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France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy.. [W:8]

truthatallcost

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PARIS (AP) — France's domestic intelligence chief says nearly 18,000 people are on French watch lists for radicalism, a growing figure.

Laurent Nunez, head of the DGSI agency, is also warning that the Islamic State group's retreat in the Middle East "doesn't weaken the level of threat" or diminish the extremists' ability to inspire violent attacks in the West via propaganda.

Speaking on RTL radio Tuesday, he said "the wish of the Islamic State group and al-Qaida to launch an attack is intact," though the current risk to France comes from homegrown extremists instead of those who come from foreign war zones.

Nunez said that of the nearly 18,000 on watch lists, some 4,000 are under active surveillance. A number of people who have carried out attacks in France in recent years had previously been flagged for radicalism.
French intelligence has growing list of suspected radicals - NY Daily News

I wonder how much it costs to actively surveil 4,000 people at once, with a total 18,000 on Watch Lists? Aren't these people supposed to be the future scientists and brilliant geniuses of France? Maybe Macron can take the bombs from their hands and replace them with advanced science degrees. At least that would make a nice photo opportunity for him, that the French press would devour with a spoon.
 
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Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

I wonder how much it costs to actively surveil 4,000 people at once, with a total 18,000 on Watch Lists? Aren't these people supposed to be the future scientists and brilliant geniuses of France? Maybe Macron can take the bombs from their hands and replace them with advanced science degrees. At least that would make a nice photo opportunity for him, that the French press would devour with a spoon.

Who is keeping an eye on the gun nuts in the US who carry out the mass shootings with terrifying regularity?
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Who is keeping an eye on the gun nuts in the US who carry out the mass shootings with terrifying regularity?

Go start a thread about gun nuts in the area of the forum not labeled 'Europe' please. Thank you.
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

I wonder how much it costs to actively surveil 4,000 people at once, with a total 18,000 on Watch Lists? Aren't these people supposed to be the future scientists and brilliant geniuses of France? Maybe Macron can take the bombs from their hands and replace them with advanced science degrees. At least that would make a nice photo opportunity for him, that the French press would devour with a spoon.

Why are you so obsessed with Muslims?
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Do you have an opinion about the OP?

Yes, but you won't like it because it doesn't condemn all Muslims.
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Who is keeping an eye on the gun nuts in the US who carry out the mass shootings with terrifying regularity?

Moderator's Warning:
Stop this kind of attempted threadjacking. I suggest everyone else ignore this bait and stick to the topic
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

One of my customers once said, "Beware the wrath of a patient man!"
I think the French people represent a high level of personal freedom, and toleration.
I suspect that that toleration has boundaries.
How accepting are a freedom loving people of an ideology which challenges the freedoms they love?
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Why are you so obsessed with Muslims?

Truthatall cost is not 'obsessed' with Muslims. He, along with the French and British governments, simply acknowledges the fact a very serious and very large Islamic terror threat exist.

The numbers cited by the by the British authorities are over 500 active plots under close observation and over 30,000 persons of concern. This is out of a Muslim population of 2 million so no, it is not suggested that 'all Muslims' are potential terrorist' just a significant minority.
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Who is keeping an eye on the gun nuts in the US who carry out the mass shootings with terrifying regularity?

The surveillance list is a matter of law in France, where any individual who has the slightest behaviour that may represent a threat to the nation can be "followed" if they are on Police "Threat List".

France has the highest muslim percentage-of-population of any European country. The Bataclan-massacre (13 November 2016) where 130 people died from a terrorist machine-gunning of people watching the The Eagles of Death Metal group. The attack was conducted by ISIS extremists.

A very high number of muslims appear on a national "Watch List". Since that list was first established and since the Bataclan attack at least three other planned attacks have been thwarted. Unfortunately, the predominant religion on that list is muslim.

France is making a great effort in dealing with the problem, after a very late start. That is, Muslims have been a fundamental part of the work-force since France left Algeria bringing with them those Algerians who fought in the French Army. These people were accepted into France and given work-permits. They (and their children) are now French nationals.

But the rise of ISIS has succeeded in "turning" some of them to militancy. Now that ISIS is no longer functional, many of them have approached the French-forces in Syria towards returning. They have been notified that they will be sent before a court of law to decide whether or not they should go to prison.
 
I wonder how much it costs to actively surveil 4,000 people at once, with a total 18,000 on Watch Lists? Aren't these people supposed to be the future scientists and brilliant geniuses of France? Maybe Macron can take the bombs from their hands and replace them with advanced science degrees. At least that would make a nice photo opportunity for him, that the French press would devour with a spoon.

I be the FBI's watch list is a lot bigger than that...
 
I be the FBI's watch list is a lot bigger than that...

That's what I was thinking. Not just the FBI either, I bet lots of people are on overlapping lists.
Difference is, the French guy is upfront about it.
 
That's what I was thinking. Not just the FBI either, I bet lots of people are on overlapping lists.
Difference is, the French guy is upfront about it.

Well as of June 2016... the Terror watch list in the US had 2.5 million names, and the no fly list had 1.9 million names.. and that is just what they are admitting too.
 
Well as of June 2016... the Terror watch list in the US had 2.5 million names, and the no fly list had 1.9 million names.. and that is just what they are admitting too.

Sounds like multiculturalism is working great!
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Nunez said that of the nearly 18,000 on watch lists, some 4,000 are under active surveillance. A number of people who have carried out attacks in France in recent years had previously been flagged for radicalism.

I still think the French are not doing enough to prevent terrorism. Out of those 18,000 Islamists on watch lists, only 4,000 are under active surveillance by the state. Previous attacks were carried out by suspected radical Islamists who were not closely monitored by French authorities.
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

One of my customers once said, "Beware the wrath of a patient man!"
I think the French people represent a high level of personal freedom, and toleration.
I suspect that that toleration has boundaries.
How accepting are a freedom loving people of an ideology which challenges the freedoms they love?

According to statistics, people who become radicalized Islamic to the point join on terrorist attacks, are people who feel excluded from society, not monetarily but culturally and socially. Terrorist groups such as ISIS offer these young generation a sense of identity and belong that their society are not offering. And I think the less freedom and less tolerance results in more exclusion (social and cultural isolation), and it makes it worst.

It is the very similar cause of American boy's crisis who end up doing shootings around. They feel apathetic to society that makes them feel belong to nowhere, without identity and isolated somehow.

At the end we are social animals who seek our identity and belonging in a society, and when not found it make us literally sick. According to studies isolation has more chances to cause cardio vascular diseases and mental disease than smoking and drinking.
 
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Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

According to statistics, people who become radicalized Islamic to the point join on terrorist attacks, are people who feel excluded from society, not monetarily but culturally and socially. Terrorist groups such as ISIS offer these young generation a sense of identity and belong that their society are not offering. And I think the less freedom and less tolerance results in more exclusion (social and cultural isolation), and it makes it worst.

It is the very similar cause of American boy's crisis who end up doing shootings around. They feel apathetic to society that makes them feel belong to nowhere, without identity and isolated somehow.

At the end we are social animals who seek our identity and belonging in a society, and when not found it make us literally sick. According to studies isolation has more chances to cause cardio vascular diseases and mental disease than smoking and drinking.

Reasonable point!
I was thinking about the French and their open acceptance of freedom.
I think the political pendulum could swing quickly.
Islam is accepted as a religion, and many countries allow religious freedom.
Islam is much more than a religion, it is a complete political ideology,
that if followed in extreme, is vary contrary to western ideas of freedom.
Could France, for example treat Muslims the way that Saudi Arabia treats Christians?
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Reasonable point!
I was thinking about the French and their open acceptance of freedom.
I think the political pendulum could swing quickly.
Islam is accepted as a religion, and many countries allow religious freedom.
Islam is much more than a religion, it is a complete political ideology,
that if followed in extreme, is vary contrary to western ideas of freedom.
Could France, for example treat Muslims the way that Saudi Arabia treats Christians?

That's what you are reading because it sells newspaper (and TV news-time).

It is not actually true. There was a schism, which led to two main groups. The Shiites and the Sunni, of which a good approximation is that 85–90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10–15% are Shia.

ISIS was founded by a hothead Muslim preacher who had been incarcerated (by the American Army) with fellow Sunni soldiers. He managed to convince some of them to create the radical group called ISIS. Which is why, in fact, at first ISIS had some very well designed tactics that allowed them to conquer East Syria.

Why the east of Syria. Because this group could not remain in Iraq, which the American Army passed over to a majority Shiite government. So they left to eastern Syria and took over the Syrian oil-fields.

War is all about money!

As regards your comment in red above quoted:

I have a LOT of Muslim friends in France. France has the highest population of them of any country in Europe, most having come from Algeria. When France left Algeria it took with them the Muslim troops that had been fighting the insurgents.

Their population size is estimated at somewhat lower than 5 million. Why estimated? Because it is against French law for anyone including the state to collect information regarding one's religion. Religious belief is guarded as sacrosanct by the French Constitution, which is something they learned from the Nazi-occupation of France and the subsequent annihilation of much of the French Jewish population.

Which has a downside, however. Because French governments are not allowed to gather information regarding the Muslim-community, it had very little idea of what was going on with some hard-ball young Muslims who were intrigued by ISIS.

Out of a population of about 5 million Muslims, there are around 6000 would-be-whackos who profess a serious disdain for the French government and/or the French people. That's somewhere just less than 1% of the entire French population.

Does that put the question somewhat in perspective? I hope so.

Those who have left France to join ISIS and who come back are facing government indictments. They may go to jail. Of those, about a third are male, two/thirds being women and children. So, that's probably 3500 whackos who went off to join ISIS, of which only around 2000 remain in Syria - waiting to see what happens and trying to subsist.

Not many have dared to return, and some are seeking that the French government repatriate them because they have no money.

Those who had means to leave via Turkey and did get back into France are certainly keeping to themselves ...
 
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Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

That's what you are reading because it sells newspaper (and TV news-time).

It is not actually true. There was a schism, which led to two main groups. The Shiites and the Sunni, of which a good approximation is that 85–90% of the world's Muslims are Sunni and 10–15% are Shia.

ISIS was founded by a hothead Muslim preacher who had been incarcerated (by the American Army) with fellow Sunni soldiers. He managed to convince some of them to create the radical group called ISIS. Which is why, in fact, at first ISIS had some very well designed tactics that allowed them to conquer East Syria.

Why the east of Syria. Because this group could not remain in Iraq, which the American Army passed over to a majority Shiite government. So they left to eastern Syria and took over the Syrian oil-fields.

War is all about money!

As regards your comment in red above quoted:

I have a LOT of Muslim friends in France. France has the highest population of them of any country in Europe, most having come from Algeria. When France left Algeria it took with them the Muslim troops that had been fighting the insurgents.

Their population size is estimated at somewhat lower than 5 million. Why estimated? Because it is against French law for anyone including the state to collect information regarding one's religion. Religious belief is guarded as sacrosanct by the French Constitution, which is something they learned from the Nazi-occupation of France and the subsequent annihilation of much of the French Jewish population.

Which has a downside, however. Because French governments are not allowed to gather information regarding the Muslim-community, it had very little idea of what was going on with some hard-ball young Muslims who were intrigued by ISIS.

Out of a population of about 5 million Muslims, there are around 6000 would-be-whackos who profess a serious disdain for the French government and/or the French people. That's somewhere just less than 1% of the entire French population.

Does that put the question somewhat in perspective? I hope so.

Those who have left France to join ISIS and who come back are facing government indictments. They may go to jail. Of those, about a third are male, two/thirds being women and children. So, that's probably 3500 whackos who went off to join ISIS, of which only around 2000 remain in Syria - waiting to see what happens and trying to subsist.

Not many have dared to return, and some are seeking that the French government repatriate them because they have no money.

Those who had means to leave via Turkey and did get back into France are certainly keeping to themselves ...

I hope they can keep the small percentage of zealots in check!
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Americans have the French beat: we produce mass murderers that are white, use semi-auto, not automatic weapons, and our mass murderers are not associated with any so called 'terror groups,' they are just former Air Force & IRS folks ............... we are better than the French ..............
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

Truthatall cost is not 'obsessed' with Muslims. He, along with the French and British governments, simply acknowledges the fact a very serious and very large Islamic terror threat exist.

The numbers cited by the by the British authorities are over 500 active plots under close observation and over 30,000 persons of concern. This is out of a Muslim population of 2 million so no, it is not suggested that 'all Muslims' are potential terrorist' just a significant minority.

By your numbers, a *significant* minority constitutes 1.5% of the total Muslim population. And that's assuming that "persons of concern" = folks walking around with suicide vests. Mmm-kay....
 
Re: France Actively Surveiling 4,000 of its Citizens.. Oh boy..

By your numbers, a *significant* minority constitutes 1.5% of the total Muslim population. And that's assuming that "persons of concern" = folks walking around with suicide vests. Mmm-kay....

2.8 million Muslims (4.4% of total population) live in the UK according to Pew Research projections just released today even if a policy of zero immigration was implemented by 2050 9.7% of the UK population would be Muslim.

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-21.jpg

Muslim Population Growth in Europe | Pew Research Center
 
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