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Stats compared: UK stabbings 2018 vs US shootings 2018

Manc Skipper said:
"Your second-amendment rights are under seige today!" ... "Your rights will never be under seige while I'm your President!"...Who does he think he is?
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A president who knows what to say a crowd of his supporters. Remember, Trump just wants praise for what he does; acknowledgement is key. Whether what he says makes sense takes a back seat. Are they under siege? Not in any real way through legislation, so he's talking about public sentiment. You have to wonder how much of that is NRA sound bytes because they know the moment people feel laws may restrict their ability to purchase firearms sales go up; sales have been down since Trump got elected.
 
Crovax said:
And yet predominantly white places have a much lower crime and murder rate. It has nothing to do with "brown folk" as you put it but more to do with cultural homogeneity.
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Not just that but economics. Poor people in this country are far more likely to commit crimes because of their situation. Race/ethnicity are cop outs that are easy to use because blaming things on obvious factors is easier than dealing with poverty and its consequences.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
How many millions died of gunshot in Europe in WWI and WW2?

Russian or Spanish Civil Wars? We wont even speak of the magnitude of violent premature deaths ( bombing, artillery )which would make the already soaring numbers go stratospheric. Since we last liberated, occupied then protected y'alls butts after your last major screw up, its been a bit more civilized at American taxpayer expense.

So you are right...not even close.
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Lol wow ....
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
How many millions died of gunshot in Europe in WWI and WW2?
Russian or Spanish Civil Wars? We wont even speak of the magnitude of violent premature deaths ( bombing, artillery )which would make the already soaring numbers go stratospheric. Since we last liberated, occupied then protected y'alls butts after your last major screw up, its been a bit more civilized at American taxpayer expense.
So you are right...not even close.
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Manc Skipper said:
Dismissed for inanity.
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Higgins86 said:
Lol wow ....
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Baaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.... :lamo ahahahaha.... "The homicide rate in Europe is actually higher than the US if you go back 70-100 years and add both world wars! Checkmate euro-dicks!" :doh
 
Lets try a little bit of perspective not considered here;

Population of the UK : 65,577,608
Population of the US: 327.876 million

Size wise the UK is approximately the size of our state of Oregon.

Now just where would one expect the higher instance of any figure?
 
Casper said:
Apple's and Oranges......
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You're right, it really is comparing apples and oranges, which is why we should compare the intentional homicide rate of both countries instead. Turns out the UK is safer than the US by every metric and by a dramatic margin.

Sabre said:
Lets try a little bit of perspective not considered here;
Population of the UK : 65,577,608
Population of the US: 327.876 million
Size wise the UK is approximately the size of our state of Oregon.
Now just where would one expect the higher instance of any figure?
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Hey bud, crime statistics are compared on a per capita basis, that means adjusted for population size. In the US you are 5 times more likely to be murdered than the UK.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Dismissed for inanity.
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Hardly.

On what debatable basis? Were guns used? Did deaths occur? Were bad European governmental policies/laws that led to these massive gun deaths? Have those tens of milions of deaths by guns been reprised since WW2, upon our establishing leadership and taking our more numerous little buddies under our protective wing?

You can ignore our far and away better long term policies, our second amendment guarding against such tyrannies and massive loss of life. But the facts remain. If you are even the least bit bright you can come to an understanding that individuals, even small groups, with intent to do harm may occasionally erupt in a free society.

But the consequences of over regulation of the right to bear arms on your continent, hell the entire hemisphere, has led to untold destruction, misery, despair and death.

Thats ON YOU. The sanctimonious self righteousness stinks of more than ignorance, and the past results are ...

Undeniable.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Baaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.... :lamo ahahahaha.... "The homicide rate in Europe is actually higher than the US if you go back 70-100 years and add both world wars! Checkmate euro-dicks!" :doh
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Yup.

Deny it over the LONG TERM. Go ahead, deny it. I am already laughing, but I want to hear you deny it. Laughing away without anything in suport is a rebuttal only to those who cannot even castle ( we had to bomb the hell outta those at times, too ).

Yup, thank you. Check. Mate, mate...:lamo:
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Yup.

Deny it over the LONG TERM. Go ahead, deny it. I am already laughing, but I want to hear you deny it. Laughing away without anything in suport is a rebuttal only to those who cannot even castle ( we had to bomb the hell outta those at times, too ).

Yup, thank you. Check. Mate, mate...:lamo:
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So your argument is that no current crime statistics can be discussed, only the net crime rate over all of human history? This is getting dumber.

You're just trying to distract from the fact that the US is dramatically more dangerous RIGHT NOW than the entirety of western Europe.
 
Casper said:
Apple's and Oranges......
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Haha, read the OP - the failed American argument on gun debates is "you can't compare" well your President just did.

Gaugingcatenate said:
Over the long term the US with our second amendment rights have had far fewer gun violence, violence overall, deaths. Sorry to be the one to have to break it to ya.
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And how far is this foolishness going? The recorded first gun death in Europe vs the first recorded gun death in the USA? Nobody is fooled by this stupid argument.

Crovax said:
The US also has 5 times the amount of minorities that the UK and most of western Europe does and they commit a very disproportionate amount of crimes.
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Sabre said:
Lets try a little bit of perspective not considered here
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Had time to look at this.

2013 for one example - taking only homicide arrests by white Americans in one year = 4486 against 552 by ALL colours of UK citizens. Divide each number by number of citizens USA 316.2 million citizens vs UK 64.13 million citizens. This gives you a figure of 1 murder per 70,485 people in the US and 1 murder per 116,177people in the UK.

Gaugingcatenate said:
How many millions died of gunshot in Europe in WWI and WW2?
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Just to humour this idiotic argument, tell me how you're separating killings by US soldiers vs killings by European soldiers in this weak sauce argument of yours?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
So your argument is that no current crime statistics can be discussed, only the net crime rate over all of human history? This is getting dumber.

You're just trying to distract from the fact that the US is dramatically more dangerous RIGHT NOW than the entirety of western Europe.
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I know you are over "there"...and you arent as free to speak openly as we are here...but you are still able to look up what long term means, right? Heavens no, Not all human history...but logically since the inception of our brilliant counter to tryanny, our Constitution, our bill of rights and particularly the first and the second amendments.

We have a pretty good idea of how our policy perfomed in direct comparison to the tragic stupidities foisted upon Europeans and then, by unforgivable extension, the entire rest of the world beyond in those intervening years since ratification. You know, as I originally asserted, LONG TERM, do we not?

No distraction at all. A simple reminder that you are just ignoring the far worse, horrific, long term effects of the government restrictions on individual rights.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Hey bud, crime statistics are compared on a per capita basis, that means adjusted for population size. In the US you are 5 times more likely to be murdered than the UK.
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So then bud, if America is such a bad place perhaps all those down on America should do a better job of spreading that word.

Since 2002 people legally immigrate to the US at the rate over 1,000,000 per year, legal immigrants to the United States now are at their highest level ever, well over 37,000,000 legal immigrants. Now add to that those who leave their countries and come here illegally, there were 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2015 and this is 2018 and the flow has continued. Combine the totals and we have almost taken in the total population of the UK.....

If you want to do something about the terrible statistics of the US, get the word out, America is a terrible place, don't go there.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
~ but logically since the inception of our brilliant counter to tryanny, our Constitution, our bill of rights and particularly the first and the second amendments.

We have a pretty good idea of how our policy perfomed in direct comparison to the tragic stupidities foisted upon Europeans ~
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Erm no, your silly argument dies at birth. If I continue to humour you, handgun bans in the UK only came in after the Hungerford massacre in 1987. That period also saw tighter restrictions on other weapons.

So by your own petard - you can't use WW1 and WW2 figures (which also include shootings by American military personnel) and can only start in 1987 for the UK.

You fail on so many accounts.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
I know you are over "there"...and you arent as free to speak openly as we are here...but you are still able to look up what long term means, right? Heavens no, Not all human history...but logically since the inception of our brilliant counter to tryanny, our Constitution, our bill of rights and particularly the first and the second amendments.

We have a pretty good idea of how our policy perfomed in direct comparison to the tragic stupidities foisted upon Europeans and then, by unforgivable extension, the entire rest of the world beyond in those intervening years since ratification. You know, as I originally asserted, LONG TERM, do we not?

No distraction at all. A simple reminder that you are just ignoring the far worse, horrific, long term effects of the government restrictions on individual rights.
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All western European nations, many with and without gun rights, are dramatically safer than the US. This is not political statement, it's a fact.

Sabre said:
So then bud, if America is such a bad place perhaps all those down on America should do a better job of spreading that word.

Since 2002 people legally immigrate to the US at the rate over 1,000,000 per year, legal immigrants to the United States now are at their highest level ever, well over 37,000,000 legal immigrants. Now add to that those who leave their countries and come here illegally, there were 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. in 2015 and this is 2018 and the flow has continued. Combine the totals and we have almost taken in the total population of the UK.....

If you want to do something about the terrible statistics of the US, get the word out, America is a terrible place, don't go there.
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Blame the immigrants for all of our problems. What a new concept. :roll:
 
Infinite Chaos said:
And how far is this foolishness going? The recorded first gun death in Europe vs the first recorded gun death in the USA? Nobody is fooled by this stupid argument.




Just to humour this idiotic argument, tell me how you're separating killings by US soldiers vs killings by European soldiers in this weak sauce argument of yours?
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Your first sentence, "I often get told by US posters when they are backed into a corner "ah, you can't compare the US (for shootings) against any other country".

I am comparing from the inception of OUR great bill of rights. We have been able to curb the far more dangerous, murderous killing through means of arms by government juxaposed to the rather stray, random and comparatively small incidents of violence and injury/death by individually armed folks.

The numbers are exponentially increased by factors of thousands of the same when collectively those individuals cannot remain the masters, cannot control their own governments.

The US did not start those European nor Asian nor African wars. We, over here in the Western, have had relatively minor wars in comparison to the humongous monstrosities inflicted upon the world by your hemisphere. Since we tossed out European rule we have been more of a peace keeper, establisher and maintainer.

Much of that can be attributed to our reverence for individual liberties. Free societies are going to probably always have the occasional tragedy...thats solely a price of being free.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
All western European nations, many with and without gun rights, are dramatically safer than the US. This is not political statement, it's a fact.
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Not over the long term. Proven. Undeniable.

Our ability in the US to tame those who without the fear of their own people have become the most destructive of life and property the world has ever known in just the last century, with or without gun rights...how can one be so blind to wounds so recent and so deep?
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Not over the long term. Proven. Undeniable.

Our ability in the US to tame those who without the fear of their own people have become the most destructive of life and property the world has ever known in just the last century, with or without gun rights...how can one be so blind to wounds so recent and so deep?
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You're dismissing America's current problems completely by saying "we're still better in the long run". How is that healthy for a nation? We can't even recognize our own problems without you breaking out these dishonest mental gymnastics?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You're dismissing America's current problems completely by saying "we're still better in the long run". How is that healthy for a nation? We can't even recognize our own problems without you breaking out these dishonest mental gymnastics?
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No, just dont like old ladies lighting their own hair, running around screaming the apopcolypse is upon us all.

If we are better in the long run, that isnt good in your estimation? Jesus, man, get a grip. Crime rates over th last quarter century in the US have pretty much plummetted dramatically.

Right?


How many tyrannies has the US endured in our 240 year history? In the same period, how many did Europe endure? What was the number of lives lost due to in tyrannies in the US? Europe?


Do you think that is just luck, or might it have something to do with the way we govern ourselves...and others I might add. With the Monroe Doctrine, later the Roosevelt Corollary, we prevented Europeans from infecting our hemisphere any more than they already had. Our reverence for individual rights, the idea that the people are sovereign, not the government who are our servants only, and we keep our government in obeyance by our guarenteed individual freedoms one of which is our important 2nd.

The Western hemi has been an ongoing basket case counting over 100 million lives taken just by governments just last century. Undeniable.

If we should ever approach anywhere near those style numbers, 1 million pet year, in our hemi... then maybe its time to reconsider. Until then, douse the flames, pull up your collective panties and leave the law abiding alone for gods sake.

Its not broke, so dont tinker with it, damn it.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
All western European nations, many with and without gun rights, are dramatically safer than the US. This is not political statement, it's a fact.

Blame the immigrants for all of our problems. What a new concept. :roll:
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Sorry but your bias is showing, I never blamed any immigrant for anything, in fact, I suggested if you thought America was so bad you should persuade them to stay away from here for their own safety - The point, you would have seen without blinders, was that millions of people disagree with your assertion that America is so terrible, enough so that some leave everything they have to enter here no matter what.

Jump to conclusions much?
 
Sabre said:
Sorry but your bias is showing, I never blamed any immigrant for anything, in fact, I suggested if you thought America was so bad you should persuade them to stay away from here for their own safety - The point, you would have seen without blinders, was that millions of people disagree with your assertion that America is so terrible, enough so that some leave everything they have to enter here no matter what.

Jump to conclusions much?
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Now you're ignoring the crime statistics all together because we're the land of the free and blah blah blah? Loving your country is recognizing when it has a problem, not making up bull**** to try to cover up its blemishes. The crime rate has nothing to do with immigrants wanting or not wanting to enter the US, you're attempting to distract.

The thread is about comparing violent crime rates in the US and the UK and the facts speak for themselves. In America you're dramatically more likely to be murdered than in the UK. That is a fact.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Now you're ignoring the crime statistics all together because we're the land of the free and blah blah blah? Loving your country is recognizing when it has a problem, not making up bull**** to try to cover up its blemishes. The crime rate has nothing to do with immigrants wanting or not wanting to enter the US, you're attempting to distract.

The thread is about comparing violent crime rates in the US and the UK and the facts speak for themselves. In America you're dramatically more likely to be murdered than in the UK. That is a fact.
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Who is spreading bull now??? I never in any way said or inferred that the crime rate had anything to do in anyway with immigrants, that is entirely your own sad attempt at distraction. Yeah, I know what the tread is about and what I presented was clearly stated in my first sentence.....
Lets try a little bit of perspective not considered here;
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That was to point out, as you certainly know but avoid, the size and population difference between the two countries. There is a correlation in the variance between those numbers and the likely hood of being murdered. You lefties always seem to fall back on distraction, twisting things said and inferring things not said in order to try and validate your positions. You are sliding down a rabbit hole with that and you may continue that slide on your own, I have no desire to follow you down.
 
Crovax said:
The US also has 5 times the amount of minorities that the UK and most of western Europe does and they commit a very disproportionate amount of crimes.
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Your not supposed to point that out, very un PC.

*edit* you have already been called "racist" for pointing it out, as I expected you would be. Intelligent people call it realist, not "waysiss".
 
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Crovax said:
The US also has 5 times the amount of minorities that the UK and most of western Europe does and they commit a very disproportionate amount of crimes.
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Crime is linked to poverty and minorities are generally poorer, largely because they don't have any generational wealth to speak of. Once you control for wealth you'll find that the proportion of crime is much more even amongst race.

Slingshot Bob said:
Your not supposed to point that out, very un PC.

*edit* you have already been called "racist" for pointing it out, as I expected you would be. Intelligent people call it realist, not "waysiss".
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Intelligent people control for confounding variables instead of attributing behavioural differences to the melatonin level in ones skin.
 
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