taking Barcelona terror attack to the forum it belongs

[JANFU]

Yes and no.. it comes down to trust, and some countries trust others more than others and that comes down to history.

When an attacks that kills dozens or hundreds, and they find out is could have been prevented, but was caused by that countries failure to share Intel, well there will be hell to pay and heads will roll.
IIRC that happened in the Belgium attacks.

 

[Roadvirus]

.....and the irony here (Spain) is that some of the very TV news channels that published the appeal, then went on to show exactly such footage as supplied by eager cell phone users.

Pfft. That's a news station that's stuck on stupid.

 

[Chagos]

Clean skins?? Missed that. sorry.
I take it not known nor suspected, no Intel, lone wolf??

Correct.

Charles Clarke, Home Secretary at the time of the London subway bombings coined the phrase by thus describing the perps. at the time.

 

[JANFU]

People who do that are disgusting.

First of all, no one wants to see such gruesome sights.
Second, (as you said) it's a disrespect to the victims' families.

True, families will see their family members, dead and injured, and find out from the freaking news. Same as when they publish names of the killed, before the families are notified.

 

[JANFU]

Correct.

Charles Clarke, Home Secretary at the time of the London subway bombings coined the phrase by thus describing the perps. at the time.

Good to know. Thank you

 

[PeteEU]

When an attacks that kills dozens or hundreds, and they find out is could have been prevented, but was caused by that countries failure to share Intel, well there will be hell to pay and heads will roll.
IIRC that happened in the Belgium attacks.

The Belgium attacks was not sharing intel between countries, but internal sharing. The sad fact is, that the laws are so ****ed up, that for the Belgian police to get intelligence fast, it is easier and faster to go via France, Germany or any other countries police and intelligence services, than asking their own. THAT was the problem in Belgium.

 

[JANFU]

The Belgium attacks was not sharing intel between countries, but internal sharing. The sad fact is, that the laws are so ****ed up, that for the Belgian police to get intelligence fast, it is easier and faster to go via France, Germany or any other countries police and intelligence services, than asking their own. THAT was the problem in Belgium.

But you would agree many countries in the EU are not proficient in sharing Intel with each other. From what I understand they have a group set up, but sharing Intel is not always equally done between all. Some countries share more than others, and IIRC there are only 2 or 3 that readily share Intel?

 

[Manc Skipper]

Well whenever the police or intelligence services are asked about this they say that there are a few thousand people who world be willing to participate, in one form or another, in terrorist activities but that they don't have the resources or man power to properly keep tabs on all of them, and less so in light of recent cuts. There seems to be an obvious solution to this.

But that would break the magic "austerity" mantra, where the taxpayer must suffer to repay the bankster debt, and public services must be starved out of existence so they can be privatised.

 

[Chagos]

Yes and no.. it comes down to trust, and some countries trust others more than others and that comes down to history.

Heck, happens not just between countries.

FBI-CIA prior to 9/11, anyone?

I recall times when MI5 and MI6 were actively competing and don't even bring Whitehall into that one in those times.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, arrests are now numbered at two and the one whose identity has been published, where not exactly a "cleanskin" (record of domestic abuse with arrest warrant issued), showed no known prior signs of going jihadist.

There're reports of somebody (a persp?) being shot as well but details remain fuzzy for now.

 

[PeteEU]

But you would agree many countries in the EU are not proficient in sharing Intel with each other. From what I understand they have a group set up, but sharing Intel is not always equally done between all. Some countries share more than others, and IIRC there are only 2 or 3 that readily share Intel?

No I would not agree at all. If that was true, then the intelligence sharing system would not be such a top priority for countries. Why be part of such a system if it does not work?

 

[JANFU]

No I would not agree at all. If that was true, then the intelligence sharing system would not be such a top priority for countries. Why be part of such a system if it does not work?

My point is not all are sharing equally- Only a few countries, and the EU has more than a few share substantial data on terror threats.

 

[PeteEU]

Heck, happens not just between countries.

FBI-CIA prior to 9/11, anyone?

I recall times when MI5 and MI6 were actively competing and don't even bring Whitehall into that one in those times.

Correct. Often the problem is internal and not so much external.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, arrests are now numbered at two and the one whose identity has been published, where not exactly a "cleanskin" (record of domestic abuse with arrest warrant issued), showed no known prior signs of going jihadist.

There're reports of somebody (a persp?) being shot as well but details remain fuzzy for now.

Well if they have no prior signs of being "jihadist", the how the hell can one stop them. I mean the Spanish have a considerable and very good intelligence system in place and have been arresting jihadists every month for a long time and then we have these guys... it is impossible for a non police state to do anything.

 

[Chagos]

Well whenever the police or intelligence services are asked about this they say that there are a few thousand people who world be willing to participate, in one form or another, in terrorist activities but that they don't have the resources or man power to properly keep tabs on all of them, and less so in light of recent cuts. There seems to be an obvious solution to this.

Provisional executions come to mind, always reversible if shown to have been hasty.:mrgreen:

Sorry, but these kind of things don't do much for the quality of my humor :3oops:

On a more serious note, keeping a 24/7/365 tab on that sort of number of potentials would incur costs that would probably bust any budget.

With around 25 cops or other security guys needed to keep a 24/7 tab on just one suspect, by which factor would the current police force have to be multiplied just for that?

 

[Chagos]

Correct. Often the problem is internal and not so much external.



Well if they have no prior signs of being "jihadist", the how the hell can one stop them. I mean the Spanish have a considerable and very good intelligence system in place and have been arresting jihadists every month for a long time and then we have these guys... it is impossible for a non police state to do anything.

Which is indeed my point.

 

[PeteEU]

My point is not all are sharing equally- Only a few countries, and the EU has more than a few share substantial data on terror threats.

It is always up to the countries it self to define what is "sharable data". What I mean, you dont want to share information about every single criminal or crime since then the system would be overloaded with information.

So those sharing large amount of information are most likely those countries with a history of terror and larger populations that are so called linked to terror. So Poland for example does not have that much information to share, relative to say the UK or France.

 

[PeteEU]

Which is indeed my point.

Sorry you cant have a point.. it is forbidden.

And my point is... look at the Nice killer.. a known crazy with drug problems, and a "bad" Muslim.. suddenly he becomes radicalized or influenced to do his attack (he was mental after all) or did he just go "postal"? We shall never know the truth.

 

[Chagos]

Sorry you cant have a point.. it is forbidden...........~

Sorry my bad, I clean forgot.

 

[truthatallcost]

I wonder when the EU will better coordinate their Intel on these freaks.

Spanish police have arrested some 200 potential terrorists in the past couple years, men who were affiliated with Isil. The problem is that authorities have to weed out 100% of these guys or people die.

 

[PeteEU]

Sorry my bad, I clean forgot.

One thing is for sure... Whatsapp is being used massively by people in Spain.. gezz.

Newest info is that one guy is of Moroccan decent, but he handed himself in, which leads me to believe that he has nothing to do with it. Does not help that the media are plastering his face everywhere... his name is on the truck rental, but he claims that the information was stolen... plausible. This is the guy you were talking about. We shall see.

The other arrested is from Melilla, Spain.. one of the cities the Spanish intelligence have been arresting a lot of suspected jihadists. No name yet, but means he is most likely Spanish.

 

[truthatallcost]

Sorry you cant have a point.. it is forbidden.

And my point is... look at the Nice killer.. a known crazy with drug problems, and a "bad" Muslim.. suddenly he becomes radicalized or influenced to do his attack (he was mental after all) or did he just go "postal"? We shall never know the truth.

There were dozens of associates arrested in the Nice attack, so it wasn't a lone wolf, 'going postal' situation.

 

[PeteEU]

There were dozens of associates arrested in the Nice attack, so it wasn't a lone wolf, 'going postal' situation.

Arrests.. yes, but how many convictions for terror? Some were arrested (not sure if they have been convicted) for supply him weapons, but the police (from what I can gather) are certain that they did not know what he was going to do.

 

[JANFU]

Spanish police have arrested some 200 potential terrorists in the past couple years, men who were affiliated with Isil. The problem is that authorities have to weed out 100% of these guys or people die.

You can never achieve 100 %.

 

[Chagos]

The Nice attacker (Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel) didn't come up on any (jihadist) radar whatsoever, prior to conducting his attack. Didn't even grow his beard until about 8 days prior to crashing along the promenade.

His 5 accomplices were not identified until after his death when his "stuff" was searched. Prior to which they hadn't shown up on the radar either, with only one of them having a drug and robbery related police record.

That the authorities related dozens as associated with the attack (let alone charged them) is a load of bull.

As usual, one might add here.:roll:

 

[Chagos]

One thing is for sure... Whatsapp is being used massively by people in Spain.. gezz.

Newest info is that one guy is of Moroccan decent, but he handed himself in, which leads me to believe that he has nothing to do with it. Does not help that the media are plastering his face everywhere... his name is on the truck rental, but he claims that the information was stolen... plausible. This is the guy you were talking about. We shall see.

The other arrested is from Melilla, Spain.. one of the cities the Spanish intelligence have been arresting a lot of suspected jihadists. No name yet, but means he is most likely Spanish.

The beauty of my subjecting myself to no social media or any sort of other "easy blather app" whatsoever, lies in none of them being able to annoy me.:mrgreen:

Beyond which I prefer to wait until the authorities have their story straight, even if 2004 was nothing to go by in that respect.

As such the top cop just wisely stated not (as yet) knowing whether the guy arrested (and shot?) at a roadblock is related to the Ramblas thing or not.

 

[truthatallcost]

Arrests.. yes, but how many convictions for terror? Some were arrested (not sure if they have been convicted) for supply him weapons, but the police (from what I can gather) are certain that they did not know what he was going to do.

Some were arrested for terrorism related charges, but I don't know what if any penalties they've had to pay. France has been very liberal on some known jihadis, even giving one man a few months in jail for trying to kill a policeman with an AK-47.