• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should Spain Forcefully Supress the Catalan Independence Referendum?

Chagos said:
Every attempt to regard the "woes" of the Catalan independentistas with rationality, leads to the realisation that they are totally devoid of it.

It is that which makes sane dialogue virtually impossible, arguing reason with madmen and -women would be madness of itself.
Click to expand...

Given that is your attitude to British wishes to leave the EU, that you know best and anything said that disagrees with you is just never possibly right, I think it is you who cannot see both sides of an argument.
 
Tim the plumber said:
Given that is your attitude to British wishes to leave the EU, that you know best and anything said that disagrees with you is just never possibly right, I think it is you who cannot see both sides of an argument.
Click to expand...
Equating Catalonia's desires for segregation with the UK's desire to leave the EU is not really helpful.

Scotland wishing to leave the UK (or not) would be a better analogy.

As to seeing both sides of an argument, that doesn't necessarily equate to finding both sides equally rational, let alone equally intelligent.

You sound confused, did you not get over the change of the clock yet?
 
Chagos said:
Equating Catalonia's desires for segregation with the UK's desire to leave the EU is not really helpful.

Scotland wishing to leave the UK (or not) would be a better analogy.

As to seeing both sides of an argument, that doesn't necessarily equate to finding both sides equally rational, let alone equally intelligent.

You sound confused, did you not get over the change of the clock yet?
Click to expand...

Or maybe Cornwall wanting to leave England.. or Kent.
 
Chagos said:
Well, if I were Cornwall I'd probably want to leave Kent as well.:lol:
Click to expand...

You made me look it up!!! bastard, and I am right.. Cornwall is a county, just like Kent!, so my claim is correct! :lol:
 
Chagos said:
Equating Catalonia's desires for segregation with the UK's desire to leave the EU is not really helpful.

Scotland wishing to leave the UK (or not) would be a better analogy.

As to seeing both sides of an argument, that doesn't necessarily equate to finding both sides equally rational, let alone equally intelligent.

You sound confused, did you not get over the change of the clock yet?
Click to expand...

So would you oppose the opportunity Scotland had to make its' choice like you oppose the Catalan people having the opportunity?
 
Tim the plumber said:
So would you oppose the opportunity Scotland had to make its' choice like you oppose the Catalan people having the opportunity?
Click to expand...
Seeing how London gave its okay, of course not.

But you seem confused still. Scotland (like Wales) is a country, Catalonia isn't.
 
Chagos said:
Seeing how London gave its okay, of course not.

But you seem confused still. Scotland (like Wales) is a country, Catalonia isn't.
Click to expand...

If London had not wanted to have such a vote, which was the case, would you have considered it OK for the Scots to have not been allowed to vote about it?
 
Tim the plumber said:
If London had not wanted to have such a vote, which was the case, would you have considered it OK for the Scots to have not been allowed to vote about it?
Click to expand...
I believe what you're asking is whether I'd have been okay with London not allowing a Scottish referendum.

That poses the question of what legal consequences any referendum in the UK would have. Answer being none, seeing how results are not binding in any which way. Not for Westminster overall, not for Holyrood.

So in the context of "why even bother", yes, I'd have been okay with a Scottish referendum not being allowed.

Pretty academic though, don't you think? Seeing how Westminster signalled to abide by results of a referendum it agreed to, whatever the result would be. Which was (and would be) the whole purpose of allowing a referendum to be held.

You can't compare any of this to Spain whose constitution makes no provisions for any referendum at all. Making any referendum held by whoever chooses to hold it unconstitutional and thus illegal.

P.S. I don't know where you get the notion from that London opposed the Scottish referendum
"If London had not wanted to have such a vote, which was the case"
Click to expand...
seeing how it was agreed between the Scottish and the UK government to hold it.
 
Last edited:
Chagos said:
I believe what you're asking is whether I'd have been okay with London not allowing a Scottish referendum.

That poses the question of what legal consequences any referendum in the UK would have. Answer being none, seeing how results are not binding in any which way. Not for Westminster overall, not for Holyrood.

So in the context of "why even bother", yes, I'd have been okay with a Scottish referendum not being allowed.

Pretty academic though, don't you think? Seeing how Westminster signalled to abide by results of a referendum it agreed to, whatever the result would be. Which was (and would be) the whole purpose of allowing a referendum to be held.

You can't compare any of this to Spain whose constitution makes no provisions for any referendum at all. Making any referendum held by whoever chooses to hold it unconstitutional and thus illegal.

P.S. I don't know where you get the notion from that London opposed the Scottish referendum seeing how it was agreed between the Scottish and the UK government to hold it.
Click to expand...

You really don't get this democracy thing do you?

The will of the people is soverign.

That is directed via a complex system of governance but the governance has to be seen to be and be subject to the will of the people.

Hiding behind the idea that law is above the will of the people is why Brexit has happened.
 
How can the will of the people be sovereign in a monarchy? The Queen is the sovereign.

By your logic we wouldn't need general elections anymore, because the people's will has spoken and it would be anti-democratic to consult it again.
 
Sven Karma said:
How can the will of the people be sovereign in a monarchy? The Queen is the sovereign.

By your logic we wouldn't need general elections anymore, because the people's will has spoken and it would be anti-democratic to consult it again.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Saves me having to address that nonsense.
 
PeteEU said:
Technically the 1641 was not a Republic..it was a vassal at best.

Sendt fra min SM-N9005 med Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Somehow that does not surprise me. From my time in Catalunya, Macia's name was familiar, but the 1641 fellow's not.

So, 4 days a Catalan Republic. The blip in history that is the 'First Portuguese Republic' lasted 16 years ffs
 
Just what the world needs:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/catalan-council-republic-international-support_322584_102.html

The Council for the Republic, the body promoted by president in exile Carles Puigdemont and fired minister Toni Comín from Belgium, is now looking for international support. As such, it's launched versions of its website translated into five languages other than the original Catalan: Spanish, French, English, German and Italian (users can change language at the bottom left of the page). They've also announced that they'll soon add options for Occitan and Basque.

The Council currently has 26,000 members of the public registered, who have paid a minimum of 10 euros (£8.70; $11.40) each. Puigdemont has said that the body will become fully active "as soon as it has the backing of a million people". It follows a virtual model tried out in Estonia, in case of a hypothetical Russian invasion.
 
Sven Karma said:
Just what the world needs:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/catalan-council-republic-international-support_322584_102.html

The Council for the Republic, the body promoted by president in exile Carles Puigdemont and fired minister Toni Comín from Belgium, is now looking for international support. As such, it's launched versions of its website translated into five languages other than the original Catalan: Spanish, French, English, German and Italian (users can change language at the bottom left of the page). They've also announced that they'll soon add options for Occitan and Basque.

The Council currently has 26,000 members of the public registered, who have paid a minimum of 10 euros (£8.70; $11.40) each. Puigdemont has said that the body will become fully active "as soon as it has the backing of a million people". It follows a virtual model tried out in Estonia, in case of a hypothetical Russian invasion.
Click to expand...

"The backing of a million people", all with Russian IP numbers.
This is all Putin, too. Whatever merit the Catalan cause would have, this ain't the time to be Putin's bitch.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
"The backing of a million people", all with Russian IP numbers.
This is all Putin, too. Whatever merit the Catalan cause would have, this ain't the time to be Putin's bitch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no. I don't think the currently being slashed Russian budget is up to the
£8.70; $11.40 per troll fee.

The Russian role in cases like this is what in gaming terms is called a 'chaotic neutral'.
 
Sven Karma said:
Just what the world needs:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/catalan-council-republic-international-support_322584_102.html

The Council for the Republic, the body promoted by president in exile Carles Puigdemont and fired minister Toni Comín from Belgium, is now looking for international support. As such, it's launched versions of its website translated into five languages other than the original Catalan: Spanish, French, English, German and Italian (users can change language at the bottom left of the page). They've also announced that they'll soon add options for Occitan and Basque.

The Council currently has 26,000 members of the public registered, who have paid a minimum of 10 euros (£8.70; $11.40) each. Puigdemont has said that the body will become fully active "as soon as it has the backing of a million people". It follows a virtual model tried out in Estonia, in case of a hypothetical Russian invasion.
Click to expand...
Wonder if the people thus involved realize that by backing a clown one becomes one as well.
 
The global uproar can cease. They're eating again.

https://www.elperiodico.com/es/politica/20181220/presos-dejan-huelga-hambre-7212418
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom