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UK- Asylum Seekers Raped Children in Newcastle

Funny how the OP never talks about the far more cases of child abuse and grooming done by non asylum seekers and non Muslims...
 
Serenity said:
I was pretty clear in my initial response as to my position. Can you clarify yours please?

Do you support a greater penalty (incarceration time) for a convicted rapist if they are an immigrant rather than if it was someone who holds citizenship? Is that what you are actually arguing?
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Absolutely, but along with other enhanced consequences, which might include deportation and/or barring them from citizenship. Not just for rape, but for violating any laws or rules during the probationary period.
 
HonestJoe said:
I wasn't challenging your wording, I was challenging to fundamental lack of understanding of reality that it demonstrated. You didn't write "multiculturalism" by mistake, you wrote it because you truly thought it was relevant here.
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Whenever I ask British members of the board to list the benefits of migration from the Muslim world to the UK, the invariable one word reply they muster is 'diversity'.
Diversity of what? They must be referring to diversity of culture.

Occasionally a poster will allude to some supposed economic boon that migrants from Muslim countries bring to the UK, but statistics don't support that assertion.

You didn't repeat the lie about accepting the rape of children in return for cheap labour by mistake, you really wanted to make that accusation.
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OK, here is your chance to answer the question that has caused so many before you such difficulty;

Given the downsides of migration from the Muslim world, i.e, grooming gangs, reliance on government benefits, racial division, housing shortages, & terrorism, please list all positive benefits that Muslim migration brings to the UK.

You didn't mention "Labour party officials" by mistake, you really wanted to spin a partisan political attack in to this for some reason.
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Who's to blame for the fact that English girls are being drugged and raped by groups of Muslim men in many parts of England? You certainly wouldn't suggest that blame be placed on anyone in the Muslim community, or on the fact that Muslim culture produces sexual harassment against underage girls if they are seen as 'impure' for their style of dress, or their background.

A code of silence has previously existed in the UK, whereby members of local government and law enforcement felt the need to keep the citenzry uninformed of the monsters in their midst. This code of silence was promulgated throughout government by the politically correct assholes of Labour.

If you really cared about the victims of this kind of crime (both British and foreign), there are constructive ways you can do something about it - for example, there are all sorts of charitable organisations set up to support them. This kind thread doesn't help anyone and if anything it can cause harm, feeding the misinformation and misdirection which leads to whole groups of often innocent people being tarred with the crimes of a minority and a whole load of actual criminals being ignored because they don't fit the stereotypes.
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Ah, you'd prefer that old code of silence I just mentioned. But those who you really wish to silence are the victims, in order to spare the public image of the Muslim community. A true Labour party enthusiast, you've proven my every accusation correct.
 
truthatallcost said:
Whenever I ask British members of the board to list the benefits ....................~.
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In other words you do not wish to address the challenges on every lie you told.

Twist and squirm as you might and exacerbate the already committed dishonesties by additional ones as you're doing, you're busted.
 
HowardBThiname said:
This really isn't a case of resisting multiculturalism. It's a case of insisting that all who immigrate to a country agree to abide by that nation's laws and codes above all else, including any religious tenets that might be in opposition to the laws and codes of the host nation.

People of all races and religions rape but some (sub)cultures actually use rape as a method of control. This is a cultural throwback to a time when rape was considered as just one of many ways to subvert an enemy.

The West, for the most part, has evolved beyond that disgusting idea, and the laws of western nations reflect that evolution. When non-westerners immigrate from nations where that ideal still holds sway, we can see a culture shock, which we've increasingly seeing.

The way western host countries can stop the infiltration of an undesirable subculture is to set stricter assimilation standards for immigrants so they know, in no unsure terms, that cultural norms that may have been tolerated in the nations from which they emigrated, will not be tolerated in the host nation.

Immigrants should undergo a probationary period during which any infractions of host laws will be punished on a greater scale than those of a native or an immigrant who has successfully completed probation with no violations.

Making excuses for this type of cultural misbehavior is akin to encouraging further rapes. Those who do it are typically closet misogynists.
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Immigrants do go through a "probationary period"...because if they commit a felony before they become citizens, they can be deported.

What's more, if you'll Google around, you'd find that immigrants - legal AND illegal - generally commit significantly LESS crime than native-born Americans. I can provide you references on demand - and my reference for the latter would certainly be from the strongly-conservative Cato Institute, the scholarly wing of the Heritage Foundation.

In other words, perhaps instead of taking the word of Fox News and Hannity and Limbaugh and Bannon about how terrible and violent immigrants are so often, you should look at the overall numbers and see if the right-wing media is factual and accurate...or if they're feeding you a line of BS. In other words, you should be every bit as cynical of right-wing media as you are of left-wing media.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Care to show us any examples of nations that did well as a result of resisting multiculturalism?
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By staying as a cohesive political unit? too many to count...
 
truthatallcost said:
Whenever I ask British members of the board to list the benefits of migration from the Muslim world to the UK, the invariable one word reply they muster is 'diversity'.
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I don't believe you. That's the problem with dishonesty in your posts. Anyway, your OP here was about asylum seekers, not migrants. Do you actually know the difference?

truthatallcost said:
Given the downsides of migration from the Muslim world, i.e, grooming gangs, reliance on government benefits, racial division, housing shortages, & terrorism, please list all positive benefits that Muslim migration brings to the UK.
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I'm not supporting migration of Muslims. I'm not specifically opposed to migration of Muslims as a general principle either. Many of the problems associated with them aren't exclusive to Muslims and most Muslims aren't responsible for. Immigration is a much wider and more complex issue deserving of more intelligent and honest discussion.

truthatallcost said:
Who's to blame for the fact that English girls are being drugged and raped by groups of Muslim men in many parts of England?
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The same as for any other crime with any other victim - the criminals who commit it.

truthatallcost said:
A code of silence has previously existed in the UK, whereby members of local government and law enforcement felt the need to keep the citenzry uninformed of the monsters in their midst. This code of silence was promulgated throughout government by the politically correct assholes of Labour.
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That has certainly been an issue, though far from a Labour one. One of the main causes of that was the legitimate fear that people like you would react to revelations of individual Muslim criminals by targeting hatred to all Muslims (and people you mistake for Muslims), which can and does lead to discrimination and violence. Silence was the wrong response to that but you can't avoid your share in the responsibility any more than Muslims can avoid their share in responsibility for the religious and cultural problems they bring.

truthatallcost said:
Ah, you'd prefer that old code of silence I just mentioned. But those who you really wish to silence are the victims, in order to spare the public image of the Muslim community. A true Labour party enthusiast, you've proven my every accusation correct.
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Well I'm not a member of any political party so that's an accusation you're wrong on from the start. I've helped bring cases to court of abuse victims, bringing attackers to justice to stop them creating more victims. You're sitting over there cheering them on because it supports your partisan political hatred. I feel sorry for you.
 
truthatallcost said:
Asylum seekers are using Facebook to find English children to drug and rape. Has this experiment in multiculturalism worked out well for England? I can't imagine that the common Brit feels that receiving cheap laborers in exchange for having their children drugged and raped was really a great deal to make. Maybe it's just Labour party officials who are content with that arrangement?
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Old news, very old.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Care to show us any examples of nations that did well as a result of resisting multiculturalism?
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Finland, Poland, Belgium (speaks liberally, doesn't follow thru), Portugal, Lichtenstein, Russia, most of the former Soviet Republics, Saudi Arabia (with exception of day laborers, servants and slaves), Bahrain, Oman, Sri Lanka, Mexico, Ecuador, Peru, Panama, Jamaica, Columbia, Nepal, Myanmar (where they are killing off muslims), there are plenty more.
 
truthatallcost said:
While many of the British posters on the board choose to split hairs over terminology, foreign gangs that traffic in sex slavery are preying on English children.

Simply put, I don't give a **** if my wording wasn't perfect. :peace
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You should care that most of those convicted were second generation Pakistanis, born in Britain. Meaning they weren't foreign gangs, and they had hooked up with long standing British gangs doing the same thing, dividing territories and revenue sharing.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The USA has it's own problem with child rapes and sex slavery.

It recently hit home with me when I was listening to a young lady from Virginia Beach talking on Tony Macrini's talk AM 790 morning show about funding a shelter for ex sex slaves. There are over 100,000 young sex slaves right here at home.

https://thebutterfly.house/human-trafficking-facts/

The wife and I have cut a $100.00 check for the latest fundraiser. It's not much, but every little bit helps.
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That is likely a gross underestimate, however the pimp sex worker relationship can be very complex. At a trial of an accused pimp here in NYC about a year ago, the working girls came to testify in his behalf. They stated he managed their money and earning, purchasing houses for them and their children in their own names, providing a group healthcare policy for them and their children, making sure they paid their appropriate taxes, investing their money in money management funds and equities, earning his living from a percentage of the gain on investments, and not from their earnings. He was acquitted in a non-jury trial, not meeting the legal definitions of a procurer and promoter of prostitution. He did not arrange their work, but taught them how to do their own scheduling, advertising via a cooperative for lower rates, and so on. These women were earning a minimum of $600 per hour, as much as $4,000 an hour. Most of them had sufficient assets for early retirement, but found the work to be mostly easy money and remained working on limited schedules. Three of these women were working their way through law school. It is unlikely they will earn as much practicing law.

When the investigation leading to this guy's arrest was initially underway, seizure of documents showed he had a waiting list of close to a 1k potential "clients" in 6 major cities, including Washington DC, Charleston SC, NYC, and Boston

Then there was Sophie Kohn, who got her start in 1891 at age 13 when she arrived here from Bavaria, turning tricks for 25¢ in the cribs of the lower east side in Manhattan, when many of her competitors charged a dime. When she died she was the wealthiest woman in the US, and had been running the showgirls in Las Vegas since Ben Seigal made his first moves in that city. She raised 8 children who each became a legitimate college educated professional or business person, from medicine and law, to producing Broadway shows and movies, building real estate empire.

Things aren't always what they seem, sometimes better, mostly worse.

Without the John's, these women wouldn't be working. Thank you Elliot Spitzer, and your black socks.
 
PeteEU said:
Funny how the OP never talks about the far more cases of child abuse and grooming done by non asylum seekers and non Muslims...
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About 2,000 children went missing in the US today, like every other day. Haven't seen you speaking about that problem either.

The self righteous are always more right.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Immigrants do go through a "probationary period"...because if they commit a felony before they become citizens, they can be deported.

What's more, if you'll Google around, you'd find that immigrants - legal AND illegal - generally commit significantly LESS crime than native-born Americans. I can provide you references on demand - and my reference for the latter would certainly be from the strongly-conservative Cato Institute, the scholarly wing of the Heritage Foundation.

In other words, perhaps instead of taking the word of Fox News and Hannity and Limbaugh and Bannon about how terrible and violent immigrants are so often, you should look at the overall numbers and see if the right-wing media is factual and accurate...or if they're feeding you a line of BS. In other words, you should be every bit as cynical of right-wing media as you are of left-wing media.
Click to expand...

Unnaturalized immigrants can be deported at any time if they commit crimes. And naturalization can be withdrawn. Cynicism of all media is healthier. Even photographs can lie.
 
HonestJoe said:
I don't believe you. That's the problem with dishonesty in your posts.
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Lol, you couldn't even name one solitary benefit of migration from Muslim areas! My 'dishonesty'? Lol, maybe you should consider your own inability to answer the question as it was posed.

If I'd asked you to name what you like about the shoes you're wearing, I'd expect you to at least be able to give me some reply. Yet when it comes to the topic at hand, you didn't list anything positive about migration of Muslims to the UK.


Anyway, your OP here was about asylum seekers, not migrants. Do you actually know the difference?
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More anal-retentiveness. My OP contained a news article about asylum seekers, but went on to address the problems of grooming gangs, which are not limited to asylum seekers. The only common thread to these gangs seems to be that the men who run them are from Muslim backgrounds.

I'm not supporting migration of Muslims. I'm not specifically opposed to migration of Muslims as a general principle either. Many of the problems associated with them aren't exclusive to Muslims and most Muslims aren't responsible for. Immigration is a much wider and more complex issue deserving of more intelligent and honest discussion.
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You can't list any benefits, thank you. I'd say you are the 8th or 9th British poster here who while defending Muslim migration to the UK, also couldn't really formulate a reason why, other than 'diversity is real good n stuff'.

The same as for any other crime with any other victim - the criminals who commit it.
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While I agree that individual responsibility needs to be stressed in these crimes, I'm curious as to why the Islamic communities of the UK aren't doing more to educate people in their neighborhoods about these gangs? I've heard of Sharia Patrols that roamed streets looking for people to shame. Why don't these Sharia Patrols shame men who are preying on children in their midsts? They don't care? Or maybe they participate behind closed doors?

That has certainly been an issue, though far from a Labour one. One of the main causes of that was the legitimate fear that people like you would react to revelations of individual Muslim criminals by targeting hatred to all Muslims (and people you mistake for Muslims), which can and does lead to discrimination and violence. Silence was the wrong response to that but you can't avoid your share in the responsibility any more than Muslims can avoid their share in responsibility for the religious and cultural problems they bring.
Click to expand...

You sounded earlier like you'd be quite content going back to the old method of ignoring victims' pleas for help in order to keep people from asking just why in the hell are immigrants to the UK raping native children to begin with.

This is what bothers me; from reading about history, Brits of the past we're never this cowardly towards a foe. Especially a foe who sought to rape their children for Christ's sake.

Well I'm not a member of any political party so that's an accusation you're wrong on from the start. I've helped bring cases to court of abuse victims, bringing attackers to justice to stop them creating more victims. You're sitting over there cheering them on because it supports your partisan political hatred. I feel sorry for you.
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A familiar and stupid insult. I've heard this rubbish now from at least a dozen posters, accusing me of wanting these 3rd world idiots to commit their crimes. Well let me tell you Joe, if it were up to me, these men would be punished in such a way that would leave them with a zero sperm count. And that goes for all sexual predators regardless of race or religion. In fact, I'd probably be banned if I said what I really want to happen to them.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Immigrants do go through a "probationary period"...because if they commit a felony before they become citizens, they can be deported.

What's more, if you'll Google around, you'd find that immigrants - legal AND illegal - generally commit significantly LESS crime than native-born Americans. I can provide you references on demand - and my reference for the latter would certainly be from the strongly-conservative Cato Institute, the scholarly wing of the Heritage Foundation.
Click to expand...

None of that matters if we're talking about making excuses for (sub)cultural ideas that run counter to our laws.

Those ideals, the ones that are especially abhorrent, such as subjugation of women, or intolerance of homosexuals must be nipped in the bud early on. There must be no excuses and the behavior must be labeled and denounced.

We're not so so much seeing a cultural rape problem in the US, but we are seeing a problem in the US in the form of female genital mutilation (FGM). A handful of Muslim doctors have been arrested and charged but not nearly enough to stop the problem.

That's the best example of a cultural issue that has to be stopped in the US today. It's estimated that literally 500,000 females have either already undergone the surgical procedure, or are at risk of having the surgery.

Arresting and charging a few doctors hasn't stopped the risk or the practice.

Now, the doctors that have been arrested have been here longer than a probationary period and are being charged as any other US doctor charged with surgical negligence.

But, how do you stop this practice that is mutilating the genitals of little girls so they will not experience sexual gratification as adults?

These types of cultural atrocities must be dealt with. We ignored it and tiptoed around it so we didn't step on any toes, and it got worse. We hoped it would not happen -- but it did -- and is.

In other words, perhaps instead of taking the word of Fox News and Hannity and Limbaugh and Bannon about how terrible and violent immigrants are so often, you should look at the overall numbers and see if the right-wing media is factual and accurate...or if they're feeding you a line of BS. In other words, you should be every bit as cynical of right-wing media as you are of left-wing media.
Click to expand...

I don't have cable TV, so I don't get any of those shows, nor would I watch them if I did. You make a mistake thinking my perspective comes from a far right wing source. It comes from logic. We are responsible for protecting the weaker within our midst, the women, the children, the homosexuals. Not all Muslims take part, or even defend the actions of the subculture that allows the domination and subordination of these groups, but far too high a percentage agree, at least in part, with the subculture.

Tiptoeing only worsens the situation. We need to come out and strongly denounce any ideas that it's okay to treat others like second-class citizens, and if, during an immigrant's probationary period, he or she violates our rules, they must be made an example of to send a message to others that they have to leave those damaging cultural ideas behind when they come to the West.
 
OldFatGuy said:
About 2,000 children went missing in the US today, like every other day. Haven't seen you speaking about that problem either.

The self righteous are always more right.
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Nope, but I also dont go around blaming a minority constantly for some of those disappearances..
 
truthatallcost said:
Lol, you couldn't even name one solitary benefit of migration from Muslim areas!
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Again, because I'm not promoting migration from Muslim areas. Why won't you tell us when you stopped beating your wife?

truthatallcost said:
My OP contained a news article about asylum seekers, but went on to address the problems of grooming gangs, which are not limited to asylum seekers. The only common thread to these gangs seems to be that the men who run them are from Muslim backgrounds.
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The vast majority of child abuse in this country isn't related to these "gangs" though and the vast majority of Muslims in the UK aren't involved in it or any other crime. If you actually want to deal with the real problems, you need to have a much more detailed and accurate understanding of them that you do.

truthatallcost said:
I'm curious as to why the Islamic communities of the UK aren't doing more to educate people in their neighborhoods about these gangs? I've heard of Sharia Patrols that roamed streets looking for people to shame. Why don't these Sharia Patrols shame men who are preying on children in their midsts? They don't care? Or maybe they participate behind closed doors?
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Where are you getting your information about Muslim communities in the UK? Have you ever spoken to any Muslims (not on forums, actually spoken)? Have you ever lived and worked with any Muslims? Or are you relying exclusively on selected extracts from tabloid news reports?

truthatallcost said:
You sounded earlier like you'd be quite content going back to the old method of ignoring victims' pleas for help in order to keep people from asking just why in the hell are immigrants to the UK raping native children to begin with.
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You sound like you've already decided my opinion and aren't actually reading what I'm writing.

truthatallcost said:
Especially a foe who sought to rape their children for Christ's sake.
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There is no foe seeking to rape our children. There are individuals, all over the world, who attack, abuse and rape. Once you start labelling vast groups of people - Muslims, Arabs, foreigners or indeed whites, men, Christians ;) - as "the enemy", you've already lost.

truthatallcost said:
A familiar and stupid insult.
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That was intentional; it was what you accused the British of doing!

truthatallcost said:
In fact, I'd probably be banned if I said what I really want to happen to them.
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Just proven criminals or all Muslims? Your statements aren't very clear about the difference. :(
 
PeteEU said:
Nope, but I also dont go around blaming a minority constantly for some of those disappearances..
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I do, those damn Canadians!

The greatest threat to the sanctity of life for muslims, is other muslims. Yesterday Saudi Arabian military forces struck in Yemen. It is expected that tomorrow, the Saudis will declare war on Lebanon. Assad of Syria still believes Lebanon belongs to Syria. The Iranians are trying to prove him wrong. Aren't they supposed to be allies? Israel is now an ally of Saudi Arabia, and has been since 2012. Oh, it so confusing.

More than 20 years ago, my favorite Lebanese restaurant on Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, was burnt down by some wacky immigrant Pakistani muslims from NJ who claimed the Lebanese were not real muslims. They placed flatware on the restaurant tables. That was the true testimony of two of the perps who were caught, convicted of arson and sent to prison.
 
HowardBThiname said:
None of that matters if we're talking about making excuses for (sub)cultural ideas that run counter to our laws.

Those ideals, the ones that are especially abhorrent, such as subjugation of women, or intolerance of homosexuals must be nipped in the bud early on. There must be no excuses and the behavior must be labeled and denounced.

We're not so so much seeing a cultural rape problem in the US, but we are seeing a problem in the US in the form of female genital mutilation (FGM). A handful of Muslim doctors have been arrested and charged but not nearly enough to stop the problem.

That's the best example of a cultural issue that has to be stopped in the US today. It's estimated that literally 500,000 females have either already undergone the surgical procedure, or are at risk of having the surgery.

Arresting and charging a few doctors hasn't stopped the risk or the practice.

Now, the doctors that have been arrested have been here longer than a probationary period and are being charged as any other US doctor charged with surgical negligence.

But, how do you stop this practice that is mutilating the genitals of little girls so they will not experience sexual gratification as adults?

These types of cultural atrocities must be dealt with. We ignored it and tiptoed around it so we didn't step on any toes, and it got worse. We hoped it would not happen -- but it did -- and is.



I don't have cable TV, so I don't get any of those shows, nor would I watch them if I did. You make a mistake thinking my perspective comes from a far right wing source. It comes from logic. We are responsible for protecting the weaker within our midst, the women, the children, the homosexuals. Not all Muslims take part, or even defend the actions of the subculture that allows the domination and subordination of these groups, but far too high a percentage agree, at least in part, with the subculture.

Tiptoeing only worsens the situation. We need to come out and strongly denounce any ideas that it's okay to treat others like second-class citizens, and if, during an immigrant's probationary period, he or she violates our rules, they must be made an example of to send a message to others that they have to leave those damaging cultural ideas behind when they come to the West.
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A half million American women have gone through female genital mutilation? References, please...'cause it sure looks like you bought a first-class ticket on the right-wing crazy train.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Finland, Poland, Belgium (speaks liberally, doesn't follow thru), Portugal, Lichtenstein, Russia, most of the former Soviet Republics, Saudi Arabia (with exception of day laborers, servants and slaves), Bahrain, Oman, Sri Lanka, Mexico, Ecuador, Peru, Panama, Jamaica, Columbia, Nepal, Myanmar (where they are killing off muslims), there are plenty more.
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Really? No offense, OFG, but perhaps you should learn a little more about those nations. I mean, really - Myanmar? You're claiming Myanmar is doing well? Oh, wait - it seems you think they're doing well by killing off Muslims. It's becoming fairly obvious where your social and political preferences lie.

FYI, Finland is fairly homogeneous due to its location, but its policies towards minorities are fairly liberal - there's little actual rejection of multiculturalism. I've got a Filipino nephew who has spent quite some time in the Denmark/Netherlands/Belgium area, and he loves it there - he's faced very little racism there. Portugal is quite welcoming and multiethnic when it comes to both minorities and with religions. I could go on, but...no offense, guy, but it's apparent that you're going with what you THINK you know rather than the reality of life in those nations.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
By staying as a cohesive political unit? too many to count...
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Feel free to make even a partial list...and be prepared to defend your claim on each nation. Remember, we're talking about nations that actively resist multiculturalism. Outside certain countries in the Middle East, not many do. I'll be waiting right here.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
A half million American women have gone through female genital mutilation? References, please...'cause it sure looks like you bought a first-class ticket on the right-wing crazy train.
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Read exactly what I wrote again -- carefully -- and then read this:

According to Equality Now, up to 513,000 women and girls in the United States are at risk of FGM or have undergone the practice.
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How common is female genital mutilation in the US? | ABC10.com

Or, if you're more the pictorial type, check out CNN's graph:
tt.jpg
The alarming rise of female genital mutilation in America - CNN

And then make your excuses as to why that doesn't concern you -- why that specific form of (sub)culturalism isn't harmful.
 
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