• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

English Hospital won't treat soldier who lost his legs because he is Scottish

Godric1970

Scottish and Proud
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
471
Location
Darkest Ayrshire
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Better together you are having a laugh

'This is the ultimate slap in the face' Former soldier lost his legs in Afghanistan but English hospital will no longer treat him because he's Scottish
Lance Corporal Callum Brown has been told the English NHS will no longer foot the bill for his treatment at hospital specialising in military casualties.

'This is the ultimate slap in the face' Former soldier lost his legs in Afghanistan but English hospital will no longer treat him because he's Scottish - Daily Record
 
The tax payers pay extra because that's how civilised countries work. As for this story I'm calling BS on it.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
 
The tax payers pay extra because that's how civilised countries work. As for this story I'm calling BS on it.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

it ain't bullsh!t it is the only military hospital in the UK

we have 10s of Thousands of English come up to Scotland to be treated on our NHS because the English NHS is mince
 
The tax payers pay extra because that's how civilised countries work. As for this story I'm calling BS on it.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

Maybe the Canadian taxpayer should pay?

No. All joking aside. The taxpayer should not pay, unless there is reason, as there is in the case of a veteran. But it should not come out of some ill defined complex and nontransparent pot of taxpayer money. It should be paid for by the section of government responsible for the damage.
 
Better together you are having a laugh
You do understand that the cause of this problem is devolution? If we had a British NHS, it wouldn’t be an issue but because Scottish politicians demanded a separate healthcare system, Scottish residents can receive a different (better or worse) service to English and Welsh ones.

It seems to me that this should be relatively straight forward to resolve though; NHS Scotland just needs to authorise the funding of his treatment at the specialist hospital in England. If there is any problem or resistance on this, the cause would be NHS Scotland rather than NHS England and certainly not the individual hospital, where the Daily Record seems to want to lay the blame (beyond the general “blame the English!” line).
 
You do understand that the cause of this problem is devolution? If we had a British NHS, it wouldn’t be an issue but because Scottish politicians demanded a separate healthcare system, Scottish residents can receive a different (better or worse) service to English and Welsh ones.

It seems to me that this should be relatively straight forward to resolve though; NHS Scotland just needs to authorise the funding of his treatment at the specialist hospital in England. If there is any problem or resistance on this, the cause would be NHS Scotland rather than NHS England and certainly not the individual hospital, where the Daily Record seems to want to lay the blame (beyond the general “blame the English!” line).

this is a stated funded military hospital for the UK armed forces .... the military is a reserved matter

it is truly disgusting nothing is said when 10s of thousands of English come up to Scotland to be treated every year and NHS boards in England send over a hundred of patients with mental problems every year because they either can't cope or don't have the facilities .... basically 2nd class citizens .... how then can they seriously claim we are better together ....
 
this is a stated funded military hospital for the UK armed forces .... the military is a reserved matter

it is truly disgusting nothing is said when 10s of thousands of English come up to Scotland to be treated every year and NHS boards in England send over a hundred of patients with mental problems every year because they either can't cope or don't have the facilities .... basically 2nd class citizens .... how then can they seriously claim we are better together ....

What are the stats on Scots being treated in England on a yearly basis?

This would give us a clearer picture overall.
 
this is a stated funded military hospital for the UK armed forces .... the military is a reserved matter
It’s a dedicated military unit within a standard NHS hospital and the funding is both mixed and complex. The funding for the continuing treatment of this individual (and I suspect all outpatient treatment for service personnel) is clearly funded by (or at least via) the NHS and thus, like all cross border treatment, requires some form of funding agreement between English and Scottish NHS organisations.
In a perfect world this would be seamless and not a problem but that perfect world would require a single British NHS or at least less of the political interference that has led to much of this kind of disputation in recent years.

it is truly disgusting nothing is said when 10s of thousands of English come up to Scotland to be treated every year and NHS boards in England send over a hundred of patients with mental problems every year because they either can't cope or don't have the facilities .... basically 2nd class citizens .... how then can they seriously claim we are better together ....
Lots of Scottish patients travel south of the border for NHS treatment too. There should be plenty of patients crossing the border because there will be lots of situations where the best treatment for them can be provided elsewhere. Centralisation of specialist medical services is the way forwards and healthcare becomes ever more complex and diverse. This happens pretty much seamlessly within England/Wales and within Scotland. It used to happen fairly seamlessly across the border too, despite NHS Scotland always being a separate organisation. Only in recent years have we seen political operators deliberately trying to drive a wedge between the nations of the UK and using the NHS as a tool for that. As I said, I strongly suspect this case is an unfortunate fallout from that.

As you point out, QEHB hosts the only dedicated secondary care unit for service personnel so the further division you seem to be favouring could leave Scottish service personnel with no dedicated services at all. This isn’t about the doctors refusing to treat him, only about the politics of the funding.
 
So the Scots hate the English?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It’s a dedicated military unit within a standard NHS hospital and the funding is both mixed and complex. The funding for the continuing treatment of this individual (and I suspect all outpatient treatment for service personnel) is clearly funded by (or at least via) the NHS and thus, like all cross border treatment, requires some form of funding agreement between English and Scottish NHS organisations.
In a perfect world this would be seamless and not a problem but that perfect world would require a single British NHS or at least less of the political interference that has led to much of this kind of disputation in recent years.

Lots of Scottish patients travel south of the border for NHS treatment too. There should be plenty of patients crossing the border because there will be lots of situations where the best treatment for them can be provided elsewhere. Centralisation of specialist medical services is the way forwards and healthcare becomes ever more complex and diverse. This happens pretty much seamlessly within England/Wales and within Scotland. It used to happen fairly seamlessly across the border too, despite NHS Scotland always being a separate organisation. Only in recent years have we seen political operators deliberately trying to drive a wedge between the nations of the UK and using the NHS as a tool for that. As I said, I strongly suspect this case is an unfortunate fallout from that.

As you point out, QEHB hosts the only dedicated secondary care unit for service personnel so the further division you seem to be favouring could leave Scottish service personnel with no dedicated services at all. This isn’t about the doctors refusing to treat him, only about the politics of the funding.

well those so called UK military care centres don't give a sh!t about him .... a independent Scotland would build our own medical facilities for our own armed forces

England sends over 150 mental patients from England every year because you can't cope, thousands cross the border on a daily basis to gain free prescriptions from our NHS spending because they have to pay for them down south


just watch the recruitment for the British army in Scotland tumble because of this
 
I am curious how the system works.

I am not seeing the England being the bad guy if they are just asking the Scottish Healthcare Service to foot the bill.
 
That's social medicine for you. But the upside is that they seem to have treated him for a long time, before they realized that someone had to pay. ;)

Nothing to do with 'social medicine'. He was being treated on 'social medicine' just fine before. As has every other Scottish soldier in England.

Now, I wonder what has changed recently that might have caused the English NHS to be unable to treat people that are not from England?

All English hospital's should treat Scottish people and vice versa.
 
I am curious how the system works.

I am not seeing the England being the bad guy if they are just asking the Scottish Healthcare Service to foot the bill.

this is a hospital that is specifically for wounded UK soldiers as he served in the UK armed forces that hospital is liable for his treatment .... that is what we pay our taxes are for ... the UK government decreed where Servicemen where treated/cared for
 
well those so called UK military care centres don't give a sh!t about him .... a independent Scotland would build our own medical facilities for our own armed forces
You don't care about him either, you're just using him to try to spin out your political position (ignorantly as it happens). I'm not interested in playing that game.
 
You don't care about him either, you're just using him to try to spin out your political position (ignorantly as it happens). I'm not interested in playing that game.

The UK government closed down the military hospitals / wards, got rid of a lot the brilliant QARANC nurses and contacted the work out to the NHS. All of the initial treatment is around Birmingham and soldiers who are wounded are forced to go there. Initially the conditions were dire but have improved. Now given that the major pool of military trauma nursing and surgery is based in South West England deliberately, why should this guy be forced to go elsewhere. He should clearly be where the repository of expertise and knowledge lies.

this has nothing to do with devolution. NHS Scotland and England have been separate entities since their foundation in the late 1940's.
 
this is a hospital that is specifically for wounded UK soldiers as he served in the UK armed forces that hospital is liable for his treatment .... that is what we pay our taxes are for ... the UK government decreed where Servicemen where treated/cared for

I really dont understand the system and reimbursement.
 
Now given that the major pool of military trauma nursing and surgery is based in South West England deliberately, why should this guy be forced to go elsewhere. He should clearly be where the repository of expertise and knowledge lies.
Nobody is saying he has to go anywhere else. The only question is where the funding for his treatment comes from. The situation should be easily resolved, it just requires the relevant NHS Scotland Health Board to commission his treatment, just as they do for any other resident. If there's some kind of complication in that, the Daily Record article conveniently avoids even hinting at it.

this has nothing to do with devolution. NHS Scotland and England have been separate entities since their foundation in the late 1940's.
Yes, but integration between them has been significantly impacted by devolution and politically influenced structural changes have caused them to drift further apart. As I said, this kind of thing was seamless in the past (it's not as if this is the first Scottish member of the armed forces to require this level and length of treatment). This story tells us that either something has changed in the cross-border NHS relationships or someone is spinning up a non-story to encourage further division between England and Scotland.

I really dont understand the system and reimbursement.
Don't feel bad, neither does Godric. :cool:
 
Nobody is saying he has to go anywhere else. The only question is where the funding for his treatment comes from. The situation should be easily resolved, it just requires the relevant NHS Scotland Health Board to commission his treatment, just as they do for any other resident. If there's some kind of complication in that, the Daily Record article conveniently avoids even hinting at it.

Yes, but integration between them has been significantly impacted by devolution and politically influenced structural changes have caused them to drift further apart. As I said, this kind of thing was seamless in the past (it's not as if this is the first Scottish member of the armed forces to require this level and length of treatment). This story tells us that either something has changed in the cross-border NHS relationships or someone is spinning up a non-story to encourage further division between England and Scotland.

Don't feel bad, neither does Godric. :cool:
well it must be all the media then it is in the local press in Birmingham, The Independent among other UK media outlets

it wouldn't have been a problem had successive governments closed down military hospitals ... those hospitals because they were military were funded centrally from the UK military budget

the UK no longer works at any level ... we have totally diverged on almost everything

in '97 they put the wrong option the ballot paper it should have been Independence or the UK .... the Labour party was desperate to stop the SNP in Scotland and thought it would quell our desire for Independence
 
well it must be all the media then it is in the local press in Birmingham, The Independent among other UK media outlets
The media just copy-paste each other. Only one of them (if that) will have done any primary investigation.

it wouldn't have been a problem had successive governments closed down military hospitals ... those hospitals because they were military were funded centrally from the UK military budget

the UK no longer works at any level ... we have totally diverged on almost everything

in '97 they put the wrong option the ballot paper it should have been Independence or the UK .... the Labour party was desperate to stop the SNP in Scotland and thought it would quell our desire for Independence
So I was right that you don't really care about the healthcare aspect here, you were using this man as a tool for your personal political position despite there being zero evidence of any connection.
 
The media just copy-paste each other. Only one of them (if that) will have done any primary investigation.

So I was right that you don't really care about the healthcare aspect here, you were using this man as a tool for your personal political position despite there being zero evidence of any connection.

wrong ... i do care ... the problem is the UK does not work it has failed him and many others ... so why should we stick with something that clearly does not work
 
Back
Top Bottom