Ukraine's slow dis-memberment and de-population

No country in the world is declining in population so fast as Ukraine. We all know they've lost about 3-4 million to Russia through Crimea's liberation, and refugees into Russia from Donbas.

But what is not so well known is that in Ukraine's west they are losing citizens to Hungary, Romania and Poland. Kiev's severe language laws, designed to be aimed at Russian, have had a very negative impact on the over 100,000 ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungarian-ukrainian-relations-how-much-worse-can-it-get/


The relationship worsened dramatically with the introduction of the new Ukrainian education law in 2017. The law aims to “modernize education” through reforms to be introduced from September 2018. The 7th paragraph of the law states that Ukraine’s official language of education is Ukrainian, and the use of minority languages is allowed only in the first four grades of primary education.

Ukrainian news agency UNIAN reported on Saturday that a Ukrainian nationalist website has started publishing the names and addresses of Transcarpathian Hungarians with dual citizenship. Szijjártó said that this past week Ukraine “went farther than ever before when it violated every existing written and unwritten rule of international law and diplomacy” by conducting an intelligence operation at a Hungarian consulate in Ukraine, the minister said, referring to the recording of the oath-taking ceremony.

Interesting where Porosenko will flee after loosing of power?
The witness protection program in the US like for Jazenjuk?
Putin shall arrest Porosenko and sue him for genocide on Russians in Donbass

Westphalian said:

No country in the world is declining in population so fast as Ukraine. We all know they've lost about 3-4 million to Russia through Crimea's liberation, and refugees into Russia from Donbas.

But what is not so well known is that in Ukraine's west they are losing citizens to Hungary, Romania and Poland. Kiev's severe language laws, designed to be aimed at Russian, have had a very negative impact on the over 100,000 ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungarian-ukrainian-relations-how-much-worse-can-it-get/


The relationship worsened dramatically with the introduction of the new Ukrainian education law in 2017. The law aims to “modernize education” through reforms to be introduced from September 2018. The 7th paragraph of the law states that Ukraine’s official language of education is Ukrainian, and the use of minority languages is allowed only in the first four grades of primary education.

Ukrainian news agency UNIAN reported on Saturday that a Ukrainian nationalist website has started publishing the names and addresses of Transcarpathian Hungarians with dual citizenship. Szijjártó said that this past week Ukraine “went farther than ever before when it violated every existing written and unwritten rule of international law and diplomacy” by conducting an intelligence operation at a Hungarian consulate in Ukraine, the minister said, referring to the recording of the oath-taking ceremony.

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People vote with their feet these days. Ukraine is such a mess, their best bet is to fall on their knees and beg team China/Russia/Iran to help them make something of themselves.

This constant whining that they do is not ever going to get them very far.

While I don't doubt that Hungarians and others are being discriminated by the Ukrainian government, it is kinda ironic since people are also fleeing from Hungary due that governments similar discrimination against non Hungarians.. oh and the article forgets to mention that Hungarians coming from other countries have to prove their Hungarianism....

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PeteEU said:

While I don't doubt that Hungarians and others are being discriminated by the Ukrainian government, it is kinda ironic since people are also fleeing from Hungary due that governments similar discrimination against non Hungarians.. oh and the article forgets to mention that Hungarians coming from other countries have to prove their Hungarianism....

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The problems of ethno nationalism

Westphalian said:

No country in the world is declining in population so fast as Ukraine. We all know they've lost about 3-4 million to Russia through Crimea's liberation, and refugees into Russia from Donbas.

But what is not so well known is that in Ukraine's west they are losing citizens to Hungary, Romania and Poland. Kiev's severe language laws, designed to be aimed at Russian, have had a very negative impact on the over 100,000 ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungarian-ukrainian-relations-how-much-worse-can-it-get/


The relationship worsened dramatically with the introduction of the new Ukrainian education law in 2017. The law aims to “modernize education” through reforms to be introduced from September 2018. The 7th paragraph of the law states that Ukraine’s official language of education is Ukrainian, and the use of minority languages is allowed only in the first four grades of primary education.

Ukrainian news agency UNIAN reported on Saturday that a Ukrainian nationalist website has started publishing the names and addresses of Transcarpathian Hungarians with dual citizenship. Szijjártó said that this past week Ukraine “went farther than ever before when it violated every existing written and unwritten rule of international law and diplomacy” by conducting an intelligence operation at a Hungarian consulate in Ukraine, the minister said, referring to the recording of the oath-taking ceremony.

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Countries With The Most Emigrants Living Abroad

India, Russia, and Mexico are close contenders for having the most former residents dwelling in foreign lands today.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-most-emigrants-living-abroad.html

And many Mexicans are leaving Mexico and going to Ukraine.

During the past 2 months, Ukraine has recaptured 8 square kilometers from Russian forces in the Donbas.

Just a note to all .... Don't believe anything the Russian trolls say at face value.

99.9% is disinformation and propaganda.

Rogue Valley said:

Just a note to all .... Don't believe anything the Russian trolls say at face value.

99.9% is disinformation and propaganda.

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Yep.....same with pro-Ukrainian trolls. Know any?

Westphalian:

The basic premise of your OP is false as rapid depopulation is occurring all over Eastern Europe from the Baltic to the Balkans. Ukraine is actually the fourth most rapidly depopulating country in Eastern Europe, not the first, and it has the additional burden of civil war and foreign occupation to deal with. Bulgaria is worse in terms of the % decrease of population and Russia is ahead of Ukraine in total numbers of emigration (albeit with a population 3.5 times that of Ukraine.

https://qz.com/1187819/country-ranking-worlds-fastest-shrinking-countries-are-in-eastern-europe/

The use of the word "liberation" with regards to Crimea is interesting, shall we say, and I'll leave it at that.

With respect to Ukraine's language laws they are the result of a reaction to the dismemberment and the limited civil war which Russia has either done or directly supported in Ukraine, so look to the Kremlin as the co-causal force behind Ukrainian linguistic intolerance. Countries like Iceland and political jurisdictions like the Province of Quebec have even more severe linguistic restriction laws without having the societal co-catalysts of foreign invasion and outside-sponsored civil war to lower societal barriers to prejudice, discrimination and institutional bigotry.

Do you have a link for the Ukrainian website which has been doxing Hungarians living in Ukraine? It sounds like this is not a Ukrainian Government policy but rather the actions of xenophopic ultra-nationalists.

Ukraine is under great stress since 2013-14 and much of that stress leads straight back to Moscow and Russian foreign policy and militarism in its near-abroad. So when criticising Ukraine for acts of official and unofficial prejudice and discrimination, Russians have to accept part of the responsibility for harshly rubbing the lamp of Ukraine and releasing the vicious djinn of poisoned ethnic tensions and the resultant discrimination which comes with that tension. Ukraine is not innocent in these matters but nor is Russia. Human nature under societal stress and war-time conditions brings the worst out in people, be they residents of Western Ukraine or Kiev/Kyiv or be they residents of the Donbas or invading Russians.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

PeteEU said:

Yep.....same with pro-Ukrainian trolls. Know any?

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I do know a pro-Putin EU troll. Know any?

Rogue Valley said:

During the past 2 months, Ukraine has recaptured 8 square kilometers from Russian forces in the Donbas.

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Which is your virtual admission, although in a curious thread, that Kiev is not fulfilling its obligations under Minsk which mandated a full ceasefire.

Westphalian said:

Which is your virtual admission, although in a curious thread, that Kiev is not fulfilling its obligations under Minsk which mandated a full ceasefire.

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Have the Russians left?

Westphalian said:

Which is your virtual admission, although in a curious thread, that Kiev is not fulfilling its obligations under Minsk which mandated a full ceasefire.

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Minsk? Let us all know when Moscow has fulfilled Point 10 of the Minsk Accord it signed on 11 February 2015.....

10. Pullout of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, and also mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under OSCE supervision. Disarmament of all illegal groups.

In lieu of Moscow fulfilling its Minsk obligations, Ukraine has every right to reclaim its occupied territory.

Westphalian said:

No country in the world is declining in population so fast as Ukraine. We all know they've lost about 3-4 million to Russia through Crimea's liberation, and refugees into Russia from Donbas.

But what is not so well known is that in Ukraine's west they are losing citizens to Hungary, Romania and Poland. Kiev's severe language laws, designed to be aimed at Russian, have had a very negative impact on the over 100,000 ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine.

https://hungarytoday.hu/hungarian-ukrainian-relations-how-much-worse-can-it-get/


The relationship worsened dramatically with the introduction of the new Ukrainian education law in 2017. The law aims to “modernize education” through reforms to be introduced from September 2018. The 7th paragraph of the law states that Ukraine’s official language of education is Ukrainian, and the use of minority languages is allowed only in the first four grades of primary education.

Ukrainian news agency UNIAN reported on Saturday that a Ukrainian nationalist website has started publishing the names and addresses of Transcarpathian Hungarians with dual citizenship. Szijjártó said that this past week Ukraine “went farther than ever before when it violated every existing written and unwritten rule of international law and diplomacy” by conducting an intelligence operation at a Hungarian consulate in Ukraine, the minister said, referring to the recording of the oath-taking ceremony.

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Ukraine has had mass depopulation not just from war, but also an extremely low birthrate even compared to the us combined with flight of skilled workers, ukraine has a crappy economy but has some of the most highly skilled workers in the world, they have been moving to eu countries, or russia and belarus. Many eu countries especially former eastern bloc countries see them as compatible with slavic culture, while russia and belarus see them as fully compatible, and western eu nations do not care much for compatibility, places like germany are in such a shortage of skilled workers they will take any ukrainian they can.


The ukrainians have the skill, other nations have the market, it only makes sense they are moving to markets that need their skills.