Greece To Expel, Ban Russian Diplomats

Greece To Expel, Ban Russian Diplomats


Foreign Office of Greece

7/1/18
Greece will expel two Russian diplomats and ban entry to another two over suspicions they attempted to undermine a deal between Athens and Macedonia last month, Greek newspaper Kathimerini reports. Greek government spokesman Dimitris Tzanakopoulos said on July 11 that Athens would not tolerate any behavior that violates international law. His remarks were in response to Kathimerini's report that Greece would expel Russian diplomats for activities inconsistent with their status. Russia's Foreign Ministry said it would respond in kind to the expulsions, Interfax news agency reported. Kathimerini reported that Athens ordered the expulsions and bans after perceived attempts by the Russian diplomats to undermine a deal Greece brokered with Macedonia last month that ended a decades-old standoff over its name. The two countries agreed to the renaming of the former Yugoslav republic's name to North Macedonia. The deal is expected to pave the way for Macedonia to join NATO in a region where Russia and the West are jostling for influence.

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Besides interfering in the affairs of Greece and Macedonia, Moscow also attempted a coup in Montenegro using Serbia as a friendly base.

Also: Russian Military Spies Backed Attempt to Assassinate Leader of Montenegro

The awakened Cold War (this will cost a fortune to fight... again.)

OrphanSlug said:

The awakened Cold War (this will cost a fortune to fight... again.)

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Russia seems to be doing it rather cheaply and efficiently on the Internet.

Diplomatic expulsions are unhelpful.

OrphanSlug said:

The awakened Cold War (this will cost a fortune to fight... again.)

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Russia's perspective is that NATO is designed to invade them, and by constantly enlarging the organization with new members that are right on it's doorstep is surely making the Russians nervous. I can see why Russia was trying to sabotage the deal between Greece and Macedonia.

Westphalian said:

Diplomatic expulsions are unhelpful.

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It is rarely a positive thing but if there is reason to believe certain diplomats are breaking the law or undermining the host country government then PNGing them is the only legal recourse available to the host country.

PoS said:

Russia's perspective is that NATO is designed to invade them, and by constantly enlarging the organization with new members that are right on it's doorstep is surely making the Russians nervous. I can see why Russia was trying to sabotage the deal between Greece and Macedonia.

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I think we all can, but my point is we have been here before. The first time around, arguably, it contributed to USSR imploding trying to spend their way through a Cold War with the west and a war in Afghanistan (and a few issues at home.) This time around Russia might still be on the defense, but who is doing the spending this time?

I would also agree there is no real diplomatic solution, and all of these nations are fairly intertwined by economics.

PoS said:

Russia's perspective is that NATO is designed to invade them, and by constantly enlarging the organization with new members that are right on it's doorstep is surely making the Russians nervous. I can see why Russia was trying to sabotage the deal between Greece and Macedonia.

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Greetings, PoS. :2wave:

My mother's family were known as Yugoslav natives for many hundreds of years according to genealogical records kept by the Mormon Church Library. Now that Greece and Macedonia have finally agreed that the former Yugoslav Republic will now be called North Macedonia, this has just created more work for me on the history of my family! :thumbdown: I didn't need more bookwork to tackle, but it's important to me that my descendants know the reason the history of the Yugoslav Republic no longer exists under that name. D***! It was interesting to read that with the new name, they will be able to join NATO now if they choose, so I guess that's a plus. The world is changing! Whatever.....

PoS said:

Russia's perspective is that NATO is designed to invade them, and by constantly enlarging the organization with new members that are right on it's doorstep is surely making the Russians nervous. I can see why Russia was trying to sabotage the deal between Greece and Macedonia.

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Explain to us why the former Soviet Republics (SSRs) in the Baltics and the majority of Warsaw Pact nations joined NATO as fast as possible.

Georgia and Ukraine would love to join NATO also. No need to even wonder why.

For the life of me, I can't discern exactly where Russia is threatened by NATO. Perhaps you can show us PoS...

Without NATO Putin can play pretend peacekeeper, stir civil unrest then invade pretty much whoever he wants to in Eastern Europe, in view of Ukraine, Crimea, South Ossetia and Transdnistria I would argue NATO is vital.

EnigmaO01 said:

Russia seems to be doing it rather cheaply and efficiently on the Internet.

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That is exactly what they're doing and if the Western leaders ever finally grow some balls and some brains, they'll simply cut Russia's connection to the outside world. Call it an act of self-preservation.

Rogue Valley said:

Explain to us why the former Soviet Republics (SSRs) in the Baltics and the majority of Warsaw Pact nations joined NATO as fast as possible.

Georgia and Ukraine would love to join NATO also. No need to even wonder why.

For the life of me, I can't discern exactly where Russia is threatened by NATO. Perhaps you can show us PoS...

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You dont seem to know Russian history, especially the part where they were invaded twice by the West, from Napoleon to Hitler. They dont ever want that to happen again, no matter what the cost. All the recent belligerence by Russia is partly the West's fault, they ignored Russian interests during the Ukraine coup and the Georgian attack on one of their breakaway provinces. So naturally the Russians reacted.

If the Russians started placing air bases in places like in Cuba or Panama, I'm sure the US will react the same way too. It's their back yard.

And what is NATO's purpose now except to act as a military intervention tool by the West? If they want long lasting peace with Russia, then either disband NATO or make Russia a part of it.

polgara said:

Greetings, PoS. :2wave:

My mother's family were known as Yugoslav natives for many hundreds of years according to genealogical records kept by the Mormon Church Library. Now that Greece and Macedonia have finally agreed that the former Yugoslav Republic will now be called North Macedonia, this has just created more work for me on the history of my family! :thumbdown: I didn't need more bookwork to tackle, but it's important to me that my descendants know the reason the history of the Yugoslav Republic no longer exists under that name. D***! It was interesting to read that with the new name, they will be able to join NATO now if they choose, so I guess that's a plus. The world is changing! Whatever.....

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Hey polgara, I wouldnt worry too much. Macedonia isnt really Greek even, they're sort of just a made up country after the Yugoslavia collapse.

polgara said:

Greetings, PoS. :2wave:

My mother's family were known as Yugoslav natives for many hundreds of years according to genealogical records kept by the Mormon Church Library.

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sorry, that can´t be. Yugoslavia did not exist one hundred years. It was created in 1918 and discontinued 2006
(Macedonia stayed in till 1991) ;o)

german hick said:

sorry, that can´t be. Yugoslavia did not exist one hundred years. It was created in 1918 and discontinued 2006
(Macedonia stayed in till 1991) ;o)

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Greetings, german hick. :2wave:

According to the information I received, the Slavs moved into the region sometime during the Seventh Century. I will follow up on this to see what the reason for the discrepancy might be, since that part of my family called themselves Yugoslavs in the late 19th Century.

polgara said:

Greetings, german hick. :2wave:

According to the information I received, the Slavs moved into the region sometime during the Seventh Century. I will follow up on this to see what the reason for the discrepancy might be, since that part of my family called themselves Yugoslavs in the late 19th Century.

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Yugoslav actually means nothing other that Southern Slav.

Of course that is more of a generalization than an actual definition (name) of a people, same way that a Southern Italian doesn't actually constitute an ethnicity.

I suggest that in your particular case the Mormon Church Library was not being all that particular on historical detail, possibly because whoever supplied them from your family wasn't so much either.

OTH Serbs, Croats and Slovenians go back centuries and where their respective languages are not the same, they share the common denominator of all belonging to the same Southern Slav language family. To wit, Serbian and Croat share sufficient similarity to have been amalgamated into Serbo-Croat, the official state language spoken in Yugoslavia, but the common divider of Serbs writing with the Cyrillic alphabet while Croats used the Latin one prevailed.

Meanwhile the various dialects are moving apart again with the dissolution of the Yugoslav construct as a state.

Where Southern Slav would be a valid geographical self description, further research might actually reveal which (Southern) Slavic tribe your family belongs(-ed) to.

Incidentally, the three main ethnicities of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians are indeed reported in the area as early as the 7th century and have a history of being at each others' throats over who was there first.:lol:

Slav is of course a Roman term and means simply "slave". That shows what the Romans considered them all to be good for.

PoS said:

You dont seem to know Russian history

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On the contrary dobryy ser, I've been to Russia numerous times and have studied Russian history.

Seems that it's your learning curve that is faulty.

Rogue Valley said:

~............................For the life of me, I can't discern exactly where Russia is threatened by NATO. Perhaps you can show us PoS...

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To expand upon an explanation already offered, it's the old wisdom of "just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're all not out to get me."

Of course one can reason over how any such fears are unfounded but the way people feel often enough has little to do with reason.

As another example (and what we don't get to hear much in the West) this fear extends Eastwards as well in that the Mongols are not forgotten either. Silly really, considering that Mongolia is hardly able to pose a threat even if it wanted, yet the general Russian distrust extends even to their (the Mongols') Tatar vassals that actually constituted the lion's share of the Golden Horde in their time.

Of course all of it - and especially that directed at the West - is perfect fodder for the propaganda machine to exploit by raising the spectres of everyone from the Teutonic Knights via Napoleon to Hitler and with a bit of effort one can throw Polish imperialism in as well.

But it's like debating whether the hen or the egg came first, the KGB wouldn't have successfully run a whole Directorate of Disinformation if history hadn't provided some base to work from.

And, as we all know, Vladimir is KGB.

Georgia, incidentally, is seen as much as representing Eastern barbarians as Crimean Tatars are, even where both are technically Southern.


P.S. I've often been to Russia as well and it took quite some time for (some) Russians that I met to feel sufficiently confident in me to let old prejudices surface.

Rogue Valley said:

On the contrary dobryy ser, I've been to Russia numerous times and have studied Russian history.

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And yet you admit you have no idea why the Russians get antagonized every time NATO expands eastward... Oh well, thats you.

PoS said:

You dont seem to know Russian history, especially the part where they were invaded twice by the West, from Napoleon to Hitler.

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You studiously avoided post WWII history which is what your bitch here is about ... NATO encroachment on Russia.

You still haven't showed us exactly where/how NATO is encroaching. Do so now.



Map: NATO "surrounding" Russia