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Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word [W:68]

Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
I guess one can take the position that language police is the way to go and allowing the state to forbid the expressions that a majority dislikes. That is, of course, the essence of fascism and actually much worse in regard to political systems than calling a spade a spade.
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Opposing racism is fascist? What is that, racist cute?

But you should think about hustory in historical contexts. What you might feel highly insulting or even a crime against humanity might be in a context you do not know quite normal, justified or even the optimum behavior.
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Excuse for cowardly scumbaggery.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
I guess one can take the position that language police is the way to go and allowing the state to forbid the expressions that a majority dislikes. That is, of course, the essence of fascism and actually much worse in regard to political systems than calling a spade a spade.

But you should think about hustory in historical contexts. What you might feel highly insulting or even a crime against humanity might be in a context you do not know quite normal, justified or even the optimum behavior.
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OK. Let's play your 'historical context ' game. Was it, historically speaking a term of endearment? If not, in your view what was the meaning of the term?
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
How would you interpret a Black talking if her family as niggers?

Ps: You really don't know much about etymology, do you. That might explain the bigotry of you reply.
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Try re-reading what you wrote,.. cause I have no idea what you are talking about ... "talking if"?
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
Of course it doesn't mean that. And in a purely private organization, I would have no problem with the action whatever. On the other hand, we are very close to government in this case and we should not really want processes of state to forbid the expression of opinion, unless we are oblivious of the way dictatorships and mob rule tend to work.
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How exactly is a political party not a private organization that can choose its members? I know in the US you register as a D or R but in other countries you must actually sign up and pay money to join a political party and you are subject to the rules of the party. She is not being kicked by being from being an MP just from her party which in all likelihood will force her to resign.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
How exactly is a political party not a private organization that can choose its members? I know in the US you register as a D or R but in other countries you must actually sign up and pay money to join a political party and you are subject to the rules of the party. She is not being kicked by being from being an MP just from her party which in all likelihood will force her to resign.
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I can't see it going that far, as May needs to cling onto every Conservative MP with every ounce strength. She'll over look almost anything, IMO.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
How exactly is a political party not a private organization that can choose its members? I know in the US you register as a D or R but in other countries you must actually sign up and pay money to join a political party and you are subject to the rules of the party. She is not being kicked by being from being an MP just from her party which in all likelihood will force her to resign.
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Wont happen. The government has a 9 seat majority... 8 if she is kicked out of the party. If anything they could force her to resign, BUT that would put the seat up for a by-election and in the current climate nothing is safe. Yes she won by a 17k votes, so it is under normal circumstances a very safe seat, but...

Funny fact, Wikipedia has her seat already as being held by an "independent"... guess the Tory media branch were quickly out to change it to that .. She is still a conservative member of parliament.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
I guess one can take the position that language police is the way to go and allowing the state to forbid the expressions that a majority dislikes. That is, of course, the essence of fascism and actually much worse in regard to political systems than calling a spade a spade.

But you should think about hustory in historical contexts. What you might feel highly insulting or even a crime against humanity might be in a context you do not know quite normal, justified or even the optimum behavior.
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You seem to be quite upset that you can't use the word nigger anymore. Why?
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Aristaeus said:
You seem to be quite upset that you can't use the word nigger anymore. Why?
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Wrong. But I'm sure you know that. What I do find rather bad is that citizens of the US would condone repression of the expression of any opinion. That is about as destructive to the country as any peacetime behavior can be.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
Wrong. But I'm sure you know that. What I do find rather bad is that citizens of the US would condone repression of the expression of any opinion. That is about as destructive to the country as any peacetime behavior can be.
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Please tell us why a private organization taking action a member of that organization is a repression of speech.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
Wrong. But I'm sure you know that. What I do find rather bad is that citizens of the US would condone repression of the expression of any opinion. That is about as destructive to the country as any peacetime behavior can be.
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She is free to say what she likes, she just isn't free from the consequences of doing so; we also all have the right to free speech to challenge ideas conveyed through pejorative language.

Regardless of that, the organisations she works for have pretty clear rules regarding this kind of language and she is also in a position of public responsibility.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
Please tell us why a private organization taking action a member of that organization is a repression of speech.
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I did just that earlier in the thread. In short words, the "private organization" of which you speak is in governmental power, the person enforcing in government and the person, whose expression is being repressed is a politician. This might mean technically that the organization on whose paper the repressive missive was written was not the state. It does not mean that the repression is not by and of the government. This is especially noteworthy in a country without a formal constitution, where precedent is even more important than in other forms organization.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

William Rea said:
She is free to say what she likes, she just isn't free from the consequences of doing so; we also all have the right to free speech to challenge ideas conveyed through pejorative language.

Regardless of that, the organisations she works for have pretty clear rules regarding this kind of language and she is also in a position of public responsibility.
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Maybe the organizations have such clear rules on the use of the word. But nobody has argued that nor shown the wording. But the problem would remain and possibly be even worse. IT would mean that the persons running the country were formally bound to restrict the expression of their opinions. To argue that the woman is free, because she is not in chains is somewhat disingenuous, don't you think?
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
I did just that earlier in the thread. In short words, the "private organization" of which you speak is in governmental power, the person enforcing in government and the person, whose expression is being repressed is a politician. This might mean technically that the organization on whose paper the repressive missive was written was not the state. It does not mean that the repression is not by and of the government. This is especially noteworthy in a country without a formal constitution, where precedent is even more important than in other forms organization.
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The Conservative Party does not have governmental power, the leader and certain members of the Conservative party do make up the government but the Conservative party itself is not the government. So if a Republican member of congress started saying similar things the Republicans could not suspend him due to your strange logic? May is the leader of government but also the leader of the private organization, they are two separate roles.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
The Conservative Party does not have governmental power, the leader and certain members of the Conservative party do make up the government but the Conservative party itself is not the government. So if a Republican member of congress started saying similar things the Republicans could not suspend him due to your strange logic? May is the leader of government but also the leader of the private organization, they are two separate roles.
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There you point to one of the greatest problems of the systems of parliamentary government. The conflicts of interest muddy the waters and queer the democratic and legal processes.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

:roll:
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
There you point to one of the greatest problems of the systems of parliamentary government. The conflicts of interest muddy the waters and queer the democratic and legal processes.
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In what way is it a problem? You can have two different roles, she is suspending her from the party, not government in any way, she is being suspended from the organization. It has nothing to do with either's role in government but as leader and member of the Conservatives.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
In what way is it a problem? You can have two different roles, she is suspending her from the party, not government in any way, she is being suspended from the organization. It has nothing to do with either's role in government but as leader and member of the Conservatives.
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Look up conflict of interest in political systems and management theory.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
Look up conflict of interest in political systems and management theory.
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How exactly is it conflict of interest? What interest? They are perfectly compatible. Suspending of this MP from the party has nothing to do with the governing responsibilities of May.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Snazzy said:
Yet in the US it's used without regard amongst black people. Rappers being the main culprits, to the point that pretty much every word that comes out of their mouth is n*****.

You hear it constantly in rap music, and in main stream Hollywood films.

If it's ok for black people only to use the word, then isn't that being racist against white people?..... Just a thought.
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No, it isn't. Perjoratives and racial epithets take on a totally different meaning when they are claimed and taken ownership of by the people they were formerly use to denigrate.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
How exactly is it conflict of interest? What interest? They are perfectly compatible. Suspending of this MP from the party has nothing to do with the governing responsibilities of May.
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You described the simple structure yourself. May has a different mandate in one position than in the other two. These mandates are the interests that conflict. That is why the legislative, executive and judiciary are separated powers and why infirmatiin dissemination should also be separated from government.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

Carjosse said:
How exactly is it conflict of interest? What interest? They are perfectly compatible. Suspending of this MP from the party has nothing to do with the governing responsibilities of May.
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You described the simple structure yourself. May has a different mandate in one position than in the other two. These mandates are the interests that conflict. That is why the legislative, executive and judiciary are separated powers and why infirmatiin dissemination should also be separated from government.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
You described the simple structure yourself. May has a different mandate in one position than in the other two. These mandates are the interests that conflict. That is why the legislative, executive and judiciary are separated powers and why infirmatiin dissemination should also be separated from government.
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You are talking complete and utter tosh! Stop attempting to dig yourself out of your original position.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
Look up conflict of interest in political systems and management theory.
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He doesn't need to look that up, because it's irrelevant.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

gunner said:
He doesn't need to look that up, because it's irrelevant.
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In that case, I understand how you reached such an uninformed opinion.
 
Re: Theresa May orders Tory MP to be suspended after using N-word

joG said:
Oh, but it was. And saying it wasn't is typical of Newspeak enthusiasts. But it was a quite normal and acceptable turn of the tongue. It wasn't till the 20th century that it began to fall from grace and finally fell prey to Politically Correct Speak in its latter half. You just like to make up your own etymology like so many other things. What surprises me ist that you seem so often to believe them. ;)
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Should a politician get away with calling Jews 'kikes'? What about 'chink', should a politician get away with calling Chinese 'chinks'? Remember, we're not talking about your cousin Cletus, we're talking about someone who sought and was elected to public office, to represent their constituents in the federal government. Whatever we think about 'PC', we have to hold those folks to a higher standard than we do your cousin Cletus.
 
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