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Your opinions on EU open borders and freedom of movement

Lafayette said:
Protect how? With very high import duties? What does that get you? American made cars that sell worse than, say, South Korean cars smuggled in from Mexico/Canada? What is the sense of that?

Import Duties is a subject that has long been the responsibility of the World Trade Organization (WTO), where import duties are negotiated since the 1950s. There have been several rounds that have reduced said duties considerably and thus increased exports, which have created jobs around the globe - not just in the US.
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It means enforcing strict immigration laws to keep cheap labor out.
 
SDET said:
It means enforcing strict immigration laws to keep cheap labor out.
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Bull****.. All European countries have minimum wage rules in place. Not the fault of immigrants that the local population is too lazy to work for minimum wage.
 
The May government is talking about securing Britain's borders from immigrants in the same breath as describing open borders to tourists, and no border posts of any kind in Ireland (where we will have a land border with the EU.)
 
SDET said:
It means enforcing strict immigration laws to keep cheap labor out.
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If Merkel first-embraced the flood of refugees from the Middle-east it was because Germany needed the manpower. They have nobody to sweep the streets and other lower-class jobs that are seeking manpower.

Germans are very well educated people nowadays and they don't care to work picking-up the garbage, or other such jobs.

That is also happening in other parts of Europe where retirement is taking people out of the workforce and they too must be replaced. But by who or what? Robots? Aint gonna happin!

They have to be replaced by migrants - but quite likely NOT ALL those drifting up from middle-Africa and who make it across the Med, just because the're looking for a job. They are more than a million since the past 3/4 years. Into a total population of 743 million people who inhabit the EU.

Many of them will have to go "home" - but a good many will also find jobs as the EU collective economies recover.

Meaning that most but perhaps not all can indeed be absorbed ...
 
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PeteEU said:
Bull****.. All European countries have minimum wage rules in place. Not the fault of immigrants that the local population is too lazy to work for minimum wage.
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That would include also experienced software engineers too lazy to work for minimum wage, right? You sound just like Raul Castro as he enforces his $40 per month MAXIMUM wage for the "lofty" goal of economic equality.
 
SDET said:
That would include also experienced software engineers too lazy to work for minimum wage, right? You sound just like Raul Castro as he enforces his $40 per month MAXIMUM wage for the "lofty" goal of economic equality.
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eh? We are talking about low wage jobs, not high wage jobs. High wage jobs more than often comes down to skill, not that someone is willing to work for less. The reason that companies hire Indian programmers is that they have a work ethic and skill level that "locals" often dont and certainly dont have in the same numbers.
 
PeteEU said:
eh? We are talking about low wage jobs, not high wage jobs. High wage jobs more than often comes down to skill, not that someone is willing to work for less. The reason that companies hire Indian programmers is that they have a work ethic and skill level that "locals" often dont and certainly dont have in the same numbers.
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If you have the mentality that "a good lie will fix anything" is a good work ethic, then you might have something there. I live with the results. All too often I have been in situations where dumbing-down my code is expect so as not to confuse the offshore team. If lots of simple-minded cookie cutter output is desired, Indian programmers fill the bill. I'm better than that.
 
The EU is actually breaking apart. In less than ten years the union will look much differently than. Here's why. 1st, brexit wasn't just some country leaving. It was a leader of the Free world. They were the one country that successfully resisted the Nazis. 2nd,. Several countries are contracting on issues from trade to immigration. And 3rd, Putin is this centuries Germany. Trump, with very weak foreign policy, will be played like drum by Russia. These things are not predictions. It is happening now.
Thank u for reading



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Chagos said:
You're welcome.

And thank YOU for the laugh.
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Donald Trump typed it for me. I asked him if he new to blog and he said he had plenty of time between putts[emoji3]

Sent from my Z833 using Tapatalk
 
MrWonka said:
Is the difference between the people of England and the people of say....Italy radically more significant than say the difference between the people of Texas and the people of New York in the United States?
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Yes! I'd say having lived in both; and learning that "Language is culture and culture is what distinguishes a people".

Having said that, can "culture" be measured and therefore scrutinized and categorized? I doubt it.

A Yank, I have had the good opportunity of living in five different European countries. Knowing the languages gives one an "inside look" at a culture. Not knowing the language (but living there) allows one simply a glimpse.

How are differences in culture significant? I would offer this bit of conjecture: Because Europe has known since time immemorial a monarchy, its culture has been influenced heavily (until the 20th century) by an inordinate respect for government structures and particularly top-down leadership.

Furthermore, I feel that those colonies that found independence from a European monarchy evolved more quickly with less dependence upon "leadership figures" - male or female. Furthermore, those countries that undertook a "separation of governance" (Executive, Legislative and Judicial) are today far less dependent upon "heads of government" with near omnipotent decisionary powers.

The US was perhaps the role-model for such a political evolution since it started earlier. Europe has yet to arrive at that exact model because it does not have an Executive power cross-nationally ...
 
Dirt Sands said:
The EU is actually breaking apart. In less than ten years the union will look much differently than. Here's why. 1st, brexit wasn't just some country leaving. It was a leader of the Free world. They were the one country that successfully resisted the Nazis.
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Bollocks.

The Brits are just beginning to see the signs of what a tremendous mistake they have made. It will take a few more years to sink in. They've not yet felt fully the reduction in EU trade that will hurt jobs. Especially in Finance.

Britain has collectively shot itself in the foot ...

Sent from your TapaDork.
 
SDET said:
It means enforcing strict immigration laws to keep cheap labor out.
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Then who would collect your garbage?

You'd take it yourself to the dump? (Can I take a photo ... ?)
 
For the Europeans in makes perfect sense and is natural. living and working in such close proximity is bound to create bonds between nations. Us over the water, we're a different kettle of fish :lol:
 
gunner said:
For the Europeans in makes perfect sense and is natural. living and working in such close proximity is bound to create bonds between nations. Us over the water, we're a different kettle of fish :lol:
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May be not that much as you think. Your royals are Germans, your ancestors were northern German tribes and even the language - when I talk dialect, it sounds much like English, both vocabulary and grammar. (Westphalian is an old Saxon language) ;)

For me, Brexit is sad but true and instead of "you will see one day" - both sides should make the best of it. And a hard border in Ireland for example defeniteley is not part of the best.

p.s.: - and if you are saying "we are more britannic than german" - you should make Cardiff your Capital instead of London ;oP
 
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Lafayette said:
Then who would collect your garbage?

You'd take it yourself to the dump? (Can I take a photo ... ?)
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Teenagers and jailbirds did that kind of work back in the day.
 
SDET said:
Teenagers and jailbirds did that kind of work back in the day.
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Answer the question! Who does it TODAY!

Teenagers haven't the muscle, and they should be in school, not collecting garbage.

As for "jailbirds", the US has the highest incarceration rate of any developed nation. The world-map looks like this:
500px-Prisoners_world_map_png2.png


Why do you think that's so? Because our justice is so "effective", or simply because crime has become a bad-habit in America? I prefer the latter reason.

The national crime-rate is intimately linked to level of education. If one has had a sufficient level of education, one tends to work rather than steal. From Crime Rates Linked To Educational Attainment, 2013 Alliance Report Finds:
“Improving the nation’s high schools and engaging students will not only save the nation dollars, it will save students’ futures,” says Gov. Bob Wise

WASHINGTON, DC – The nation could save as much as $18.5 billion in annual crime costs if the high school male graduation rate increased by only 5 percentage points, a 2013 report from the Alliance for Excellent Education finds. The report, Saving Futures, Saving Dollars: The Impact of Education on Crime Reduction and Earnings, examines and builds upon research that links lower levels of educational attainment with higher rates of arrests and incarceration. Support for the report was provided in part by State Farm® as part of a series of documents that demonstrates the economic benefits from improving high school graduation rates.

“The nation needs to focus dollars and efforts on reforming school climates to keep students engaged in ways that will lead them toward college and a career and away from crime and prison,” said Bob Wise, president of the Alliance for Excellent Education and former governor of West Virginia. “The school-to-prison pipeline starts and ends with schools.”

The report includes a state-by-state breakdown of estimated annual crime savings, which vary from $14 million in New Hampshire to $215 million in Nevada to $2.4 billion in California. This data shows that all states stand to gain from increasing their high school graduation rate.

In addition to examining total crime savings, the report projects the number of individual crimes that could be prevented by increasing the male high school graduation rate by 5 percentage points, and finds that such an increase would decrease overall annual incidences of assault by nearly 60,000; larceny by more than 37,000; motor vehicle theft by more than 31,000; and burglaries by more than 17,000. It would also prevent nearly 1,300 murders, more than 3,800 occurrences of rape, and more than 1,500 robberies.

Saving Futures, Saving Dollars notes the disparity between annual federal spending on students and inmates, and the findings are staggering; the United States spends $12,643 to educate one student for one year versus the annual cost of $28,323 to house one inmate. “If the nation made a comparable investment in effort and dollars in schools as it does in jails and prisons, the return would be decreased levels of criminal activity and incarceration as well as significant and life-changing impacts on the individual,” the report notes.
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And finally, why do we have such a low degree rate of post-secondary educational schooling. Because the cost is too damn expensive. Which is why Hillary proposed Bernie's idea that tertiary-education should be free for families living below the average annual wage of 100K* (the median individual wage in the US is $54K per person.)

And an asinine Electoral College overturned the popular vote won by Hillary and instead gave us Donald Dork ...

*That rule would exempt only five American states from benefiting from such a program. See here.
 
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In general, I think borders and limits to immigration are a good thing today. The importance and fragility of settled communities is often forgotten. Even relatively small amounts of immigration, even from within a nation, can have clear negative effects, in social, and economic (broadly defined) terms, whatever benefits may arise. Open borders and mass immigration are generally bad ideas. This is one of the many reasons I am glad Brexit occurred.
 
There is no single glib answer to questions of borders and immigration. Some relationships might as well have open borders (Canada and US), others should not (US and Mexico). Much of it depends on comparative values, abilities, and complimentary skills. Much of it also depends on cultural differences.

While open borders tends to maximize the average wealth of nations, there are always winners and losers within countries.
 
Immigration tends to increase overall GDP. Whether it increases per capita GDP is much more controversial. Obviously, it is per capita GDP that represents an actual increase in individual wealth. If an increase in overall GDP is overset by an increase in population, individual wealth hasn't actually increased.
 
Wessexman said:
In general, I think borders and limits to immigration are a good thing today. The importance and fragility of settled communities is often forgotten. Even relatively small amounts of immigration, even from within a nation, can have clear negative effects, in social, and economic (broadly defined) terms, whatever benefits may arise. Open borders and mass immigration are generally bad ideas. This is one of the many reasons I am glad Brexit occurred.
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so you upped and went down under.:mrgreen:
 
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