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Airbus Corruption Scandal May Lead Straight to the Top

CletusWilbury

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Lotsa bribing going around

Airbus Corruption Scandal May Lead Straight to the Top Der Spiegel, Oct 9, 2017


...
At issue are potential multibillion-euro fines and multibillion-euro losses. Indeed, the very survival of Airbus, with its 134,000 employees and its annual turnover of 67 billion euros ($78.6 billion), could be at stake.
...
...similar to the earthquake of corruption that rocked the Munich-based industrial (Siemens) giant in 2006, and continued for years afterward.
...
The parallels to the Siemens scandal are difficult to ignore. Both companies do business around the world, including in countries thought to be particularly corrupt, and both did business with fly-by-night companies and employed slippery consultants who received millions of dollars to set up business deals, likely by way of bribing politicians and officials. Both corporations likewise developed a company culture of acceptance for the practice, an understanding that things had always been done that way, that everyone else does it too, and that it is, in fact, the only way such a business can be run.
...
EADS International, the sales division in Paris, whose name later changed to SMO, dealt with such customers. It was the "Bull**** Castle" that Enders talks about today. Most of those working there were the product of the French defense company Matra, but two Germans also belonged to the team ...
...
Furthermore, it has been alleged that Vector wasn't the first dubious company charged with producing offset deals. In early 2004, a company for the purpose, called Omesco, was established in Cyprus.
... The idea for this Cyprus-based company came from the "Bull**** Castle" in Paris.
...
 
Not much will happen.

And yes a lot of bribing has and is going on.. it is standard operation procedure in big business. Boeing for example, has and are doing it constantly.
 
Not much will happen.

And yes a lot of bribing has and is going on.. it is standard operation procedure in big business. Boeing for example, has and are doing it constantly.

No. It is not "standard operating procedure in big business". That is what Europeans like to say at this point, but it is wrong. It is one of the major differences between business cultures in Europe and the USA. That is not to say that there is no corruption in American boardrooms. But the difference between US companies and the especially the probability of courts going for blood is immeasurable. This has been so since the 1970s in respect to cross boarder bribery and corruption and since the 1980s regarding markets and finance.

Nota bene: this does not mean that there are no perpetrators in US companies. The difference is that Americans tend to have wanted high level crime and corruption punished instead of making excuses like "it is standard operation procedure".
 
Not much will happen.

And yes a lot of bribing has and is going on.. it is standard operation procedure in big business. Boeing for example, has and are doing it constantly.

Evidence regarding Boeing?
 
OK. Thanks. 2004 and purely domestic.

Thanks again. Had to laugh though. This one puts the "petty" in petty corruption.

No worries. Yup, this is all I could really find from the good ol' university of Google. Of course, this is the times they were caught... ;)
 
... It is one of the major differences between business cultures in Europe and the USA. ...

Some Canadian was complaining about our lying culture in US politics. I was trying to relate it to cheating in our schools.

I'm not of the business culture, so I don't know of any such difference.

I am aware of laws passed to fight US contractors making such international bribes, when was that?
 
Not much will happen.

And yes a lot of bribing has and is going on.. it is standard operation procedure in big business. Boeing for example, has and are doing it constantly.

Business = corruption, corruption = business
 
No. It is not "standard operating procedure in big business". That is what Europeans like to say at this point, but it is wrong. It is one of the major differences between business cultures in Europe and the USA. That is not to say that there is no corruption in American boardrooms. But the difference between US companies and the especially the probability of courts going for blood is immeasurable. This has been so since the 1970s in respect to cross boarder bribery and corruption and since the 1980s regarding markets and finance.

Nota bene: this does not mean that there are no perpetrators in US companies. The difference is that Americans tend to have wanted high level crime and corruption punished instead of making excuses like "it is standard operation procedure".

Holy crap you are naive. Do European companies bribe? Yes.. because they have to get an even playing field against American companies who also bribe.

And since when are economic crimes and corruption punished in the US?
 
Holy crap you are naive. Do European companies bribe? Yes.. because they have to get an even playing field against American companies who also bribe.

And since when are economic crimes and corruption punished in the US?
Where I really don't find this "well, look at what the others are doing" line particularly helpful, it'll automatically surface anyway when someone brings up partisan crap like the poster you're responding to does.

This constant "Europe bad, US much better" mantra makes one wonder why someone constantly voicing this gripe didn't stay home in the first place.

That Boeing (to address the claim of US courts pursuing such issues with more vigour than Europe does) bought itself out of further prosecution on various charges in 2005, by settling with the court and paying $ 500 million (wouldn't call that petty), doesn't make the US system any better.

But it doesn't make the European system any better either.

Nevertheless, it underlines your point.

The demand that the Airbus-Bombardier deal should be stopped by force on account of Airbus's bribery shenanigans is as absurd as demanding that the Boeing takeover of McDonnell be rewound on account of non US investors having been prevented from bidding on the latter at the time.

Nobody in business and remotely sane demanded that, but then we're talking of business here and not of pipe dreams from lay-people.

Let Airbus face the music, providing a suitable band can be found, and we'll probably see that a deal can be made. In that sense they'd probably be better off in the US, not because there's greater leniency there (there isn't at all) but because deals with the justice system are such an everyday occurrence that, even where expensive, one can get the whole crap pile off the table faster.
 
Where I really don't find this "well, look at what the others are doing" line particularly helpful, it'll automatically surface anyway when someone brings up partisan crap like the poster you're responding to does.

This constant "Europe bad, US much better" mantra makes one wonder why someone constantly voicing this gripe didn't stay home in the first place.

That Boeing (to address the claim of US courts pursuing such issues with more vigour than Europe does) bought itself out of further prosecution on various charges in 2005, by settling with the court and paying $ 500 million (wouldn't call that petty), doesn't make the US system any better.

But it doesn't make the European system any better either.

Nevertheless, it underlines your point.

The demand that the Airbus-Bombardier deal should be stopped by force on account of Airbus's bribery shenanigans is as absurd as demanding that the Boeing takeover of McDonnell be rewound on account of non US investors having been prevented from bidding on the latter at the time.

Nobody in business and remotely sane demanded that, but then we're talking of business here and not of pipe dreams from lay-people.

Let Airbus face the music, providing a suitable band can be found, and we'll probably see that a deal can be made. In that sense they'd probably be better off in the US, not because there's greater leniency there (there isn't at all) but because deals with the justice system are such an everyday occurrence that, even where expensive, one can get the whole crap pile off the table faster.

To be brutally honest? Airbus should only face the music, as soon as its main competitor does the same. Problem is, this has gone political as hell, so there is no real legal solution that wont be heavily influenced by politics.

I am against corruption and bribery as a principle, but I am also pragmatic when we clearly can see political interference across the channel to protect Boeing.. and this has been going long before Airbus was founded. That is part of the problem. US protectionism almost killed off any competition in aerospace and it was only because governments in Europe got together to create Airbus of what was left of European aerospace, that we have more than one plane maker at all. Airbus is everything I hate about government business... massive subsidies to start up and protect, but when you are competing against Boeing and its massive subsidies from the US government.. then well..

So has Airbus played dirty? Of course they have... because everyone else is playing dirty. As long as that is happening, I frankly can excuse most corruption aspects in Airbus. If we want to really go after bribery and corruption, then we cant play favourites and have to play hardball. There is certainly no political will for that :)
 
Holy crap you are naive. Do European companies bribe? Yes.. because they have to get an even playing field against American companies who also bribe.

And since when are economic crimes and corruption punished in the US?

You seem unfamiliar with the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

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You seem unfamiliar with the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

[h=3]The 2016 FCPA Enforcement Index - The FCPA Blog - The FCPA Blog[/h]www.fcpablog.com/blog/2017/1/3/the-2016-fcpa-enforcement-index.html



Jan 3, 2017 - Last year 27 companies paid about $2.48 billion to resolve FCPA cases. It was the biggest enforcement year in FCPA history. Both the number ...




[h=3]Famous FCPA Cases | Foreign Bribery Cases[/h]https://whitecollarattorney.net › FCPA Attorney



Visit the following page to learn about FCPA famous cases. More information can also be found on the page pertaining to FCPA representation.




Oh I am familiar with it... it is mostly a PR law to make US politicians feel superior. Since they are one of the most corrupt parts of US foreign trade, then..
 
Oh I am familiar with it... it is mostly a PR law to make US politicians feel superior. Since they are one of the most corrupt parts of US foreign trade, then..

That's quite an uninformed reply. Possibly propaganda . . .
 
Not much will happen.

And yes a lot of bribing has and is going on.. it is standard operation procedure in big business. Boeing for example, has and are doing it constantly.

So two wrongs make a right again? No wonder you love Windows so much...
 
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