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Industry sectors face Brexit extinction

Infinite Chaos

Infinite Chaos

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Mr Drechsler, who is due to step down from his role next week, said car industry bosses were concerned that greater costs caused by the imposition of trade tariffs and delays at the border would affect not only individual companies, but also the entire supply chain.~
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth," he said. Link
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Airbus has warned it could leave the UK if the country exits the European Union single market and customs union without a transition deal.
The European planemaker said the warning was not part of "project fear, but its "dawning reality".
Airbus employs about 14,000 people at 25 different sites in the UK. Link
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The UK is Siemens' fourth-biggest market after the US, Germany and China. It employs 15,000 people in the UK.
"If the Brexit we end up having provides significant friction, provides significant cost, then of course that will be an argument against making investments here in the UK," Mr Maier said. Link.
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My bet is still that the majority of British staff employed at these plants voted for Brexit, full well knowing that they were voting for their jobs to end. Other manufacturers have invested in the UK since the vote pr announced plans to invest so we are going to see a huge sea-change in industry here.

What we have done to ourselves.....
 
Infinite Chaos said:
My bet is still that the majority of British staff employed at these plants voted for Brexit, full well knowing that they were voting for their jobs to end. Other manufacturers have invested in the UK since the vote pr announced plans to invest so we are going to see a huge sea-change in industry here.

What we have done to ourselves.....
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You all have been in decline for a couple of hundred years, one would think that you'd be used to it by now.

Dont fret too much, the entire globe will be in depression soon enough.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
You all have been in decline for a couple of hundred years
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Since WW1 and that decline was from an Empire and supposed superpower.

Hawkeye10 said:
~ Dont fret too much, the entire globe will be in depression soon enough.
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I think the BRICS, China and EU can pull together but yeah at the moment things don't look good globally.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Since WW1 and that decline was from an Empire and supposed superpower.



I think the BRICS, China and EU can pull together but yeah at the moment things don't look good globally.
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Since you lost America silly....The trend line has been all downhill from there.

China will lead what comes next, but as this global world order falls they well be in the soup with the rest of us. If the New Silk Road gets done in time they will be relatively OK....that plus that great military they are building as fast as they can.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
My bet is still that the majority of British staff employed at these plants voted for Brexit, full well knowing that they were voting for their jobs to end. Other manufacturers have invested in the UK since the vote pr announced plans to invest so we are going to see a huge sea-change in industry here.

What we have done to ourselves.....
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If the aircraft industry of the EU thinks it can find 14,000 very highly skilled people easily they are going to have a big problem.

The world outside the EU however will have no trouble finding work for those skills.

In the massively expanding world aircraft sector there are lots of nations building planes but few making the specialist engines and components for them. Guss who does those things so well?
 
It makes sense....

No wait. No it doesn't.

What have they done to themselves?
 
Diminuendo said:
~ What have they done to themselves?
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The majority of workers in the endangered industries tended to vote for Brexit.

Tim the plumber said:
If the aircraft industry of the EU thinks it can find 14,000 very highly skilled people easily they are going to have a big problem.
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You think the German technical industry doesn't have swathes of people who could step in? The French also are angling for all sorts of industry that is set to leave the UK.

Tim the plumber said:
The world outside the EU however will have no trouble finding work for those skills.
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Well, China already has one Airbus plant, maybe those Brexiteers can find work in China?

Tim the plumber said:
In the massively expanding world aircraft sector there are lots of nations building planes but few making the specialist engines and components for them. Guss who does those things so well?
The one area that we do well and is profitable is Rolls Royce and they only need so many people.

No, the real message of the OP is that we still have uncertainty and Industry hates uncertainty. No avoiding that part.
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Infinite Chaos said:
My bet is still that the majority of British staff employed at these plants voted for Brexit, full well knowing that they were voting for their jobs to end. Other manufacturers have invested in the UK since the vote pr announced plans to invest so we are going to see a huge sea-change in industry here.

What we have done to ourselves.....
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It was warned before Brexit and it has been happening since. Car makers are already moving production elsewhere in the EU, despite announcing "new cars being made".. it is just a smoke screen.

Manufacturing has been in decline for generations in the UK, and what is left now, is mostly owned by foreign companies who will not hesitate to move production elsewhere unless they are compensated to not doing so.This was already happening before Brexit, where the UK government promised god knows what to Nissan and others to keep the UK car manufacturing in country. Now that Brexit negotiations are failing bad, then those companies will reconsider their position.

One of the biggest problems has been the UK governments inability to deal with Brexit internally. No plans.. period. Only this week was the position to handle Brexit and aviation put up... Brexit is under a year away, and they have not even started dealing with the chaos of open skies..
 
Brexit: PM 'not bluffing' over no-deal, says Fox

Liam Fox said Theresa May was "not bluffing" over her threat to quit negotiations, while Boris Johnson called for a "full British Brexit". Link.
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Like Lemmings, we seem committed to marching in lockstep over that cliff with as little preparation as possible. These headlines are the worst kind of headlines for major businesses trying to plan investment expenditure and development.

External investment however continues to be high - from Chinese buying up property on the cheap as sterling fell to some companies consolidating and then on to other companies facing take-over.
 
I said all along when people were considering which way to vote that perhaps the greatest uncertainty associated with leaving the EU is that no country has ever done it before, so no one can/could predict the exact resulting consequences of a yes vote. It's new ground.

A year out and it's a mess. Still so many unanswered questions and too much uncertainty.

Beautiful Country, great people. I'm not taking any satisfaction from watching the uncertainty many are facing, that's for sure.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Since WW1 and that decline was from an Empire and supposed superpower.



I think the BRICS, China and EU can pull together but yeah at the moment things don't look good globally.
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The one good thing is that the rest of the world can still trade relatively freely with each other, having plenty of countries to sell their stuff. Unfortunately for US citizens their costs will only go up and up and their factories will loose more customers because of the trade tariffs, and because they are in that fight with most countries around the world that buy and sell stuff from the US, the US factories will have to pay more to get their half products and basic materials and the US customer will have to pay more for those products. On top of that US factories who want to export to other countries now see their customers having to pay 25% more for their products so their sales will slump leading to job losses in the US.

Nobody wins in a trade war but some countries are at risk of loosing the most. And that country is most likely the United States of Trump.
 
Serenity said:
I said all along when people were considering which way to vote that perhaps the greatest uncertainty associated with leaving the EU is that no country has ever done it before, so no one can/could predict the exact resulting consequences of a yes vote. It's new ground.

A year out and it's a mess. Still so many unanswered questions and too much uncertainty.

Beautiful Country, great people. I'm not taking any satisfaction from watching the uncertainty many are facing, that's for sure.
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I think most companies and the EU made it quite clear what would happen. The UK will not be allowed to leave without being punished, severely.
 
Carjosse said:
~ The UK will not be allowed to leave without being punished, severely.
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The "Exiteers" keep saying this in particular but it's meaningless. The EU will be damaged by our exit - not as much as we will be. The EU will also be able to go ahead with several things that the UK has repeatedly blocked.

We have been America's 5th column in the EU - blocking an EU army, allowing former Eastern Bloc countries to join on American behest and to spite Russia.

Anyhow, back on "punishing" the UK - we're doing that to ourselves, other countries have queued up to join and if we get a deal that makes membership unworthy, there is no point in having an accession process.
 
Serenity said:
I said all along when people were considering which way to vote that perhaps the greatest uncertainty associated with leaving the EU is that no country has ever done it before, so no one can/could predict the exact resulting consequences of a yes vote. It's new ground.

A year out and it's a mess. Still so many unanswered questions and too much uncertainty.

Beautiful Country, great people. I'm not taking any satisfaction from watching the uncertainty many are facing, that's for sure.
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The only certainty is that Britain will be worse off outside than in. There is no form of Brexit that leaves us better off. The uncertainty surrounds how bad it's going to be.
There was a huge march in London today as anti Brexit groups rallied to demand another referendum on the final deal (or not!) reached.

The BBC has taken on the government "leave" line ever since the vote, and it's mildy surprising to find them reporting this demonstration as much as they have.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44586638
 
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Tim the plumber said:
If the aircraft industry of the EU thinks it can find 14,000 very highly skilled people easily they are going to have a big problem.
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Necessity is the mother of invention. There will be a major effort put in by the French, Spanish and German governments to gear up industrial production to fill that gap. It'll be a boon for the aerospace industries in those countries.

The world outside the EU however will have no trouble finding work for those skills.
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Who will? The US? China? Russia? Sure they'll love boosting their outsourcing.
 
Carjosse said:
I think most companies and the EU made it quite clear what would happen. The UK will not be allowed to leave without being punished, severely.
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It's not about punishment, it's cold hard logic. Abandoning a trading partner 20 miles away, with which you have a massive refund on your membership and 60% of ypour trade, in order to forge agreements world wide with people you abondoned 30 years ago, and Trump the agreement ripper is insane. Some made money off Brexit. The 1%.

Dgha_NaW0AAG5fX.jpg:large
 
Andalublue said:
Necessity is the mother of invention. There will be a major effort put in by the French, Spanish and German governments to gear up industrial production to fill that gap. It'll be a boon for the aerospace industries in those countries.

Who will? The US? China? Russia? Sure they'll love boosting their outsourcing.
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When a Boeing uses Royals Royce engines it is not generally called outsourcing. Just a component of the aircraft.
 
Tim the plumber said:
When a Boeing uses Royals Royce engines it is not generally called outsourcing. Just a component of the aircraft.
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Before confusion begins to rise to the extent of eventual "unravellment", let's clear up a few matters here:

1. Neither the OP nor the article linked to within says anything about aircraft engines nor (in this instance) RR

2. The possibly endangered jobs sit in production plants of Airbus in the UK (not with RR)

3. Those plants (primarily in Filton and Broughton) build wings.

WINGS !!!

4. One may add that they're also engaged in overall design as well as the supply of the fuel system, yet these two fields do not account for the gross number of jobs possibly imperilled.

4. RR is not owned by Airbus, it simply supplies engines. Same as Pratt and Whitney (US) and CFM (joint venture of US-General Electric and French Safran).

As such your idea that the world outside the UK is just waiting for British air-wings specialists to flood it, remains highly doubtful.

Incidentally Airbus also uses plenty of other additional UK suppliers for just as many items and hanging onto those after a hard Brexit will understandably be seen as bearing little economic merit.

For a broader overview of overall impact you might find reading

this

helpful.
 
Chagos said:
Before confusion begins to rise to the extent of eventual "unravellment", let's clear up a few matters here:

1. Neither the OP nor the article linked to within says anything about aircraft engines nor (in this instance) RR

2. The possibly endangered jobs sit in production plants of Airbus in the UK (not with RR)

3. Those plants (primarily in Filton and Broughton) build wings.

WINGS !!!

4. One may add that they're also engaged in overall design as well as the supply of the fuel system, yet these two fields do not account for the gross number of jobs possibly imperilled.

4. RR is not owned by Airbus, it simply supplies engines. Same as Pratt and Whitney (US) and CFM (joint venture of US-General Electric and French Safran).

As such your idea that the world outside the UK is just waiting for British air-wings specialists to flood it, remains highly doubtful.

Incidentally Airbus also uses plenty of other additional UK suppliers for just as many items and hanging onto those after a hard Brexit will understandably be seen as bearing little economic merit.

For a broader overview of overall impact you might find reading

this

helpful.
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So your argument seems to be that the Continental Europeans need to have a decent deal just as much as we Brits.

We Brits will face the possible pain that may well be coming. We understand that sovrenty and difference from the rest takes sacrifice and that the ecconomists don't understand the economic advantage of being different because it will never fit into any equaision.

Soon, as the time for prevarication runs out the EU will start to get their heads around that idea. They will do a decent deal.

And if not we will manage.
 
The interests of multi-nationals should not prevail over the votes of the electorate, and I find it a little nauseating to see Remainers becoming such cheer-leaders of big business. I suppose they've failed to win any argument thus far, despite Project Fear, despite insulting Brexiters, and now despite jumping on the band-wagon of trans-national corporates who make huge amounts of profit.

Those who make money out of the UK and its workers are of course going to shout loudly about Brexit. But going all tearful about the plight of multi-nationals is not going to cut any more ice than all the other failed scare stories.
 
Tim the plumber said:

So your argument seems to be that the Continental Europeans need to have a decent deal just as much as we Brits.
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Actually my argument (in this particular instance) is that that the jobs in question have nothing to do with RR and its jet engines.

Beyond which I'll happily go along with your stance, even where it detracts a bit from the issue I was trying to clarify.
We Brits will face the possible pain that may well be coming. We understand that sovrenty and difference from the rest takes sacrifice and that the ecconomists don't understand the economic advantage of being different because it will never fit into any equaision.
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seeing how economists hardly deal in such "emotional" fields as being different (and be that for the simple sake of so being), it's hardly surprising that they won't go down that road. Not so much a matter of not understanding, more one of not making "difference" the foremost priority. That works for those shareholder-minded on both sides of the Channel BTW.
Soon, as the time for prevarication runs out the EU will start to get their heads around that idea. They will do a decent deal.
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this constant accusation of only one side prevaricating is getting tiresome.
And if not we will manage.
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both sides will and both will be worse off.

As to who will be off worst, I find getting into that one as tiresome as the constant efforts to demonize only one side. So I'll leave it.
 
Westphalian said:
~ I suppose they've failed to win any argument thus far ~
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Yeah, the Battle bus with the £350million a week really shut the remain argument down didn't it.

Anyhow, what you are unaware of is that for many (not all) leavers, they don't care what happens to the economy.
 
To me, the Brexit vote was more an anti-immigration vote since it occurred with a backdrop of Syrian refugees flowing into Europe. I would say (although in hindsight) it was rather shortsighted of the UK to hold this referendum during that particular time.
 
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