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German courts continue legalizing antisemitism

Fishking

Fishking

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In the most recent codifying of antisemitism by the German courts, it now has ruled that it's OK for Kuwait Airways to ban Israeli citizens from flying.

Kuwait Airways 'within its rights' to ban Israeli - German court - BBC News

A German court has ruled that a Kuwaiti airline was within its rights to refuse to carry an Israeli citizen. The ruling angered Jewish groups and others, who argued that it condoned anti-Semitism. Kuwait Airways cancelled the passenger's ticket for a flight from Frankfurt to Bangkok. The Frankfurt court said the airline was respecting the laws of Kuwait, which does not recognize the state of Israel. It said it was unable to rule on Kuwaiti law, and that German law covered discrimination on the basis of only race, ethnicity or religion - not citizenship.
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No, they cannot rule on Kuwaiti law but they can rule on what happens in Germany as their airlines use their airports, which can and should be revoked until a change in policy. Of course, this isn't the first time German courts have done such things.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/13/german-court-rules-synagogue-torching-not-anti-sem/

A German regional court has ruled that three men who used Molotov cocktails in July 2014 to torch a synagogue were not influenced by anti-Semitism. A Wuppertal judge last Friday upheld a lower court’s 2015 ruling that German-Palestinians convicted of arson against the city’s synagogue did so merely to “criticize Israel” and “bring attention to the Gaza conflict.” Fire damage caused by 31-year-old Mohamad E., 26-year-old Ismail A. and 20-year-old Mohammad A. (full names withheld by German authorities) totaled almost $850.
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Because being a Jewish German is the same thing as being Israeli, not that it would make it any better even if we accepted that ridiculous premise.

Looks like the more some things change, the more they stay the same.
 
One may then take it that Kuwait Air's landing rights in France, Italy, Switzerland, UK and US should also be revoked?

Personally, I'd applaud such a move but I'd also applaud if less hypocrisy were transported in threads like these.

As such the statement "codifying of antisemitism by the German courts" clearly shows utter ignorance of the process of German law, and the statement of "they can rule on what happens in Germany as their airlines use their airports," is equally ignorant, seeing how international air travel agreements are not something in the range of this particular court.

What IS within its range is to rule on a passenger thus affected to be aptly compensated. Something it did.

As, just for the sake of general information, Kuwait Air also offered to have the passenger transported to his desired destination of Bangkok by a different airline and at Kuwait Air's expense.

Equally informative may be that Kuwait does not allow entry to holders of Israeli passport holders (the passenger in question was scheduled for a stop in Kuwait) and indeed will deny entry even to other travellers whose passports show the holder as having at any time travelled to Israel. An annoying issue for those of us travelling in the M.E., avoidable only by having two passports, certainly until Israel stopped stamping passports altogether.

The Emirates and Saudi incidentally pursue the same policy and it's good to see how all countries clamor to deny them landing rights. With Boeing and Airbus Industries even refusing to sell them planes :roll:

The synagogue incident having been covered in here at length already months ago, I won't bother with it.
 
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1) is not anti-semitism
2) Fully legal.
3) US airlines do the same thing on behest of their government and force non US airlines to do it as well.
4) much to do about nothing.
 
What happened with that Kuwaiti airlines thing is disgusting, but it seems the Germans were forced to do it because of laws in Kuwait. If anything there should be a boycott and sanctions on Kuwait rather than condemning the Germans.
 
Why most of the information they spread isn't as forthcoming as I would like it to be.

I do know the problems that starting to mount when it comes to some of the more anti Israeli movements in Germany.

Unfortunately, it could also lead to some rather disastrous problems later on. Then again, disastrous is pretty much the state that Germany is in at this current point so...

At least they are being consistent.
 
In terms of being the Devil's advocate, what are the terms of flying into Israel? Don't they also use a racial profiling policy? Shouldn't there be consistency in terms of a boycott or policy, or should a dual standard be in affect?

Kuwait airlines does their racial profiling, up front, and spares foreigners entry thereby sheltering them from an embarrassing shakedown at the airport. Israel may let them in, but certain passengers need to ready for awkward treatment in public.

The difference is sort of like not inviting someone to the party, because they will be harassed by other guests. On the other hand, you invite them to the party, but then allow the wolves to have their way with them. Which is being merciful? It all depends on the person. The middle east still has old grudges, protecting themselves and honoring the other, in different ways.
 
Chagos said:
One may then take it that Kuwait Air's landing rights in France, Italy, Switzerland, UK and US should also be revoked?

Personally, I'd applaud such a move but I'd also applaud if less hypocrisy were transported in threads like these.

As such the statement "codifying of antisemitism by the German courts" clearly shows utter ignorance of the process of German law, and the statement of "they can rule on what happens in Germany as their airlines use their airports," is equally ignorant, seeing how international air travel agreements are not something in the range of this particular court.

What IS within its range is to rule on a passenger thus affected to be aptly compensated. Something it did.

As, just for the sake of general information, Kuwait Air also offered to have the passenger transported to his desired destination of Bangkok by a different airline and at Kuwait Air's expense.

Equally informative may be that Kuwait does not allow entry to holders of Israeli passport holders (the passenger in question was scheduled for a stop in Kuwait) and indeed will deny entry even to other travellers whose passports show the holder as having at any time travelled to Israel. An annoying issue for those of us travelling in the M.E., avoidable only by having two passports, certainly until Israel stopped stamping passports altogether.

The Emirates and Saudi incidentally pursue the same policy and it's good to see how all countries clamor to deny them landing rights. With Boeing and Airbus Industries even refusing to sell them planes :roll:

The synagogue incident having been covered in here at length already months ago, I won't bother with it.
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Of course it's codifying antisemitism to be legalized as they are allowing it to happen in their country. Further, that they make a lame attempt at paying them off doesn't negate the discrimination. It would still be racist if I didn't serve black people at my restaurant but still gave them a voucher for the restaurant next door.
 
PeteEU said:
1) is not anti-semitism
2) Fully legal.
3) US airlines do the same thing on behest of their government and force non US airlines to do it as well.
4) much to do about nothing.
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1. Yes it is.
2. Obviously it's fully legal, hence the title that says "legalizing".
3. No they don't.
4. Found the antisemite.
 
PoS said:
What happened with that Kuwaiti airlines thing is disgusting, but it seems the Germans were forced to do it because of laws in Kuwait. If anything there should be a boycott and sanctions on Kuwait rather than condemning the Germans.
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It's the laws in Kuwait but not legal in Germany.
 
wellwisher said:
In terms of being the Devil's advocate, what are the terms of flying into Israel? Don't they also use a racial profiling policy? Shouldn't there be consistency in terms of a boycott or policy, or should a dual standard be in affect?

Kuwait airlines does their racial profiling, up front, and spares foreigners entry thereby sheltering them from an embarrassing shakedown at the airport. Israel may let them in, but certain passengers need to ready for awkward treatment in public.

The difference is sort of like not inviting someone to the party, because they will be harassed by other guests. On the other hand, you invite them to the party, but then allow the wolves to have their way with them. Which is being merciful? It all depends on the person. The middle east still has old grudges, protecting themselves and honoring the other, in different ways.
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Not allowing entry on the one hand versus an extended security check (and not 'harassment') on the other.
Motivation is hatred on the one hand versus security reasons on the other.
Nothing comparable really.
 
wellwisher said:
In terms of being the Devil's advocate, what are the terms of flying into Israel? Don't they also use a racial profiling policy? Shouldn't there be consistency in terms of a boycott or policy, or should a dual standard be in affect?

Kuwait airlines does their racial profiling, up front, and spares foreigners entry thereby sheltering them from an embarrassing shakedown at the airport. Israel may let them in, but certain passengers need to ready for awkward treatment in public.

The difference is sort of like not inviting someone to the party, because they will be harassed by other guests. On the other hand, you invite them to the party, but then allow the wolves to have their way with them. Which is being merciful? It all depends on the person. The middle east still has old grudges, protecting themselves and honoring the other, in different ways.
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Kuwaiti Airlines says it is not using a racial profiling profile but a nationality profile. If it also bans Arab Israeli citizens it can maintain that this is so - do we know if that is the case?
 
Fishking said:
1. Yes it is.
2. Obviously it's fully legal, hence the title that says "legalizing".
3. No they don't.
4. Found the antisemite.
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If Kuwait Airlines bans all citizens of Israel, regardless of ethnicity , it is not 'anti-semitism'. Sorry that I have to say this as I don't much like Kuwait where I resided for a while immediately after Gulf War I
 
Sweden said:
If Kuwait Airlines bans all citizens of Israel, regardless of ethnicity , it is not 'anti-semitism'. Sorry that I have to say this as I don't much like Kuwait where I resided for a while immediately after Gulf War I
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Sure, sure...it has nothing to do with them being Jews, right? If state in which Israel existed was composed entirely of Palestinians we'd still be having this conversation. Just like firebombing a synagogue in Germany isn't antisemitism. The flight of Jews out of Europe is totally organic and has nothing to do with this.
 
Fishking said:
Of course it's codifying antisemitism to be legalized as they are allowing it to happen in their country.
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That statement remains as silly as the whole rest of the premise.

At best one could make the accusation of legalizing ani-Israelism.

One also notices your convenient avoidance of the point I made that practically anyone granting Air Kuwait landing rights can be accused of the same.
Further, that they make a lame attempt at paying them off doesn't negate the discrimination. It would still be racist if I didn't serve black people at my restaurant but still gave them a voucher for the restaurant next door.
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Without going into lame analogies, a further point you appear to avoid just as neatly is that, what with the flight booked to Bangkok scheduled for a stopover in Kuwait, holders of Israeli passports are not even given entry into Kuwait.

To the best of my knowledge there are no longer any Jews of Kuwaiti citizenship, but I have met Jews in Kuwait that held other citizenship, just not Israelis.

Which punches holes into your premise of anti-semitism completely, seeing that Jews are not generally forbidden entry. I'd assume that to extend to use of the national airline as well, seeing how some of those Jews certainly used it.

IOW, even where I'm completely pee'd off at the whole affair as well, you appear not to know of what you speak. Not wrt Germany or any of its courts and not wrt Kuwait either.
 
wellwisher said:
In terms of being the Devil's advocate, what are the terms of flying into Israel? Don't they also use a racial profiling policy? Shouldn't there be consistency in terms of a boycott or policy, or should a dual standard be in affect?

Kuwait airlines does their racial profiling, up front, and spares foreigners entry thereby sheltering them from an embarrassing shakedown at the airport. Israel may let them in, but certain passengers need to ready for awkward treatment in public.

The difference is sort of like not inviting someone to the party, because they will be harassed by other guests. On the other hand, you invite them to the party, but then allow the wolves to have their way with them. Which is being merciful? It all depends on the person. The middle east still has old grudges, protecting themselves and honoring the other, in different ways.
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The devil is usually capable of drawing better analogies than this one. On the basis of which he'd probably thank you kindly to not go calling yourself his advocate.

Just saying ;)
 
Apocalypse said:
Not allowing entry on the one hand versus an extended security check (and not 'harassment') on the other.
Motivation is hatred on the one hand versus security reasons on the other.
Nothing comparable really.
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Indeed.

Political to the core.

Beyond which I've never felt harassed upon entry into Israel, the security measures being most understandable.
 
Fishking said:
Sure, sure...it has nothing to do with them being Jews, right? If state in which Israel existed was composed entirely of Palestinians we'd still be having this conversation. Just like firebombing a synagogue in Germany isn't antisemitism. The flight of Jews out of Europe is totally organic and has nothing to do with this.
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Or course, OF COURSE, it - that is Kuwaiti law - has everything to do with most Israelis being Jewish! But it is also about a legal decision in a German court. Judges follow laws and are not much concerted with right or wrong or justice. Especially not justice.
 
Sweden said:
Or course, OF COURSE, it - that is Kuwaiti law - has everything to do with most Israelis being Jewish! But it is also about a legal decision in a German court. Judges follow laws and are not much concerted with right or wrong or justice. Especially not justice.
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It's actually much more a case of an issue that needs address on the political level, having landed in a judge's court. The judge, obviously, being hardly qualified to overturn existing laws that the court had no hand in establishing.

Nevertheless, it looks like the German government has deemed fit to open an enquiry.

Germany opens Kuwait Airways inquiry for denying Israelis passage | Jewish News

And one would darn well hope so, too.
 
Fishking said:
In the most recent codifying of antisemitism by the German courts, it now has ruled that it's OK for Kuwait Airways to ban Israeli citizens from flying.

Kuwait Airways 'within its rights' to ban Israeli - German court - BBC News



No, they cannot rule on Kuwaiti law but they can rule on what happens in Germany as their airlines use their airports, which can and should be revoked until a change in policy. Of course, this isn't the first time German courts have done such things.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/13/german-court-rules-synagogue-torching-not-anti-sem/



Because being a Jewish German is the same thing as being Israeli, not that it would make it any better even if we accepted that ridiculous premise.

Looks like the more some things change, the more they stay the same.
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You should read the articles again. Kuwait Government has a ban on israel. If the airline were to fly the person home they would be fined. The court cannot order an airline to break the
law of their country. Nor should they. I would not be ethical for the courts to order a company to take a fine.

There is nothing wrong with the airline decision.

The last one strikes me as a bit wrong sided. Arson is arson though.
 
Fishking said:
1. Yes it is.
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No, it is banning people who come from or have travelled to/via a certain country.

2. Obviously it's fully legal, hence the title that says "legalizing".
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A private company can ban who ever they see fit. US companies do that all the time.

3. No they don't.
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So you are saying that your dear leader and his crony government has not attempted and put in a travel ban from multiple countries?

4. Found the antisemite.
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Found another one that cant distinguish between a Jew and the state of Israel....

They banned the guy because he is an Israeli citizen, not because he is a Jew.
 
Chagos said:
one wishes you'd make up your mind.
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As in, there are laws in Germany that are supposed to stop this but I guess it doesn't count if it's Jews. I'd think that Germany, of all countries, would want to put in a little bit more effort here.
 
Chagos said:
That statement remains as silly as the whole rest of the premise.

At best one could make the accusation of legalizing ani-Israelism.
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I see, I see...so if it was all Palestinians in Israel, and no Jews, they'd still have this rule. It totally has nothing to do with the fact that they are Jews. You're so right!
 
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