Turkey scraps the evolution theory from it school books

shrubnose said:

Until Turkey admits the Armenian massacre and pays massive reparations it shouldn't be part of the EU.

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Whom should they pay? The living survivors, like Germany compensated the slaves? Or more along the lines of the way the French compensated the Jews, Romanys and Algerians?

joG said:

Whom should they pay?

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The living survivors, like Germany compensated the slaves? Or more along the lines of the way the French compensated the Jews, Romanys and Algerians?

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Ask the country of Armenia.

shrubnose said:

Ask the country of Armenia.

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You mean whether they got the worse deal or whether it was Quandt's slaves or maybe the French Romanys? But, what the hell. They all got a rotten deal and none the less the Germans and French are in the EU. Using the Armenians to argue the Turks should not be in the EU was not valid, when it was done in 2004 and it is not valid now.

joG said:

You mean whether they got the worse deal or whether it was Quandt's slaves or maybe the French Romanys? But, what the hell. They all got a rotten deal and none the less the Germans and French are in the EU.

Using the Armenians to argue the Turks should not be in the EU was not valid, when it was done in 2004 and it is not valid now.

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Believe whatever you want to believe,it will have no effect on reality and I doubt that any Armenians will buy into your BS.

Have a nice millisecond.

:lol:

Peter King said:

I believe most European countries should be a member of the EU, there is strength in numbers.

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Which isn't necessarily wrong-headed...It is however, in its current form; exploitative, manipulative, and chock-full of disparities -- political as well as economic.

Germany is also going after Turkey after the tried to extort the German government by saying they were only releasing German citizens if Germany extradited Turkish officers who got political asylum last year. They arrested a German Turkish journalist who is sitting in jail without a trial and now they arrested a German human rights activists.

They have also forbidden a group of German members of parliament to visit the German troops in Turkey.

They also have been regularly called Nazi's for their refusal to allow Turkish political campaigning to take place (by Turkish ministers) and keep being verbally harassed by Erdogan.

Now, after all this the Germans have had enough. They are not taking it anymore. They have altered their travel advise for people from Germany to visit Turkey.

They have said publicly (by mouth of the minister of foreign affairs): "People have to ask themselves people really want to visit Turkey". Adding that "People who travel from Germany to Turkey, are at risk".

They also advise/call on companies to stop investing in Turkey. Germany also wants to have a discussion with other EU members about stopping the money Turkey gets to help them prepare for joining the EU (which is a huge chunk of money every year). The Netherlands is also in favor of doing this but here it was suggested after the arrest of the head of amnesty international from Turkey and the deplorable human rights situation in Turkey.

The Netherlands also has altered it's travel advise to Turkey but we have done this because of the continuation of the state of emergency in Turkey.

In the latest display of tensions between Turkey and other NATO member nations, Turkey’s state-run Anadolu news agency earlier this week published a detailed report of the secret locations of US military bases, operational posts and military posts inside Syria. The 620-word news report also included the numbers of US soldiers and French special forces stationed at these locations.

The unprecedented leaking of sensitive battlefield information by the state-run news agency obviously had official Turkish backing, according to Jasper Mortimer, FRANCE 24’s Turkey correspondent.

“It certainly was intentional. Anadolu agency is the hand-servant of the [Turkish] government. It would not have published this report without the green light from the top of government,” explained Mortimer, reporting from Ankara, adding that the revelation of troop numbers was particularly serious. “War correspondents do not give the number of troops in the unit to which they are attached. That is seen as giving information to the enemy. But here, Anadolu agency appears to have done exactly that.”

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Turkey' 'leaks' 'secret' 'locations' 'of' 'US,' 'French' 'troops' 'in' 'Syria' '-' 'France' '24

I would say this is far more concerning than the Turks not teaching about finches and their eating habits...

Unlike Putin, Erdogan has a fairly extremist ideology propelling his insanity. In my opinion, that makes him far more dangerous and uncontrollable. Putin can be appeased. Erdogan? Not so much, his endgame is far more concreted into his regime, and he'll stop at nothing to fulfill it.

Germany demands EU SLASHES £4.1BILLION Turkey aid for reintroducing death penalty

Looks like Incirlik won't be the end of German-Turkish tensions. Now, because of Turkey's death of secularism, Germany is accelerating its sanctioning of Erdogan just as Erdogan is accelerating his authoritarianism. We had earlier the row between Turkey and Bulgaria, the row between Turkey and Austria, and now Germany and France. Turkey is rapidly isolating itself. Even Russia is watching its back. Turkey is a very large country with a powerful military, not to mention their geostrategic location stretching from Southeastern Europe well into Central Asia and the Near East. So, it makes sense how hard they're cracking down on Turkey as opposed to other illiberal states such as Hungary or Russia.

We may also be looking at Turkish troops soon ending up in the Gaza Strip and directly threatening Israel.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey Replaces Top Military Chiefs

Analysis // Erdogan's Purge Campaign in Turkey Reaches New Depths

Since the diccussion evolved to EU-Turkey membership stuff, wanna copy my post from another thread for the record.

"Look, I am a secular Turk and you may not find anybody that despises and loathes Erdogan more than me. He is damaging my country ever day every second.

He wouldnt have had this MUCH power and this many excuses if European Union treated Turkish people fair. We deserved (past tense) to be a member more than Romania or Bulgaria. Come on, just have a walk in Istanbul, then Sofia and Bucharest. (I love those cities too, no offence)

EU didn't punish Erdogan, but Turkish people (at least %45 of them being secular and having a western life style) and empowered Erdogan by doing so.

Now it's too late though, we dont have a place in the EU (Present tense) as long as he is ruling. Disgusting policies and going backwards. (Tho worry not, our shining youngesters will battle and get back Ataturk's modern&democratic country)

To the point, 'back then', we did everything we could. Turkey in 2004 was much better and stronger country than other current members like Romania, Bulgaria or Poland."

kaerin said:

Since the diccussion evolved to EU-Turkey membership stuff, wanna copy my post from another thread for the record.

"Look, I am a secular Turk and you may not find anybody that despises and loathes Erdogan more than me. He is damaging my country ever day every second.

He wouldnt have had this MUCH power and this many excuses if European Union treated Turkish people fair. We deserved (past tense) to be a member more than Romania or Bulgaria. Come on, just have a walk in Istanbul, then Sofia and Bucharest. (I love those cities too, no offence)

EU didn't punish Erdogan, but Turkish people (at least %45 of them being secular and having a western life style) and empowered Erdogan by doing so.

Now it's too late though, we dont have a place in the EU (Present tense) as long as he is ruling. Disgusting policies and going backwards. (Tho worry not, our shining youngesters will battle and get back Ataturk's modern&democratic country)

To the point, 'back then', we did everything we could. Turkey in 2004 was much better and stronger country than other current members like Romania, Bulgaria or Poland."

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I share into many (heck, if not most) of your above stated sentiments.

Where I still believe that it's a matter of argument whether the EU, by constantly turning away from Turkey (or at least stalling in its membership talks) thus empowered Erdogan, or whether Erdogan actually used the issue to cement and then increase his popularity, in the end result the self aggrandizing political games of people and parties always hurt those most that do not at all deserve it.

It's like sanctions imposed for whatever reasons on a state hitting the people first and foremost and bothering those in power not in the least.

I've always found Turkey a most pleasing place to visit and the people, generally, to be most pleasant. The current atmosphere towards it is extremely sad and one can only hope that the mutual provocations will at some time be given the significance that they actually deserve.

By which I mean that whatever little or big fart is let loose by the talking heads on either side of the Bosporus in the opposite direction deserves little more than dismissal. This current cycle of "I can top your latest insult any time with my follow-up" is truly idiotic, both by the politicos and the respective media trying to outdo each other.

Hopefully hysteria in parts of the EU will simmer down more, once the elections in Austria and (specifically) Germany have run their course.

Peter King said:

Another reason why the Turks have no place in the EU, now the religious dictatorship under Erdogan further dismantles the secular history of Turkey by scrapping the teaching of the evolution theory from school books under University grades.

The religious idiotic overlords in Turkey are of the opinion that the poor ickle brain limited religious little minds cannot handle the evolution theory.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-education-curriculum-idUSKBN1A31EZ


Well we do not need countries like that in the EU.

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Well.....evolution is debatable. Macroevolution, that is.
I don't think they banned people from reading up on evolution on their own, did they.


....as long as they don't impose it on EU, or on you.....why would it matter to you if evolution is taken out of their school books?

You're imposing yours on them! Aren't you being far more dictatorial than the Turkish government?
Do it my way - believe as I do - or else you're not welcome to join?

I sure hope that isn't the reason why EU wants to keep Turkey out.

They also want to force schools to have a prayer room in their schools.

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:roll:

We provide prayer rooms here....so, why not in a Muslim country of all places?

Complain when they start herding people against their will into these prayer rooms!

tosca1 said:

Well.....~ (rest edited for brevity)

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If you have no understanding of the Turkey-EU political issue (with Turkey still vying for membership) that this thread is about, maybe you should keep out of it altogether.

Trying to turn it into a "evolution vs. creation" matter or "school prayer rooms or not" has absolutely nothing to do with the topic here.

Which is about disparity of curriculum, incompatibilty of socio-political values and anything else which might or might not speak for (or against) Turkish membership in the EU.

Plenty of sub-forums at "your end of the pond" more suited for raising issues as unrelated to this thread and sub forum as the one you're trying to derail this into.

Turkey under Erdogan is currently ill-suited for EU membership for myriad reasons. I'm even beginning to wonder about its NATO suitability.

PeteEU said:

Same goes for every country who ever committed massacres yea?

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Just out of curiosity, has Belgium ever done a mea culpa over the Congo? The Netherlands over Indonesia? This list could get very long.

Evolution is not a "theory."

Chagos said:

If you have no understanding of the Turkey-EU political issue (with Turkey still vying for membership) that this thread is about, maybe you should keep out of it altogether.

Trying to turn it into a "evolution vs. creation" matter or "school prayer rooms or not" has absolutely nothing to do with the topic here.

Which is about disparity of curriculum, incompatibilty of socio-political values and anything else which might or might not speak for (or against) Turkish membership in the EU.

Plenty of sub-forums at "your end of the pond" more suited for raising issues as unrelated to this thread and sub forum as the one you're trying to derail this into.

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Perhaps you should read my post again. Looks like some things went sailing over your head. :lamo



Ranting about dictatorship......:roll:

Another reason why the Turks have no place in the EU, now the religious dictatorship under Erdogan further dismantles the secular history of Turkey by scrapping the teaching of the evolution theory from school books under University grades.

The religious idiotic overlords in Turkey are of the opinion that the poor ickle brain limited religious little minds cannot handle the evolution theory.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1A31EZ

They also want to force schools to have a prayer room in their schools.

Well we do not need countries like that in the EU.

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Maybe, you don't know what dictatorship is.....since you don't even recognize it. :mrgreen:

stevecanuck said:

Just out of curiosity, has Belgium ever done a mea culpa over the Congo?

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Well that is a tricky one, as Belgium did not have control over the Congo during the atrocities there. The Congo was the private holdings of the Belgian king and the atrocities were done by mercenaries. In fact, it was the Belgian state that took away the holdings from the King and stopped the atrocities, so as I said it is a tricky one. If anything, the Congo hell is a good example of why private unchecked ownership can be a serious problem.

The Netherlands over Indonesia? This list could get very long.

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Yes the list could get very long, and in most cases there has been a "we are sorry". I know my own country has said so, several times.

tosca1 said:

Perhaps you should read my post again. Looks like some things went sailing over your head. :lamo



Ranting about dictatorship......:roll:




Maybe, you don't know what dictatorship is.....since you don't even recognize it. :mrgreen:

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as pointed out, having little to no understanding of the issue, you're out of your depth here.

This story is just another small example showing that many in the Islamic world are trying to turn things around and get back to the basics as practiced by Mohamed and the first Muslims. Islam is experiencing a reawakening, which is very bad news for the rest of us.

Does anyone know if Malta teaches evolution in school? They're an EU member, but are quite catholic.

stevecanuck said:

Does anyone know if Malta teaches evolution in school? They're an EU member, but are quite catholic.

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Why wouldn't they? I went to catholic school from K-12 and we were taught the science of evolution. The Pope has often talked about how the church agrees with the science of evolution.

beefheart said:

Why wouldn't they? I went to catholic school from K-12 and we were taught the science of evolution. The Pope has often talked about how the church agrees with the science of evolution.

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I just asked my grandchildren who go to Catholic school, and they told me the school only teaches evolution in terms of God driving it.

The fact of Malta being fairly catholic is the precise reason why evolution is taught there.

One shouldn't get confused over individual (Christian) religions' takes, the most ardent enemies of evolution being taught in schools are the nuttier evangelists, North American style.

Doesn't mean we don't have them over here but they don't get to dictate the curriculum.

More interesting example (possibly) is staunchly Catholic Poland, where a fervently nationalistic government is currently attempting to push evolution to the fringe of biology classes. No idea how that serves nationalist ambitions but seeing how the teaching is not scrapped altogether and seeing there are more important Polish shenanigans to get excited over, the development is not top of the list with other EU countries right now.

Frankly, neither is Turkey's current scrapping of it, there are bigger fish to fry there right now.

The label of dictatorship is however quite apt in that Turkey is certainly going towards one (if not already having reached that stage).

The would-be reborn Ottoman Sultan will use anything to cement his position and religion (here Islam, of course) always provides a good glue. He's repeatedly spoken of raising a pious generation since the secular society he wishes to abolish would have people thinking for themselves.

Can't have that.

Chagos said:

The fact of Malta being fairly catholic is the precise reason why evolution is taught there.

One shouldn't get confused over individual (Christian) religions' takes, the most ardent enemies of evolution being taught in schools are the nuttier evangelists, North American style.

Doesn't mean we don't have them over here but they don't get to dictate the curriculum.

More interesting example (possibly) is staunchly Catholic Poland, where a fervently nationalistic government is currently attempting to push evolution to the fringe of biology classes. No idea how that serves nationalist ambitions but seeing how the teaching is not scrapped altogether and seeing there are more important Polish shenanigans to get excited over, the development is not top of the list with other EU countries right now.

Frankly, neither is Turkey's current scrapping of it, there are bigger fish to fry there right now.

The label of dictatorship is however quite apt in that Turkey is certainly going towards one (if not already having reached that stage).

The would-be reborn Ottoman Sultan will use anything to cement his position and religion (here Islam, of course) always provides a good glue. He's repeatedly spoken of raising a pious generation since the secular society he wishes to abolish would have people thinking for themselves.

Can't have that.

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Islam is not just the glue, but the very reason for the destruction of secularism. Islam does NOT tolerate opposition.

Yada, yada, yada.

As always, the same simplistics addressing issues (here Turkey) far more complex.