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German Coalition Talks Collapse

some people are just hopeless dicks...eh Charlie Brown.
 
Jack Hays said:
FDR was the President Reagan admired most.
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I thought it was Coolidge

Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan
In his autobiography, Ronald Reagan: An American Life, President Ronald Reagan wrote praise of President Calvin Coolidge, saying that he “always thought of Coolidge as one of our most underrated presidents.”[1] Reagan further wrote:
He [Coolidge] wasn’t a man with flamboyant looks or style, but he got things done in a quiet way. He came into office after World War I facing a momentous war debt, but instead of raising taxes, he cut the tax rate and government revenues increased, permitting him to eliminate the wartime debt…[2]
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Reagan would be the first occupant of the White House to directly challenge the New Deal and Great Society legacy.
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Who Were the Presidents’ Favorite Presidents?

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8. Ronald Reagan

The Gipper was quite fond of Calvin Coolidge. “I happen to be an admirer of silent Cal,” he said, “and believe he has been badly treated by history… I’ve done considerable reading and researching of his presidency. He served his country well and accomplished much.” Reagan’s decision to replace the Cabinet Room’s long-standing Truman portrait with Coolidge’s likeness caused a brief media uproar in 1980.
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I don't remember Reagan saying FDR was most admired, maybe back when he was a Democrat?
 
CletusWilbury said:
I thought it was Coolidge

Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan


Who Were the Presidents’ Favorite Presidents?



I don't remember Reagan saying FDR was most admired, maybe back when he was a Democrat?
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First Principles - Ronald Reagan on Franklin Roosevelt: The Significance of Style - First Principles Journal
www.firstprinciplesjournal.com › print


As president, Reagan often mentioned his admiration for FDR's spirit of leadership. On a trip back to his alma mater, Eureka College, in 1984, he reminded his listeners what it was like to experience the Great ...







Reagan: FDR's True Heir | RealClearPolitics
RealClearPolitics › articles › 2017/07/02


Jul 2, 2017 · Common wisdom holds that Ronald Reagan, a devoted FDR acolyte during Roosevelt's life, became the most powerful opponent of his legacy after Reagan's swing to the right. But the ...




 
Jack Hays said:
Yes. The Thuringians and Saxons were why I said "much."
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You two are quite familar with the complicated history of my homecountry.

I´m Wesphalian - we first were part of the Saxon tribe, than under Barbarossa who banned Henry the Lion of Saxony and destroyed Saxony - we came to the Archbishop of Cologne for a few hundred Years and in the early 19th we became a prussian province

But I am in no way prussian - even if the Bavarians would say that.

And very important: there are no Saxons in todays Saxony! The descendants of the Saxons live in lower Saxony, Anhalt, Holstein, Westphalia and England. ;o)

sorry for offtopic - early history is something very interesting for me ;o)
 
AfD gains 12.6%, and all Hell breaks lose.

I do believe some members of the German Elite think that they hear the beginnings of a stampede of the people.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
AfD gains 12.6%, and all Hell breaks lose.

I do believe some members of the German Elite think that they hear the beginnings of a stampede of the people.
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Well if the SPD goes into government again, then the AfD will be the biggest opposition party which does give them considerable power. That is what most "German Elite" might be panicking a tad about. We shall see.
 
PeteEU said:
Well if the SPD goes into government again, then the AfD will be the biggest opposition party which does give them considerable power. That is what most "German Elite" might be panicking a tad about. We shall see.
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The biggest opposition party they might then be but they'd still be making up only a bit more of a quarter of the opposition.

Thing I don't understand is the crazedness with which some German parties want to stifle them by overtaking them on the right.

The CSU tried practically nothing other in Bavaria and incurred the biggest losses of its history. I mean who is going to vote for a cheap copy if he can have the original?
 
Jack Hays said:
First Principles - Ronald Reagan on Franklin Roosevelt: The Significance of Style - First Principles Journal
www.firstprinciplesjournal.com › print


As president, Reagan often mentioned his admiration for FDR's spirit of leadership. On a trip back to his alma mater, Eureka College, in 1984, he reminded his listeners what it was like to experience the Great ...



Reagan: FDR's True Heir | RealClearPolitics
RealClearPolitics › articles › 2017/07/02


Jul 2, 2017 · Common wisdom holds that Ronald Reagan, a devoted FDR acolyte during Roosevelt's life, became the most powerful opponent of his legacy after Reagan's swing to the right. But the ...
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Thanks. Great reply, as usual. Seems like the two articles have much different opinions on how the two were similar in their policies.

One of his better known quotes : "The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
 
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Chagos said:
The biggest opposition party they might then be but they'd still be making up only a bit more of a quarter of the opposition.

Thing I don't understand is the crazedness with which some German parties want to stifle them by overtaking them on the right.
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Does not matter. Being the biggest opposition party, brings certain privileges in the running of Parliament and the agenda. It also means chairmanships of committees and so on.. which means agenda setting.

The CSU tried practically nothing other in Bavaria and incurred the biggest losses of its history. I mean who is going to vote for a cheap copy if he can have the original?
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Again it comes down to how the legislative branch is run. The main opposition party has considerable power in running the legislative branch.. it is down to the balance of power, for good or bad.
 
I just hope SPD reject Merkel too like FDP did, and there will be the fresh elections. And afterwards, a chance for non-Merkel coalition government would be great (without AfD) I am not sure if SPD+FDP+Greens combined would get majority after new elections, but I can hope.

Europe really had enough of Merkel. Germans will decide of course.
 
PeteEU said:
Well if the SPD goes into government again, then the AfD will be the biggest opposition party which does give them considerable power. That is what most "German Elite" might be panicking a tad about. We shall see.
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That is exactly why SPD decided that they need to be in opposition, because the opposition to the status quo keeps growing and will continue to grow because Germany is not working to solve the problems that must be solved, and if AfD is the only party in true opposition then they will get those votes, and does anyone in power really want that? The example was given how Germany has abandoned the German poor even as it throws gobs of money at the Muslim invaders, there is no way that does not eventually become toxic to the Elite if they dont change course, and to this point they show zero desire to change course. The SPD insist that they are going a good deed by not joining the government, even as they are tared and feathered for not joining the government to keep the status quo going....they are taking the long view of what Germany needs where as everyone else is just trying to get through the day.
 
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I am dropping this here, well worth a read:

Just two years after the defeat of Nazi Germany, the French-Algerian author (and member of the French resistance) Albert Camus deployed the extended metaphor of a pestilential plague to write about the rise of right-wing totalitarianism. The plague begins underground and in dark corners, with rats spreading it among the human population. To defend against it, its would-be victims deploy public health measures, including quarantine.

This approach to understanding and defending against the far right has become pervasive in Europe, where some countries make it a crime to espouse virulently anti-liberal views, and where it is treated as obvious by centrists that far-right parties should never be permitted to join governing coalitions. As long as such parties received few votes, this restriction seemed like a sensible precaution as well as a powerful statement that liberal toleration has its limits.

But now that far-right parties are receiving a significant share of the vote, the reliance on quarantine has become problematic.
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Liberals' clueless crusade against far-right extremists


When the Elite fail to take care of business eventually "THAT'S GROSS, SHUT UP, NOW!" stops working to keep those who have been neglected and abused underfoot.



Ends with:
The daunting truth is that bad ideas can only be defeated by better ideas.
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Until the Elite learn this they will continue to lose, they have gotten lazy and resorted to brutality to manage rather that looking for and using the best ideas, and we know where that goes.
 
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Sehr Gut!

To hell with her. Glad to see other parties are finally rejecting her non committal behavior and vague, meaningless promises.
 
kaerin said:
I just hope SPD reject Merkel too like FDP did, and there will be the fresh elections. And afterwards, a chance for non-Merkel coalition government would be great (without AfD) I am not sure if SPD+FDP+Greens combined would get majority after new elections, but I can hope.

Europe really had enough of Merkel. Germans will decide of course.
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By what current polls show (Yeah, polls, I know, but the German ones are usually pretty near to what then transpires), the results of new elections wouldn't differ much from those of September.

And thus SPD, FDP and Greens wouldn't make a majority. For that they'd have to take the commies on board as well but the FDP would rather die than agree to that.

The FDP didn't really reject Merkel as much as it got cold feet over having to take responsibility for governing.
 
ChezC3 said:
Sehr Gut!

To hell with her. Glad to see other parties are finally rejecting her non committal behavior and vague, meaningless promises.
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I certainly agree on her having been (and by the looks of it still being) one of the most uninspired and un-visionary leaders that Germany ever had.

Her "stability" in the power seat consisted primarily of her having occupied virtually any opposing position that others held and then selling them as her idea. And unfortunately the public bought it.

Much of what has been accomplished for the more disenfranchised during the recent government period has been down to SPD efforts, but the Social Democrats simply couldn't profit from their efforts, on account of there being no public acknowledgement of the same.

On the contrary, they came out weaker in elections after each time they joined with Merkel. Last time the FDP did that they even got kicked out of parliament altogether.

No wonder there's such reluctance for joining into another coalition with Merkel in both parties.

Trouble is that even now public opinion seems to favour yet another CDU-CSU/SPD stint, what with (post war) Germans not being at all acquainted with the opportunities that a minority government could present. Like, for instance, real parliamentary work with majorities having to be gathered case by case instead of just waving everything thru in the usual self-complacent manner, just because "they" can.

Plenty of countries in Europe working quite well on minority government.

Instead everyone is painting the spectre of Weimar on the wall, as if that had anything to do with the situation today.
 
The people at the top are brow beating those who will not conform "Sending this back to the people cant be allowed to happen....WHATEVER IT TAKES!" but not only are they wrong but that is exactly what is supposed to happen when they dont get the job done.....that's the remedy.....keep going back to the people for direction till the elite get the job done.

If there is no completion by Christmas then elections must be called, and no one should give an inch due to the attempted threat.
 
Imagining a Post-Merkel Germany
Jochen Bittner, New York Times

HAMBURG, Germany — Europe sighed in relief on Sunday night when the news broke that Germany’s Social Democratic Party had agreed to negotiate another coalition with Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats. Since the inconclusive national elections in September, it had been unclear how long the country with the largest economy in the European Union — and until now, the anchor of its political stability — would need to form a new government.
Hold your breath for a few more months. The relief is premature.
Whatever might come out of the negotiations between Ms. Merkel and Martin Schulz, the leader of the Social Democrats, in the weeks ahead, the government they form is doomed to be the weakest and most unstable Germany has had in decades. The center-left Social Democrats, for one, are in the middle of an existential crisis, and large factions within the party will continue to worry that another coalition will keep them from some much-needed soul-searching.
The second, and more important, driver of insecurity is the chancellor herself. If power is defined by the ability to make others do what they’d rather not, it is becoming clearer by the day that her power is fading.
Some Christian Democrats have become silently rebellious, while others publicly take a significantly tougher stance than the chancellor on issues like migration. A senior cabinet member, who wished not to be named, has told journalists that the race for Ms. Merkel’s successor within the ranks has already begun. (As long as the negotiations continue, the Christian Democrats can replace Ms. Merkel as their choice for chancellor at any time.) . . .
 
What happend here? Are they (SPD-CDU) getting close or it will collapse again?
 
they get closer

SPD has only a lot of problems to sell it to her members.
The Juso´s (youth organisation of SPD (Jungsoziale)) called everybody who does not want GroKo to get member of the SPD only for the voting if Koalition should be made and then quit again...

and we stil have no proper government...

greets
 
german hick said:
they get closer

SPD has only a lot of problems to sell it to her members.
The Juso´s (youth organisation of SPD (Jungsoziale)) called everybody who does not want GroKo to get member of the SPD only for the voting if Koalition should be made and then quit again...

and we stil have no proper government...

greets
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To add (explain) in more detail for those not too acquainted with conditions there, the SPD has imposed upon itself the obligation to put any coalition agreement reached to the vote of all of its members first, before being actually able to pass it and thus enter into said coalition.

The other side (CDU/CSU) has felt no such obligation wrt its own members.

This is different to the previous vote within the SPD that authorized coalition talks to be engaged upon, that one was just a vote by delegates. And where that one achieved a "pro" majority, it wasn't exactly a landslide win.

Discontent among all party members is expected to be considerably more pronounced and the outcome of any vote far from cut 'n dried.
 
seems the big coalition with CDU/CSU and SPD is comming - they already agreed on the minister jobs

CDU shall get ministry of defence, economy, health, sience and agriculture
SPD shall get ministry of foreign relations, finance, work, and the fields judiciary, family and enviroment
CSU shall get ministry of traffic digital developement and the ministry of the interior wich will be added homeland and building

worst for me:
Horst Seehofer (CSU) will become minister of the interior. A bavarian right wing moron. He is responsible for stuff like "cutoff for family reunion of refugees"....
 
german hick said:
seems the big coalition with CDU/CSU and SPD is comming - they already agreed on the minister jobs

CDU shall get ministry of defence, economy, health, sience and agriculture
SPD shall get ministry of foreign relations, finance, work, and the fields judiciary, family and enviroment
CSU shall get ministry of traffic digital developement and the ministry of the interior wich will be added homeland and building

worst for me:
Horst Seehofer (CSU) will become minister of the interior. A bavarian right wing moron. He is responsible for stuff like "cutoff for family reunion of refugees"....
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Fake news... we all saw the right wing real news announce the talks had failed and Germany was doomed!... DOOOMED I say! Only the AfD can save the Reich... err Deutchland.
 
PeteEU said:
Fake news... we all saw the right wing real news announce the talks had failed and Germany was doomed!... DOOOMED I say! Only the AfD can save the Reich... err Deutchland.
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Is it your claim that the Washington Post is right wing? Really?
 
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