• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.K. woman dies

Westphalian said:
Do you operate on the basis that Russia must be guilty unless it can prove its innocence?

Fishking has pointed out facts which might suggest other parties are responsible - but unlike the Russia haters in London, he has not specifically attributed blame.
Click to expand...

Have I stated Russia MUST be guilty?

Which post?

Do I believe Russia is guilty?

Yes.
 
DaveFagan said:
Au contraire! Gov'ts have condemned Russia with accusations with no more relevance than my accusations against Porton Down.
Click to expand...
No more and no less so as I said, you’re no better than the government and media.

DaveFagan said:
I haven't pronounced anyone at Porton Down guilty nor sanctioned anyone.
Click to expand...
You explicitly declared “Porton Down” is the primary suspect and seem unwilling to consider any alternative. You’ve also repeatedly failed to explain exactly what you mean when you declare a large area of land a suspect.

DaveFagan said:
I have made obvious the folly of the UK MEDIA and politicians and that is the point. I am in the moral position to condemn them. An objective viewpoint.
Click to expand...
That’d be entirely separate to your accusations against Porton Down though. I’m still agreeing with you on the government and media. You’re acting as if I’m not to evade my challenges you your other statements.
 
Westphalian said:
Two Russians left on a plane - I know it must be hard to separate fact from fiction in your world.
Click to expand...

Well, I readily realize that Sheremetyevo, Domodedovo, and Khrabrovo Airports don't receive all that much international traffic.

But Heathrow International Airport accommodates countless thousands of passengers daily from all over the world.

So yes, two Russians boarding an outbound plane at Heathrow would hardly be considered fiction at all.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Well, I readily realize that Sheremetyevo, Domodedovo, and Khrabrovo Airports don't receive all that much international traffic.

But Heathrow International Airport accommodates countless thousands of passengers daily from all over the world.

So yes, two Russians boarding an outbound plane at Heathrow would hardly be considered fiction at all.
Click to expand...


Two Americans left on a plane that same day.

What's your point Rogue - evidentially speaking?
 
Westphalian said:
Two Americans left on a plane that same day.

What's your point Rogue - evidentially speaking?
Click to expand...

As I pointed out in an earlier post (please keep up so recapping isn't necessary), Russia had the motive, the opportunity, a history of poisoning Russian expats in the UK, and a unique history with the exotic and rare Russian poisoning agent (Novichok).
 
7/11/18
Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, who is the national lead for counterterrorism policing, confirmed that Novichok, the nerve agent used to poison Rowley and Sturgess in Amesbury, is the same type of lethal toxin that was used just a few miles away in Salisbury, in a March attack on former Russian spy and British double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia Skripal.

At this stage, Basu said, more forensic evidence is necessary to link the two incidents, but he added, "This is a very rare substance banned by the international community and for there to be two separate, distinct incidents in one small English county is implausible to say the least."

Police suspect that Rowley and Sturgess were poisoned after handling a container with Novichok. About a 100 counterterrorism detectives are working around the clock to locate it, according to Basu. He said scientists "will work hard to establish if the nerve agents from the two incidents are from the same batch." So far, police said there is no evidence that Rowley or Sturgess visited any of the sites that underwent decontamination following the attack on the Skripals in March.
Click to expand...

As I surmised in an earlier post, Charles Rowley and Dawn Sturgess accidentally stumbled upon a container that was utilized in the Kremlin assassination attempt on Sergei and Yulia Skripal. After smuggling the container into the UK, the assassins ditched it (less than a mile from Salisbury) to avoid having to smuggle it back out of the UK. This is pretty careless of the Russians and not well thought out. Either they supplied the assassins (probably SVR agents) with more Novichok than was actually necessary, or they underestimated its persistence index. Charles Rowley will hopefully provide investigators with a specific location where the deadly container is located.
 
Although people can make up and repeat as nauseam a narrative about 'the Russians did it' - the fake news fails under challenge.

Where is the evidence? How can the UK claim to be a rules based society when it pronounces a verdict before even finding any evidence?

By what bizarre contortions of logic has the UK adopted a policy of 'guilty until proven innocent' with regard to Russia.

The police have no suspects and no leads. This is most likely because the action was carried out by US or UK agents and the police will of course find nothing.
 
All Russian crimes are "fake news" to a Russian troll.
 
Rogue Valley said:
As I pointed out in an earlier post (please keep up so recapping isn't necessary), Russia had the motive, the opportunity, a history of poisoning Russian expats in the UK, and a unique history with the exotic and rare Russian poisoning agent (Novichok).
Click to expand...


The motive - poisoning just before a World Cup in Russia?

Opportunity? - the US or US had much better opportunity.

History of poisoning expats? - Litvinenko, like Skripal, worked for UK intelligence

Unique history? - Italy invented wine but there are a lot of places which can produce it
 
Westphalian said:
Deflection does not make the questions go away.
Click to expand...

You answer my questions about Russian war crimes in Syria. (carpet/cluster bombings of populated cities)

I'll put more videos up if need be. My queries will not go away either.
 
"A small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley's house in Amesbury," counter-terrorism police said in a statement.
Click to expand...

Novichok poisoning: UK police find source of nerve agent inside victim's house - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

How did it get there, if Rowley knew it was Novichok I doubt very much he would have opened it to poison himself.

They are still testing to see if it's the same batch as the Skripals, I think it very likely is the same and that Rowley either found it or it was left in or near his home/perhaps planted in his pocket and found later...??? Wonder if they would be able to go back on CCTV footage if Rowley can tell them where he was round the same time the Skripals were poisoned... so many questions...
 
HERA the Stars said:
Novichok poisoning: UK police find source of nerve agent inside victim's house - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

How did it get there, if Rowley knew it was Novichok I doubt very much he would have opened it to poison himself.

They are still testing to see if it's the same batch as the Skripals, I think it very likely is the same and that Rowley either found it or it was left in or near his home/perhaps planted in his pocket and found later...??? Wonder if they would be able to go back on CCTV footage if Rowley can tell them where he was round the same time the Skripals were poisoned... so many questions...
Click to expand...

Thankfully, Rowley is still alive to answer many of those questions. It is almost certainly the Novichok container used to poison the Skripal couple.

It might be helpful (doubtful) if they can pull prints off of it. The Brits have invited the OPCW to also perform analysis tests.
 
Westphalian said:
Deflection does not make the questions go away.


I didn't suppose you'd try answering :roll:
Click to expand...

Dont waste your time. There's a number of Russian haters here, and even the lack of any facts wont dissuade them.
 
PoS said:
Dont waste your time. There's a number of Russian haters here, and even the lack of any facts wont dissuade them.
Click to expand...

No, realists ... that have to correct Western Putinista's such as yourself.
 
HERA the Stars said:
Novichok poisoning: UK police find source of nerve agent inside victim's house - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

"A small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley's house in Amesbury," counter-terrorism police said in a statement.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I would estimate the bottle very likely being somewhat smaller than the bottle shown below. One doesn't need much Novichok to kill, and the bottle had to be small/innocuous enough to conceal through Customs. I'm guessing that the designated assassins (probably SVR agents) were supplied with counterfeit documents that made it appear as though they were citizens of a neighboring EU country (Shengen Area travelers). They discarded the bottle in-situ rather than chance a problem at Customs upon exfiltration (and also because the exterior of the bottle was by now also contaminated). I would imagine they had to wear special gloves at a minimum as a personal safety precaution. Where are the gloves?

iStock-954314576.jpg.hashed.3cbc3934.desktop.story.inline.jpg
 
Rogue Valley said:
No, realists ... that have to correct Western Putinista's such as yourself.
Click to expand...

I will condemn Russia if there is evidence- so that makes me the realist, not you.

You may now continue your 2 minutes of hate.
 
PoS said:
I will condemn Russia if there is evidence- so that makes me the realist, not you. You may now continue your 2 minutes of hate.
Click to expand...

You don't even consider the possibility ... nay, the extreme likelihood, of Russian involvement.

Moscow has the motive, the opportunity, the experience with exotic poisons, and a history of assassinations on UK soil.

You may now continue with your next 2 minutes of apologia.
 
HERA the Stars said:
Novichok poisoning: UK police find source of nerve agent inside victim's house - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

How did it get there, if Rowley knew it was Novichok I doubt very much he would have opened it to poison himself.

They are still testing to see if it's the same batch as the Skripals, I think it very likely is the same and that Rowley either found it or it was left in or near his home/perhaps planted in his pocket and found later...??? Wonder if they would be able to go back on CCTV footage if Rowley can tell them where he was round the same time the Skripals were poisoned... so many questions...
Click to expand...

British authorities say they have collected over 400 pieces of evidence in the Salisbury/Amesbury investigations. The bottle found at the Rowley house did indeed contain Novichok which has been revealed to be a perfume bottle. I'll wager it is a small perfume bottle for travel and sized to be carried in a woman's purse. Airport security has explosives/explosives-precursor "sniffing" dogs and technology in place, but nothing to detect an exotic poison such as Novichok. The British authorities have also revealed that the evidence collected thus far leads them to believe the assassination agency involved was the GRU (Russian military intelligence) rather than the FSB (Russian domestic intelligence agency) or the SVR (Russian foreign intelligence agency). Coincidentally (or not), the 12 Russians indicted for hacking into the DNC server were also all Russian GRU agents as are the "Guccifer 2.0" and "DCLeaks" Twitter/Facebook accounts.
 
Rogue Valley said:
You don't even consider the possibility ... nay, the extreme likelihood, of Russian involvement.

Moscow has the motive, the opportunity, the experience with exotic poisons, and a history of assassinations on UK soil.

You may now continue with your next 2 minutes of apologia.
Click to expand...

Still no evidence. Just name calling the people who disagree with you. Noted.
 
PoS said:
Still no evidence. Just name calling the people who disagree with you. Noted.
Click to expand...

I'm not privvy to Scotland Yard evidence. Are you? If so please share with us.

I hate to burst your superiority bubble, but DP is not a courtroom. It is a debate/exchange site where opinions are not only welcome, but necessary for survival.

If you want Novichok evidence, you won't find it here anywhere, by anyone. So take your silly evidence demands elsewhere.
 
Novichok victim Charlie Rowley is fighting for his life AGAIN weeks after surviving nerve agent poisoning

0_Charlie-Rowley.jpg

Charlie Rowley

8/26/18
Novichok victim Charlie Rowley was tonight feared to be fighting deadly meningitis. Charlie, 45, is back in the same *hospital where he and girlfriend Dawn Sturgess were treated after being *poisoned by the Russian nerve agent. Dawn, 44, died from the same poison used in the attempted killing of Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury, Wilts. There are now fears that Charlie could face life-changing injuries from the *illness, which it is feared came as a result of his body being run down by the *Novichok attack. Charlie is being monitored round the clock by a dedicated team of medics – eight days after being readmitted to the intensive care unit at Salisbury District Hospital where he and Dawn were first treated for Novichok poisoning. Paramedics rushed to Charlie’s new home in Amesbury, Wilts, last Friday after he managed to dial 999 when he was going temporarily blind. Meningitis is life-threatening and is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths every year worldwide. It is caused by an infection with micro-organisms and can lead to serious long-term consequences including brain damage, deafness and epilepsy.
Click to expand...

Update. Not good news it seems. Not really sure how accurate this article is.
 
Damn those Russians, deliberately targeting the UK's drug addicts and alcoholics. :roll:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom