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Germany and Russia gas links: Trump is not only one to ask questions

Rogue Valley said:
Germany and Russia gas links: Trump is not only one to ask questions

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On this issue, I agree with Donald Trump (a first I believe). Nord (North) Stream II is not necessary for supply purposes. NS-II can only deliver Russian over-supply and European over-dependence. When you get right down to it, the overarching purpose of NS-II is geopolitical in essence ... to cut Ukraine and Poland out of the gas transmission schematic. This accomplishes two things for Moscow; (1) NS-II allows the Kremlin to get around paying gas transmission fees that Ukraine and Poland collect to transport Russian gas across their territory and (2) NS-II allows the Kremlin to completely turn off the gas to Ukraine without also affecting the rest of Europe. Germany, the preeminent economic power on the European continent, has been pushing for NS-II using all of its considerable influence. Indeed, former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is now a Vice-President and NS-II lobbyist for the Russia state-owned Gazprom energy giant.

There are also very real military consequences involved. Nord Stream I allowed the Kremlin to modernize its military forces and invade Georgia, Crimea, and eastern Ukraine. Nord Stream II will permit Moscow to continue modernizing its already formidable military, and finance additional Kremlin invasions of ... ??
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It's a legitimate concern, but that is not the issue. Trump lied. That is the issue. He overstated Germany's dependence on this resource.

What else is new?
 
Westphalian said:
US opposition to NS is partly designed to avoid money flowing into Russia - in this Rogue is correct.

But let's get real here - the other reason is that if Europe can't buy gas from Russia, it will most likely have to buy much more expensive US shale gas.

Lining the pockets of US corporates is always an objective of US foreign policy. But, from a European perspective, buying more expensive US gas is not such an attractive option because European energy prices (ironically particularly in the Baltics) are already inflated by an obsession with expensive renewables. Consumers have votes, and European elites are already not exactly the height of popularity.
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So much wrong in this post...

Where to start?

Gazprom is a monopoly based in Russia. A monopoly more than happy to play politics.

When Russia once again stops the gas going to Europe (as they have done in the past) the US will only be a small part of keeping the energy needs met.



Norway, Algeria, Qatar, Nigeria, etc. will try to take up the slack.

And the reason why Russian gas prices are relatively low in to combat the incursion of other nations LNG.
 
Fledermaus said:
Gazprom is a monopoly based in Russia. A monopoly more than happy to play politics.

When Russia once again stops the gas going to Europe (as they have done in the past) the US will only be a small part of keeping the energy needs met.
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Russia, and the Soviets before them, have never cut off the supply of gas to Europe.


The issues have arisen by Ukraine siphoning off supplies meant for Europe. That's exactly why NS2 is important - it bypasses Ukraine - and the Germans know that.

Yes, Gazprom is prepared to cut supplies to states which don't pay their bills. That's life.

And finally, if you think the US doesn't see $$$s for itself in all this, then I think you don't understand reality.
 
Westphalian said:
Russia, and the Soviets before them, have never cut off the supply of gas to Europe.


The issues have arisen by Ukraine siphoning off supplies meant for Europe. That's exactly why NS2 is important - it bypasses Ukraine - and the Germans know that.

Yes, Gazprom is prepared to cut supplies to states which don't pay their bills. That's life.

And finally, if you think the US doesn't see $$$s for itself in all this, then I think you don't understand reality.
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Yes, they have. Why lie?

Or didn't Sputnik/RT tell you the truth?

Gazprom is just another political hammer at Putin's disposal.
 
Fledermaus said:
Yes, they have. Why lie?

Or didn't Sputnik/RT tell you the truth?

Gazprom is just another political hammer at Putin's disposal.
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The only time I can recall Russia cutting off gas supplies to Europe were during contract disputes with the Ukraine. Heck Russia did not even blow up the BTC pipeline in Georgia during the Russian Georgian war/conflict, which is what I expected Russia would have done
 
Fledermaus said:
So much wrong in this post...

Where to start?

Gazprom is a monopoly based in Russia. A monopoly more than happy to play politics.

When Russia once again stops the gas going to Europe (as they have done in the past) the US will only be a small part of keeping the energy needs met.
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I have to agree here with post #104 in that a cut-off from Russia to (Western) Europe for political reasons has never happened. Simply because the money kept flowing and Russia, in such an event, would have burned its own purse.

Whether the US would play a small or large role in replacement (should Russian cut-off ever happen) would depend entirely on price. In other words everything would be possible from large to not at all.
Norway, Algeria, Qatar, Nigeria, etc. will try to take up the slack.
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I agree with the assessment that other nations are waiting, with Norway and Netherlands already supplying the lion's share of imports at least where Germany (biggest gas importer overall) is concerned.

And the reason why Russian gas prices are relatively low in to combat the incursion of other nations LNG.
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none of us are obviously privy to Russia's calculation, i.e. whether its lower gas prices are economically justified. Nevertheless being in control of domestic transport and then able to pump it all thru a pipe is probably less cost-intensive than shipping it in tankers over the oceans.
 
Fledermaus said:
Yes, they have. Why lie?

Or didn't Sputnik/RT tell you the truth?

Gazprom is just another political hammer at Putin's disposal.
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Well go on then ........ tell us.


Or just sit back and shout LIES LIES LIES - hoping the Russia hating has done its job and everyone just believes you without a shred of evidence and contrary to factual reality.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The only time I can recall Russia cutting off gas supplies to Europe were during contract disputes with the Ukraine. Heck Russia did not even blow up the BTC pipeline in Georgia during the Russian Georgian war/conflict, which is what I expected Russia would have done
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Ukraine defaulted on its Russian gas bill because the price was altered and price discounts (for allowing Russia to lease the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea) terminated. It was cheaper for Ukraine to purchase Russian gas from Europe (reverse flow) than to purchase it directly from Russia. Ukraine took Russia to court over this and an international arbitration court has awarded Ukraine $4.63 billion ($2.56 billion after adjustments) in damages. This is a major reason why Moscow wants the Nordstream pipelines, so it can cut off the flow of gas to Ukraine (which Russia has invaded) without this act affecting gas supplies to the rest of Europe. An "end-around" to punish Ukraine for its intention to join the EU and not capitulating to Moscow's demands.

Russian Gas Giant Ordered to Pay Ukraine $2.56 Bln Over Price Hikes

In Shocking Turn Of Events, Russia Now Owes Ukraine Billions
 
Rogue Valley said:
Ukraine defaulted on its Russian gas bill because the price was altered and price discounts (for allowing Russia to lease the Black Sea Fleet base in Crimea) terminated. It was cheaper for Ukraine to purchase Russian gas from Europe (reverse flow) than to purchase it directly from Russia. Ukraine took Russia to court over this and an international arbitration court has awarded Ukraine $4.63 billion ($2.56 billion after adjustments) in damages. This is a major reason why Moscow wants the Nordstream pipelines, so it can cut off the flow of gas to Ukraine (which Russia has invaded) without this act affecting gas supplies to the rest of Europe. An "end-around" to punish Ukraine for its intention to join the EU and not capitulating to Moscow's demands.

Russian Gas Giant Ordered to Pay Ukraine $2.56 Bln Over Price Hikes

In Shocking Turn Of Events, Russia Now Owes Ukraine Billions
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So contract disputes with Ukraine, which was what I said
 
To clear up obvious confusion that someone here clearly suffers (or perhaps just pretends at).

Being critical of the KGB thug and his henchmen has nothing to do with hating Russia (as dishonestly claimed).

Same goes for the previous claim made elsewhere that these forums are swamped with Russophobes.

Of such trash are Olgino-esque allegations made.
 
Fledermaus said:
Gazprom is a monopoly based in Russia. A monopoly more than happy to play politics.
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Both Alexey Miller, CEO of Russia's state-owned energy giant Gazprom and Igor Sechin, CEO of Russian state-owned energy giant Rosneft, served as deputies to Vladimir Putin in Leningrad/St. Petersburg (1990-1996) where Putin served as Chief Deputy to the Mayor of the city Anatoly Sobchak (d. 2000). Current PM of Russia Dmitry Medvedev was also a part of the Sobchak administration. They are all tied together. Sechin was also a KGB officer, and served in this capacity in South Africa. Putin is reputed to be the Godfather of Ksenia Sobchak, daughter of Anatoly Sobchak. Ksenia was also a candidate (window dressing) in the 2018 Russia presidential election. Donald Trump visited Lenigrad/St. Petersburg many times. It is the birth city of Putin.
 
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