• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Russia’s Ongoing Violations in Ukraine

DaveFagan said:
There was no invasion in Crimea. 25,000 Russians soldiers were already stationed in Crimea. Crimeans and the Donbass didn't aprove the coup d'etat resulting from a $5 billion investment by the CIA. The Crimeans liked being annexed. The Donbass requested to be annexed. Can't you read?
/
Click to expand...

Let us address THIS lie.

It’s a conspiracy with mainstream crossover: The United States bankrolled the bloody political uprising in Ukraine.

We saw the claim pop up recently in a story on RT (the Russian-funded English language cable network), and found lots of talk about it on reddit, Facebook and other websites.

The claims have the same basic structure. While President Barack Obama publicly said Ukrainians have the right to determine their own future, the U.S. government pumped $5 billion into the country to promote regime change.

In a Facebook meme, someone put it this way:

Obama "spends $5 billion paying Ukrainians to riot and dismantle their democratically elected government."

Where it came from:

"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations," she said. "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."

Since 1991....

When was the rebellion?

Our ruling

Contrary to claims, the United States did not spend $5 billion to incite the rebellion in Ukraine.

That’s a distorted understanding of remarks given by a State Department official. She was referring to money spent on democracy-building programs in Ukraine since it broke off from the Soviet Union in 1991.

The United States spent $5 billion on Ukraine anti-government riots | PunditFact
 
Fledermaus said:
Let us address THIS lie.

It’s a conspiracy with mainstream crossover: The United States bankrolled the bloody political uprising in Ukraine.

We saw the claim pop up recently in a story on RT (the Russian-funded English language cable network), and found lots of talk about it on reddit, Facebook and other websites.

The claims have the same basic structure. While President Barack Obama publicly said Ukrainians have the right to determine their own future, the U.S. government pumped $5 billion into the country to promote regime change.

In a Facebook meme, someone put it this way:

Obama "spends $5 billion paying Ukrainians to riot and dismantle their democratically elected government."

Where it came from:

"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations," she said. "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."

Since 1991....

When was the rebellion?

Our ruling

Contrary to claims, the United States did not spend $5 billion to incite the rebellion in Ukraine.

That’s a distorted understanding of remarks given by a State Department official. She was referring to money spent on democracy-building programs in Ukraine since it broke off from the Soviet Union in 1991.

The United States spent $5 billion on Ukraine anti-government riots | PunditFact
Click to expand...

Dumbest mother on the Planet. I rest my case. The CIA, NED, USAID, specialize in subversion and covert manipulations of governments and Ukraine is their trophy.
/
 
DaveFagan said:
Dumbest mother on the Planet. I rest my case. The CIA, NED, USAID, specialize in subversion and covert manipulations of governments and Ukraine is their trophy.
/
Click to expand...

TRANSLATION: There wasn't $5 billion CIA money going towards the overthrow of the Russian puppet.


BTW Dave... Your sources?
 
DaveFagan said:
Dumbest mother on the Planet. I rest my case. The CIA, NED, USAID, specialize in subversion and covert manipulations of governments and Ukraine is their trophy.
/
Click to expand...

USAID?

:lamo
 
DaveFagan said:
Dumbest mother on the Planet. I rest my case. The CIA, NED, USAID, specialize in subversion and covert manipulations of governments and Ukraine is their trophy.
/
Click to expand...

Dave... YOUR sources?

Dave...You made the claim of $5 billion. Anything to back that up? And have you read the article I linked to?

Dave... If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears... Is it still a CIA false flag event?
 
Fledermaus said:
Dave... YOUR sources?

Dave...You made the claim of $5 billion. Anything to back that up? And have you read the article I linked to?

Dave... If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears... Is it still a CIA false flag event?
Click to expand...

Honduras, Guatamala, Haiti, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Panama, Colombia, Brazil, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Iran, Cuba, Congo, Dominican Republic, etc.
Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip, Operation Phoenix, Operation Chaos,
" A Timeline of CIA Atrocities

By Steve Kangas




The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA. (1)
CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow."
 
DaveFagan said:
Honduras, Guatamala, Haiti, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Panama, Colombia, Brazil, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Iran, Cuba, Congo, Dominican Republic, etc.
Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip, Operation Phoenix, Operation Chaos,
" A Timeline of CIA Atrocities

By Steve Kangas




The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA. (1)
CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow."
Click to expand...

Hey, look...

You were asked for your sources for your UKRAINE lies.

And you don't provide your sources and instead posts an OPINION piece that has nothing to do with the UKRAINE.

The article mentions the UKRAINE not once.

In other words... Dodging.
 
DaveFagan said:
Honduras, Guatamala, Haiti, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Panama, Colombia, Brazil, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Iran, Cuba, Congo, Dominican Republic, etc.
Operation Mockingbird, Operation Paperclip, Operation Phoenix, Operation Chaos, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.
Click to expand...

The CIA isn't blameless, nor is any security service on this planet.

But your penchant (and mission) to blame the CIA exclusively for everything imaginable while totally exculpating Russia's FSB, GRU, SVR etc. is as disingenuous as it is treasonous.

Plainly put, you're an anti-US Putin/Russia apologist/agent masquerading as some sort of hippy-dippy White Knight saving the world from the US DEEP STATE. Pathetic.
 
Oh yeah. Still waiting for those links Fagan. You like to post disinformation, but never leave links.

Both Fledermaus and I have asked you repeatedly for the links to your Ukraine claims on Page 3.

Where are they?
 
DaveFagan said:
Commonly used Front organization for covert CIA activities. Since you worked for them you know that.
/
Click to expand...

My agricultural development research was independent. I paid for everything. All my contacts were Kenyan, first a friend then a college. I did not have an organization, guide, adviser or anything else from outside the country. This is true for 2002, 06 and 10-12 (a longitudinal study).

There is a saying about visitors in Kenya, "Europeans come in groups, Americans come alone".

Why do you think I worked for USAID; because I don't buy your nutbag conspiracy?
 
Last edited:
DaveFagan said:
By Steve Kangas
Click to expand...

Steve Kangas (Steven Robert Esh, May 11, 1961 – February 8, 1999) was a journalist, political activist and chess teacher known for his website Liberalism Resurgent [1] and highly political usenet postings.[2] Until 1986 he allegedly worked for the U.S. military.[citation needed] His stay in Berlin turned him from a conservative into an outspoken liberal.[3] His writings were sharply critical of the business propaganda of the overclass[4] and the CIA.[5]

Death
On February 8, 1999, Kangas was found dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound in a restroom on the 39th floor of the One Oxford Center, Pittsburgh, home to the offices of Richard Mellon Scaife. Kangas’ blood alcohol was 0.14 and his backpack contained 47 rounds of ammunition and a copy of Hitler's Mein Kampf.[6][7]
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Kangas

A would-be mass shooter.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom