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Russia Stole U.S. Presidency, Pro-Kremlin Politician Claims on Live TV

WCH said:
If I hadn't heard similar allusions to war, making war, starting a war from your fellow kindred, I might accept that as an "opinion". However it's sounds more like parroting the weekly rhetoric.
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Look; you expressed an 'opinion' ................ isn't that something .................... but there is NO expression of 'desire' in there ...................

know the the difference now?

Class dismissed ............
 
WCH said:
You want to make light of it while I don't find it humorous.
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I'm not making light of it, W... And you shouldn't find it humorous, it's a bloody mess. And blaming "the Left", whoever they are at any given time, won't make your president act like a president.
 
Xelor said:
Absolutely. And, here's the thing: That is so true that if Trump were to admit that it's true, he could in turn legitimately utter all the recriminations he wanted to against Obama, Obama's Administration and the 114th Congress for having missed it. But Trump won't simply acknowledge that the election was handed to him by the Russians, in spite of the fact that the Russians know it was and "everyone" else in the government knows it was.

Quite simply, the Russians didn't try to make Trump POTUS, they tried to do so and succeeded. That they did is precisely what Putin has to hold over Trump's head. Why? Because the reality is that just as they "made" Trump, they can "unmake" Trump. They know it and, I think, Trump knows it too. (If there was any measure of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, all Putin needs to do is release that information and Trump's tenure will be over. And you know damn well that if Russia collaborated with the Trump campaign, they have the documentary evidence showing that to be the case.)
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Far as I'm concerned, it was Hillary Clinton's laziness that lost the election for her. Everything else may have played into it, her inept campaign strategy, her ho hum, almost sleep walking campaign. Jury rigging of the Democratic Primaries in Hillary's favor peeving off Sanders supporters, a bunch more to include possible Russia propaganda input.

The bottom line is if Hillary Clinton hadn't allowed Trump to both out work and out campaign her by a very huge margin, all those other things wouldn't have made one iota of a difference. Her laziness, that she perhaps took the election for granted is what lost it for her. When a presidential candidate lets her opponent both out work and out campaign her by a 116 campaign visits/stops to 71 for Hillary, she had no business running for the presidency.

She wasn't willing to work to get elected. It seems she wanted the presidency handed to her on a silver platter. She lost Wisconsin by 22,000, Wisconsin wasn't even worth a single campaign visit or stop to Hillary, Trump made five. Michigan, Hillary lost by 10,000 votes. Trump made six trips to Michigan to Hillary's one. A couple of more trips, visits, stops probably would have put those states in her column. Apparently she didn't think they were worth it or that she had both Wisconsin and Michigan in the bag.

She lost Pennsylvania by 44,000 votes. She also let Trump out work and out campaign her there also. Eight trips/stops/visits for Trump, five for Hillary. Even in electoral rich Florida, 29 electoral votes, Hillary conceded Florida to Trump by letting him out campaign and out work her there 13-8.

Do or did we really want someone in the presidency that thought the presidency wasn't worth working or breaking a sweat for?
 
VanceMack said:
Dont you think its important that the US makes Russia strong?
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I suppose you don't. But feel the need to criticize the OP anyway out of partisanship.
 
WCH said:
well, get your **** together folks; we will be going to war over this .............. just a matter of time ..........
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a 12 year old's hyperbole. Grow up.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I suppose you don't. But feel the need to criticize the OP anyway out of partisanship.
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:lamo

You swallow everything the leftists feed you about Russia, and now you swallow something a Russian politician claims?

The leftists have ****ed you people over for years over Russia. First in 2012...now in 2015/16 to hide from the content of the democrat emails. And they KNOW you will just sit there...swallow it...and regurgitate the same **** FOR them.

Pathetic.

Dont you think its important that the US makes Russia strong?
 
cuban smokes said:
Look; you expressed an 'opinion' ................ isn't that something .................... but there is NO expression of 'desire' in there ...................

know the the difference now?

Class dismissed ............
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That in no way let you off the hook. Choose your words carefully.
 
OlNate said:
I'm not making light of it, W... And you shouldn't find it humorous, it's a bloody mess. And blaming "the Left", whoever they are at any given time, won't make your president act like a president.
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What you don't understand is I like the way Trump acts. It's refreshing and more importantly, getting the desire results. You guys may never figure it out.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Russia Stole U.S. Presidency, Pro-Kremlin Politician Claims on Live TV



In Russia itself however, the presentation is much different and messages about America are not at all 'massaged'. Instead, they are vulgar and crass. If Americans could understand Russian, they would not believe what is being presented about America, and about Trump. After Helsinki, the message conveyed by every Kremlin pundit on Russian state television channels is that Trump is Putin's poodle. Kremlin TV hosts are simply flabbergasted at what Trump did in Helsinki. So, to any of you reading this that belong to Trump's base and support his Russia love ... if you only knew what is really going down on Russian television 24/7. You might just rethink things.
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This is complete nonsense Rogue .... even by your standards.


The reality is that state TV is surprised by what Trump said in Helsinki, and even more concerned about his poodle like retraction when the crazy warmongers in Washington got hold of him.
 
Perotista said:
Far as I'm concerned, it was Hillary Clinton's laziness that lost the election for her. Everything else may have played into it, her inept campaign strategy, her ho hum, almost sleep walking campaign. Jury rigging of the Democratic Primaries in Hillary's favor peeving off Sanders supporters, a bunch more to include possible Russia propaganda input.

The bottom line is if Hillary Clinton hadn't allowed Trump to both out work and out campaign her by a very huge margin, all those other things wouldn't have made one iota of a difference. Her laziness, that she perhaps took the election for granted is what lost it for her. When a presidential candidate lets her opponent both out work and out campaign her by a 116 campaign visits/stops to 71 for Hillary, she had no business running for the presidency.

She wasn't willing to work to get elected. It seems she wanted the presidency handed to her on a silver platter. She lost Wisconsin by 22,000, Wisconsin wasn't even worth a single campaign visit or stop to Hillary, Trump made five. Michigan, Hillary lost by 10,000 votes. Trump made six trips to Michigan to Hillary's one. A couple of more trips, visits, stops probably would have put those states in her column. Apparently she didn't think they were worth it or that she had both Wisconsin and Michigan in the bag.

She lost Pennsylvania by 44,000 votes. She also let Trump out work and out campaign her there also. Eight trips/stops/visits for Trump, five for Hillary. Even in electoral rich Florida, 29 electoral votes, Hillary conceded Florida to Trump by letting him out campaign and out work her there 13-8.

Do or did we really want someone in the presidency that thought the presidency wasn't worth working or breaking a sweat for?
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In the manner of a Super Delegate, your 'Super-Like Worthy' post spells out the reason in excellent detail. Thank you!
 
Rogue Valley said:
Russia Stole U.S. Presidency, Pro-Kremlin Politician Claims on Live TV

nikonov.jpg

Pro-Kremlin lawmaker Vyacheslav Nikonov



Quite frankly, the disinformation Americans receive from Russian state agencies such as RT and Sputnik are 'massaged'. What I mean by that is the tenor is softened to their disinformation points more palatable. If they didn't 'massage' their disinformation, most Americans would recoil in shock and stop reading their propaganda. Such a result would defeat the overarching purpose of RT and Sputnik. So ... they 'massage' the disinformation directly targeted at Americans in their native English language. This Russian 'massage formula' is true in every Western nation that permits RT/Sputnik broadcasts, internet articles, etc. This 'massaging' is all directed/managed by the RT/Sputnik manager Margarita Simonyan, who sits on the Board of Putin's Re-election Committee.

In Russia itself however, the presentation is much different and messages about America are not at all 'massaged'. Instead, they are vulgar and crass. If Americans could understand Russian, they would not believe what is being presented about America, and about Trump. After Helsinki, the message conveyed by every Kremlin pundit on Russian state television channels is that Trump is Putin's poodle. Kremlin TV hosts are simply flabbergasted at what Trump did in Helsinki. So, to any of you reading this that belong to Trump's base and support his Russia love ... if you only knew what is really going down on Russian television 24/7. You might just rethink things.
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Master PO said:
Rosenstein: "No Allegation in This Indictment That Any American Had Any Knowledge" Of Russian Election Influence Operation

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...ve_deputy_ag_rod_rosenstein_announcement.html

"Russians Did Not Alter The Outcome Of The Elections": Highlights From Rosenstein's Press Conference

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...tions-highlights-rosensteins-press-conference
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Rosenstein or Russian official?
 
WCH said:
What you don't understand is I like the way Trump acts. It's refreshing and more importantly, getting the desire results. You guys may never figure it out.
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You want your country to go into the toilet? Because those are the results you're heading for... I mean, your president is already internationally scoffed at...is that #MAGA in action?

I guess you're right, I will never figure out how you have come to believe that your best interests are being seen to. I will never understand how you are not mortified.

And I know you probably think I delight in this gap, because I like to be spicy on debate forums, but the truth is the opposite. I get the same feeling I get when watching those old "Starving kids in Africa" fundraising commercials. Except in this case, you're doing it to yourself.

So, I will break tradition and agree with you completely on this one, W... I don't understand. :shrug:
 
Trippy Trekker said:
In the manner of a Super Delegate, your 'Super-Like Worthy' post spells out the reason in excellent detail. Thank you!
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Perhaps that was Hillary's problem. she was relying on super electors like she did on the super delegates. Her problem, there were no super electors.
 
Rogue Valley said:
In OP is spot on. Do you speak Russian VanceMack?
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I was wondering if anyone on the web monitors and translates Russian internal propaganda, ummm, media? That would be interesting to look at.

I have to laugh at the "it's Obama's fault Putin got Trump elected" spin. Obama could have told everyone what he knew, but he would have been derided by those same posters for being a partisan hack nakedly trying to "fix" the election for Clinton. He tried to get a bipartisan group with him, Ryan and McConnell to issue a joint statement, but they refused.

If that’s true, why didn’t the Obama administration push to release it earlier?

For one, the White House was probably afraid of looking like it was tipping the scale in Hillary Clinton’s favor, especially in an election that her opponent repeatedly described as rigged. Though Obama stumped for Clinton around the country, the administration didn’t want to open him up to attacks that he unfairly used intelligence to undermine Trump’s campaign, the Post reported.

Instead, top White House officials gathered key lawmakers—leadership from the House and Senate, plus the top Democrats and Republicans from both houses’ intelligence and homeland security committees—to ask for a bipartisan condemnation of Russia’s meddling. The effort was stymied by several Republicans who weren’t willing to cooperate, including, reportedly, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. (On Sunday morning, a bipartisan statement condemning the hacks came from incoming Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Jack Reed, a Democrat, and Republicans John McCain and Lindsey Graham.)

It’s also possible that the administration, like most pollsters and pundits, was overconfident in its assessment that Clinton would win the election. Officials may have been more willing to lob incendiary accusations—and risk setting off a serious political or cyber conflict with Russia—if they had thought Trump had a good chance to win.

The silence from the White House and the CIA was a stark contrast to the Comey’s announcement just weeks before the election that it was examining new documents related to its investigation into Clinton’s emails.

The closest the administration came to accusing Russia of trying to get Trump elected came in October, just over a month before Election Day. In a statement, all 17 U.S. intelligence agencies announced that they were “confident” that the Kremlin directed intrusions into “U.S. political organizations,” and that the leaked materials that were popping up on Wikileaks, DCLeaks.com, and on the website claimed by a hacker called “Guccifer 2.0” were likely connected to Russia. The statement said the thefts and disclosures were “intended to interfere with the U.S. election process,” but it didn’t say whether they were meant to help one candidate more than another.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...out-russias-influence-on-the-election/510242/
 
Perotista said:
Far as I'm concerned, it was Hillary Clinton's laziness that lost the election for her. Everything else may have played into it, her inept campaign strategy, her ho hum, almost sleep walking campaign. Jury rigging of the Democratic Primaries in Hillary's favor peeving off Sanders supporters, a bunch more to include possible Russia propaganda input.

The bottom line is if Hillary Clinton hadn't allowed Trump to both out work and out campaign her by a very huge margin, all those other things wouldn't have made one iota of a difference. Her laziness, that she perhaps took the election for granted is what lost it for her. When a presidential candidate lets her opponent both out work and out campaign her by a 116 campaign visits/stops to 71 for Hillary, she had no business running for the presidency.

She wasn't willing to work to get elected. It seems she wanted the presidency handed to her on a silver platter. She lost Wisconsin by 22,000, Wisconsin wasn't even worth a single campaign visit or stop to Hillary, Trump made five. Michigan, Hillary lost by 10,000 votes. Trump made six trips to Michigan to Hillary's one. A couple of more trips, visits, stops probably would have put those states in her column. Apparently she didn't think they were worth it or that she had both Wisconsin and Michigan in the bag.

She lost Pennsylvania by 44,000 votes. She also let Trump out work and out campaign her there also. Eight trips/stops/visits for Trump, five for Hillary. Even in electoral rich Florida, 29 electoral votes, Hillary conceded Florida to Trump by letting him out campaign and out work her there 13-8.

Do or did we really want someone in the presidency that thought the presidency wasn't worth working or breaking a sweat for?
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Some of that I agree with and some I don't. Some of it strikes me as material and some of it strikes me as ancillary. From where I sit, a multiplicity of factors contributed to the 2016 POTUS election's outcome. You've identified one -- campaign appearances by the candidate -- and that factor is, as a whole, relevant, but not singularly so.
 
VanceMack said:
Russia, and now you swallow something a Russian politician claims?
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I didn't swallow any such thing. The story is accurate though.

I merely told you what the Russian-state media in Russia is saying about Donald Johnovich Trumpov since Helsinki.

"Putin's poodle". Whether you believe it or not, I don't really care. You'll find out the hard way one of these days.

A cartoon from Russia.....

DiWKyscVQAEd6dc.jpg
 
Rogue Valley said:
I didn't swallow any such thing. The story is accurate though.

I merely told you what the Russian-state media in Russia is saying about Donald Johnovich Trumpov since Helsinki.

"Putin's poodle". Whether you believe it or not, I don't really care. You'll find out the hard way one of these days.

A cartoon from Russia.....

DiWKyscVQAEd6dc.jpg
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:lamo

Of COURSE you did. You **** yourself rushing in here to start a propaganda piece that is SPOON FED to you by the Russians...and yet you **** yourself over....the Russians and Trump.

The have you mentally ****ed coming and going. And they are laughing at you.
 
Xelor said:
Some of that I agree with and some I don't. Some of it strikes me as material and some of it strikes me as ancillary. From where I sit, a multiplicity of factors contributed to the 2016 POTUS election's outcome. You've identified one -- campaign appearances by the candidate -- and that factor is, as a whole, relevant, but not singularly so.
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It all plays into the outcome. No doubt, as I stated. The thing is Hillary had full control of her campaign, she could have worked and campaigned a bit harder. That she could control herself. Her campaign strategy of basically trying to receive more electoral votes than Obama did, is something else she had control of herself. She spent quite a lot of time, energy and money in trying to win Georgia, Arizona and Utah at the expense of paying attention to her own backyard. States like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

I have always said, Trump didn't win the election, Hillary lost it. The election was hers, hers to lose. You can bet the ranch that a Biden, Sanders, O'Malley or whomever as a presidential candidate wouldn't have allowed their opponent to both outwork and out campaign them like Hillary did. All Hillary needed was to get the same voters as Obama did and she was home or in the White House free.

I think it is better to look at the things Hillary could control than the one's she couldn't.
 
Perotista said:
It all plays into the outcome. No doubt, as I stated. The thing is Hillary had full control of her campaign, she could have worked and campaigned a bit harder. That she could control herself. Her campaign strategy of basically trying to receive more electoral votes than Obama did, is something else she had control of herself. She spent quite a lot of time, energy and money in trying to win Georgia, Arizona and Utah at the expense of paying attention to her own backyard. States like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

I have always said, Trump didn't win the election, Hillary lost it. The election was hers, hers to lose. You can bet the ranch that a Biden, Sanders, O'Malley or whomever as a presidential candidate wouldn't have allowed their opponent to both outwork and out campaign them like Hillary did. All Hillary needed was to get the same voters as Obama did and she was home or in the White House free.

I think it is better to look at the things Hillary could control than the one's she couldn't.
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Okay, now you've had and I've indulged your digression pertaining to what Hillary did, but what has anything she did or didn't do to do with the actual thread topic which is the existential nature and extent of activities the Russians effected to aid and abet Trump's campaigning efforts as part of an overall strategy to hasten the U.S.' decline in global leadership stature?

If you want to relitigate and diagnose the beneficial and detrimental strategies and tactics of both candidates, there's surely a thread for that, but this isn't it. What's at issue here is the role the Russians played in the election process, and we both know their activities focused on helping Trump's ends.
 
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Xelor said:
Okay, now you've had and I've indulged your digression pertaining to what Hillary did, but what has anything she did or didn't do to do with the actual thread topic which is the existential nature and extent of activities the Russians effected to aid and abet Trump's campaigning efforts as part of an overall strategy to hasten the U.S.' decline in global leadership stature?

If you want to relitigate and diagnose the beneficial and detrimental strategies and tactics of both candidates, there's surely a thread for that, but this isn't it. What's at issue here is the role the Russians played in the election process, and we both know their activities focused on helping Trump's ends.
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Okay, I'll move on, not a problem. But the fact remains, Hillary's caused her own loss over things she could control. Have a nice day.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Russia Stole U.S. Presidency, Pro-Kremlin Politician Claims on Live TV

nikonov.jpg

Pro-Kremlin lawmaker Vyacheslav Nikonov



Quite frankly, the disinformation Americans receive from Russian state agencies such as RT and Sputnik are 'massaged'. What I mean by that is the tenor is softened to their disinformation points more palatable. If they didn't 'massage' their disinformation, most Americans would recoil in shock and stop reading their propaganda. Such a result would defeat the overarching purpose of RT and Sputnik. So ... they 'massage' the disinformation directly targeted at Americans in their native English language. This Russian 'massage formula' is true in every Western nation that permits RT/Sputnik broadcasts, internet articles, etc. This 'massaging' is all directed/managed by the RT/Sputnik manager Margarita Simonyan, who sits on the Board of Putin's Re-election Committee.

In Russia itself however, the presentation is much different and messages about America are not at all 'massaged'. Instead, they are vulgar and crass. If Americans could understand Russian, they would not believe what is being presented about America, and about Trump. After Helsinki, the message conveyed by every Kremlin pundit on Russian state television channels is that Trump is Putin's poodle. Kremlin TV hosts are simply flabbergasted at what Trump did in Helsinki. So, to any of you reading this that belong to Trump's base and support his Russia love ... if you only knew what is really going down on Russian television 24/7. You might just rethink things.
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I doubt it. First, one has to think something through before one can "re-think" it.

Thinking is not their forte. So, that makes "re-thinking" out of the question.

I think you expect too much from them.
 
Look if we are completely honest with ourselves, if Hillary didn't steal the nomination from Bernie Sanders.... there is a very good chance he would have beaten Trump because many people voted for Trump simply because they hated Hillary. Would Russian meddling have mattered if Sanders won instead? In a way, she brought this on herself, the rest of America and the world (trade war)...start paying out your debts and saving money, next year this time it's going to get real.
 
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