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Finland: Several people stabbed in Turku, police say

And you did not understand the distinction... if it is your family females then it is domestic violence, and if it is random females then it can be debated if it is terror or murder.. well it is murder, but if it can be categorized as terror.

The question is.. if it was a Christian fundamentalist that went wacko and started killing women in the name of religion, would that be terror? probably not.


So, killing for religious beliefs is not terrorism if its a family member? Interesting perspective.

However, my question was not regarding Islam, it was in reference to all religions; I tend to lump them all into the same group regardless.

But, I must say, now you have made me quite curious.....what is your personal definition of terrorism?
 
So, killing for religious beliefs is not terrorism if its a family member? Interesting perspective.

Well legally it is murder, and since it is a family member it is domestic violence as well. Now what is required for it to be "terror".. if you go by anything done with "religious or political beliefs", then you pretty much can put any crime into that category. Another metric is that terror has to effect random unaffiliated innocent peoples... as in plural. Now a family member does not meet the "unaffiliated" part and not even the plurality unless it is all women in a family.

However, my question was not regarding Islam, it was in reference to all religions; I tend to lump them all into the same group regardless.

Good

But, I must say, now you have made me quite curious.....what is your personal definition of terrorism?

Tricky one, since the word and definition has been abused so much that it can pretty much cover anything.. see above. It is a bit like the American use of the word liberal.. first it is not used in context of the actual meaning, and secondly it is used by the right as a label on anyone and anything they dont agree with, basically making the world absolutely useless other than to attempt to smear people.

For me it comes down to terror... if a person or group for whatever reason.. religious or political, goes out to terrorize (to inflict terror) the civilian population to promote their ideology, real or not. So attacks against military or police can be not terror depending on the situation. For example, the US has hunted and prosecuted people in Afghanistan for attacking and killing US troops and more than often used anti-terror laws as an excuse. Now the US legally or not, was an invading force, and it is the right of the local population to rise up and confront that invading and occupying force. Hence the "terror" aspect is problematic. When the French resistance bombed places to attack the Nazies and their colaborators, but also had civilian collateral damage.. was that terror? So as you see it can be a bit tricky.

Now how about a guy who goes "postal" and starts to kill random people for whatever warped reason.. is that terror? Well technically yes in my opinion, as the reasoning he is using, for him is "political or religious".. yes he is insane but it is still terror. That is why I say the attack against Gabby Gifford was a right wing terror attack.. and yet the US right still denies this, because the attacker had "mental issues". I also say that Sandy Hook, and other mass shootings in the US are domestic terror attacks, mostly by the right wing, but I bet you that there would be a lot of people opposing this view.

The real tricky part comes to the Israel-Palestinian issue, but that cant be discussed here.
 
Well legally it is murder, and since it is a family member it is domestic violence as well. Now what is required for it to be "terror".. if you go by anything done with "religious or political beliefs", then you pretty much can put any crime into that category.
Allow me to slip this in.....I would submit, that the founding fathers of the United States were terrorists....political violence meets that standard, regardless of their good intent.
Another metric is that terror has to effect random unaffiliated innocent peoples... as in plural. Now a family member does not meet the "unaffiliated" part and not even the plurality unless it is all women in a family.
I want to interject this here.....when considering the random effect of terror; would not the secondary effect on the community meet that criteria? if we are going to use religious terror in that context, and we overlook the immediate family, does not the fear and intimidation on the community force compliance with the religion? just a thought exercise at this point....moving on....



Good



Tricky one, since the word and definition has been abused so much that it can pretty much cover anything.. see above. It is a bit like the American use of the word liberal.. first it is not used in context of the actual meaning, and secondly it is used by the right as a label on anyone and anything they dont agree with, basically making the world absolutely useless other than to attempt to smear people.

For me it comes down to terror... if a person or group for whatever reason.. religious or political, goes out to terrorize (to inflict terror) the civilian population to promote their ideology, real or not. So attacks against military or police can be not terror depending on the situation. For example, the US has hunted and prosecuted people in Afghanistan for attacking and killing US troops and more than often used anti-terror laws
And at this point, I need to clarify......currently, the US is working in conjunction with the Afghan Government and Security Forces, and prosecuting under Afghan law, not US law...prior to that, however, you are correct.
as an excuse. Now the US legally or not, was an invading force, and it is the right of the local population to rise up and confront that invading and occupying force. Hence the "terror" aspect is problematic. When the French resistance bombed places to attack the Nazies and their colaborators, but also had civilian collateral damage.. was that terror? So as you see it can be a bit tricky.

Now how about a guy who goes "postal" and starts to kill random people for whatever warped reason.. is that terror? Well technically yes in my opinion, as the reasoning he is using, for him is "political or religious".. yes he is insane but it is still terror. That is why I say the attack against Gabby Gifford was a right wing terror attack.. and yet the US right still denies this, because the attacker had "mental issues". I also say that Sandy Hook, and other mass shootings in the US are domestic terror attacks, mostly by the right wing, but I bet you that there would be a lot of people opposing this view.
I think you will find that thought plays out on both sides.....When 13 people were shot to death at Fort Hood by Maj. Hassam, US President refused to call it terrorism...it was "workplace violence" for 6 years

The real tricky part comes to the Israel-Palestinian issue, but that cant be discussed here.

I suppose my rock bottom question is, why does familial relation negate a terror charge when the underlying principle is still religious?

I would like to see global laws passed under the heading of "Religious crimes against the human race"......unfortunately, I do not think that will be forthcoming in my lifetime.
 
I suppose my rock bottom question is, why does familial relation negate a terror charge when the underlying principle is still religious?

It just does, as the principle of terror being against random people that dont know each other, is not met.

Look at it this way..

You beat your wife... domestic violence.
You beat random dude... assault..

Two different crimes, with two different outcomes... but they both share the "beat" part.

I would like to see global laws passed under the heading of "Religious crimes against the human race"......unfortunately, I do not think that will be forthcoming in my lifetime.

Will never happen.
 
It just does, as the principle of terror being against random people that dont know each other, is not met.

Look at it this way..

You beat your wife... domestic violence.
You beat random dude... assault..

Two different crimes, with two different outcomes... but they both share the "beat" part.



Will never happen.

Time will tell.....we can formulate hate crime laws, with time we can formulate religious crime laws.

I don't think we will agree on all aspects of the terrorism definition, but you have made some interesting points.
 
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When was the last time you heard about Islamic terrorists outside war zones, targeting women exclusively?

So you've meant to say that it's strange in general, not "for an Islamic terrorist" as Islamic terrorists aren't these noble beings that would never target a woman.
 
Well, where indiscriminate targeting of victims to kill (indiscriminate of gender as well) is the demonstrated MO of these nutjobs, targeting women specifically is so far something of an outlier (at least in this particular case).

I have no doubt that this kid will wind up providing some jihadist justification for his deed.

So just saying.

A waste of bandwidth Chagos as what was referred to was his wording.
See my previous comment.
 
"We, the western folks with our oil companies, banks, military forces and international politics, put islamic countries in chaos and total destruction, in a dismal situation. These attacks were bound to happen and more will come I'm afraid. I mean I would maybe do the same if I was muslim Arab. Nobody likes to be messed in their homeland.

I wonder how many innocent peaceful civilians got killed in their lands by western civilization. It's a tragedy for all sides involved and we are paying the price of retaliation. Those high-in-power should be held accountable for their criminal schemes."

I posted this in a WN forums and it never went through, it got censored/ignored by a moderator.
Just a follow-up on this post to correct me and say the post finally got accepted.

These events are tragic, but deep down we all know Western mafia are responsible for the surge of these attacks. After Arabs have been pushed back from Europe to my knowledge between the 10th and 11th century A.C we never had any more troubles with them, each living in its own space and its own history. This cultural and religious clash was instigated by West world through Arab leaders. (Ossama bin Laden, Al-Qaida, ISIS and most certainly there are more examples).

Why nobody discusses about this instead? We must cut the problem at its true root. Western mafia is manipulating a very small minoritary view of Islam to their advantage and fulfil what I think is their criminal plans by arming them, and supporting Arab leaders who finance and spread the ideology. It's a shady criminal business that is hard to prove but obvious to observe.

EU claims universal human rights but then let thousands of immigrants drown in the Mediterranean sea making only brief news about it, if ever. The hypocrisy and double-speech is disgusting when they know Euro banks were responsable for the "revolution" in the Arab world. Eurobanks were under stress and spotlight stress so Europe decided to shift that attention to their sphere of influence by putting Arab world in chaos. The result: more guns sold, more shady business, new opportunities and not be in the news-media central attentions. As long as populace does not awake from bankers crimes all is good in their criminal shady world. And thus history repeats itself by not learning from past mistakes and those criminals having sense of total impunity.


 
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