nazi/Communist) should be neither celebrated nor glorified. The General Prosecutor of Ukraine and the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) have filed charges against the Ukraine Communist Party. The charges include supporting the annexation of Crimea by Russia and “financing terrorism” (i.e. providing support to pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine), both considered acts of treason against the Ukrainian state. Much like the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine, the Communist Party is also considered a component of a fifth column under Kremlin control. The Communist Party took part in the October 2015 Ukraine local elections as part of the political party “Left Opposition” and the political party “Nova Derzhava” (New State). Last week, Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople granted the Ukraine Orthodox Church independence (autocephaly) from the Russian Orthodox Church it has been bound to since 1686.
Click to expand...


Oh yes - 'defensive democracy' where banning political parties is a really good and democratic idea.

It's even more instructive that you mention Turkey in your list.

Can you tell us all whether Turkey is, in your opinion, a functioning democracy?


Now back to the question you refuse to answer.

Do you agree with Amnesty's report? For reference:

“The banning of the Communist Party in Ukraine sets a very dangerous precedent. This move is propelling Ukraine backwards not forwards on its path to reform and greater respect for human rights,” said John Dalhuisen, Amnesty International’s Director of Europe and Central Asia.
 
Chagos said:
You might want to take your own advice re: the bolded.

SNP, Sinn Fein, independentistas and Basques are of late not engaged in armed uprising against the legal government and your attempt at creating equivalences here are just another demonstration of your dishonesty as well as of your impotence of argument. It need not be further described how absurd that makes YOU look, let alone your posts.

And as predicted you now run from your original and totally dishonest implication of the commies in Ukraine having been barred from running in the 2014 elections.

You lied there and your only recourse to deflect from your lies appears to consist of following up with more lies.

Truly pitiful behaviour which affords you the contempt so richly deserved.
Click to expand...


On the contrary, there was no lie in my post. I stated the facts in relation to 2014. Do you contest the facts? I stated very clearly that the Communist Party was banned in 2015. That seems ot be a fact you don't want to know about, and strangely, RV omitted it from his own analysis.


Back to Ukraine and the assault on democracy. The Communist Party were not engaged in any armed uprising, which is why my comparison to the SNP and those other movements was so pertinent. Indeed, Sinn Fein were for many years and quite openly the political wing of the IRA. It seems that the UK was once a lot more tolerant and liberal than Ukraine.

When it comes to being specious, and maliciously mis-representing me (your very real version of peddling lies) you are top of the class Chagos.
 
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