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In honour of our ally, Great Britain, upon their recent success...

Infinite Chaos said:
I supported the idea a few years ago but now am not so sure, we need more frigates, destroyers or submarines and other sea going ships more than we need this carrier. She's going to be a huge target if we don't have enough escorts to protect her.

Still, lovely to see a bright shiny new toy for our navy to play with - we are an island and an old sea going nation and it would have been foolish to abandon naval development.
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Yeah, we never know if those Argies won't make another pitch for the Malvinas (excuse me, the Falklands, of course).

And what with those frog leg eaters having decreased the demand for ferry vessels by digging themselves underground all the way to Dover, the ship building industry truly needed that shot in the arm.

Now, to sing in tune with the apparent Nelson nostalgia, we just need to pick up on the previous suggestion of re-animating the press gang system.

Seagoing nation my bloody foot, when we need a bunch of ex-colonials to take (and keep) the Americas cup from the Yanks.:2razz:

Relax, this is just ole grumpy with the still tingling funny bone suffering (heck, enjoying) a sarcasm attack.:mrgreen:
 
This is the political equivalent of a penis enlarger gone wrong. Buying a new Porche because of a midlife crisis, only to realise that the wheels wont be available for another 3 years.

Not only was it over budget, but they ordered 2 and have to mothball one before it is finished.... /clap.

They also threw their lot in with the Americans on planes, that dont work and wont be delivered for years... oh and did I mention are expensive as hell.

So what have they got out of it? An expensive vanity project to fly helicopters off... congrats. But it does look cool..

Question is if the scandal will expand during sea trials and follow some of the American vanity projects that break down by just looking at them.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Wow. That's one hell of a target
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That is, what I have always thought about airplane carriers. But they are quite good at projecting power at large distance against most counties and under most conditions. So unless you are talking Amageddon. ...
 
PeteEU said:
This is the political equivalent of a penis enlarger gone wrong. Buying a new Porche because of a midlife crisis, only to realise that the wheels wont be available for another 3 years.

Not only was it over budget, but they ordered 2 and have to mothball one before it is finished.... /clap.

They also threw their lot in with the Americans on planes, that dont work and wont be delivered for years... oh and did I mention are expensive as hell.

So what have they got out of it? An expensive vanity project to fly helicopters off... congrats. But it does look cool..

Question is if the scandal will expand during sea trials and follow some of the American vanity projects that break down by just looking at them.
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Yep. That describes the level of understanding often encountered in poorly informed left leaning descendents of 1968er free riding culture. You did a very good job of demonstrating the simplistic method of populism that generally works on continental Europe.
 
HMS Queen Elizabeth undergoing sea-trials, enjoying the balmy Scottish summer.

DDb1Bk9XcAEs61g.jpg:large
 
Chagos said:
~ Relax, this is just ole grumpy with the still tingling funny bone suffering (heck, enjoying) a sarcasm attack.:mrgreen:
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So I won't bother answering?

Anyhow, you can't complain about the America's cup as Sir Ben Ainslie was part of the American team which was captained by an Australian skipper. You make a fundamental mistake if you think many of the America's cups teams are manned by single nationalities belonging to the nationalities of yachts they compete for.
 
PeteEU said:
This is the political equivalent of a penis enlarger gone wrong. Buying a new Porche because of a midlife crisis, only to realise that the wheels wont be available for another 3 years.

Not only was it over budget, but they ordered 2 and have to mothball one before it is finished.... /clap.

They also threw their lot in with the Americans on planes, that dont work and wont be delivered for years... oh and did I mention are expensive as hell.

So what have they got out of it? An expensive vanity project to fly helicopters off... congrats. But it does look cool..

Question is if the scandal will expand during sea trials and follow some of the American vanity projects that break down by just looking at them.
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Sorry to say, you are right. Look how fortuitous the French decision to build their own aircraft was. The Rafale exists now and is operational now.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
So I won't bother answering?

Anyhow, you can't complain about the America's cup as Sir Ben Ainslie was part of the American team which was captained by an Australian skipper. You make a fundamental mistake if you think many of the America's cups teams are manned by single nationalities belonging to the nationalities of yachts they compete for.
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Actually I never thought anything of the kind but, seeing how you appear not particularly receptive to any joshing of late, we can easily let the whole thing rest and no offence intended.

Meanwhile I hope that whatever it is that's souring your normally always perceivable sense of humour, it'll find settling soon.

Good luck.
 
Chagos said:
I think that telling of the running of XP is a ruse.

They intentionally leaked that so that any sinister power will hold it to be disinformation (deeming XP to simply be impossible) and spend large amounts of money and manpower on attacking everything more sophisticated, and all to no avail.

Meanwhile she'll actually run on XP but nobody's going to get wise to it.

Pure cunning, I tellsya! :mrgreen:
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it is nothing new in the UK using outdated O/S ... Royal Mail's sorting machines run on MS-DOS ... Royal Mail bought them 2nd hand from the dutch around 2005 ... they were £150 million cheaper than the latest Windows 2000 based machines at the time
 
Godric1970 said:
it is nothing new in the UK using outdated O/S ... Royal Mail's sorting machines run on MS-DOS ... Royal Mail bought them 2nd hand from the dutch around 2005 ... they were £150 million cheaper than the latest Windows 2000 based machines at the time
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Its not even a UK only problem sadly. Last I heard, the US nuclear weapons system runs on 5 1/4 discs.... god knows what outdated OS... It is a problem across public and private companies, that refuse to spend the money to keep their IT infrastructure up to date and safe.
 
Manc Skipper said:
HMS Queen Elizabeth undergoing sea-trials, enjoying the balmy Scottish summer.

DDb1Bk9XcAEs61g.jpg:large
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It is a pretty ship, but frankly poorly designed imo. The UK is totally dependent on vertical take off aircraft with that ship, which means higher expense.

Had they built a "normal" type aircraft carrier, then they could have easily bought quickly existing aircraft that could be used. Now they have to wait for speciality aircraft that are expensive and not easily replaced.
 
PeteEU said:
It is a pretty ship, but frankly poorly designed imo. The UK is totally dependent on vertical take off aircraft with that ship, which means higher expense.

Had they built a "normal" type aircraft carrier, then they could have easily bought quickly existing aircraft that could be used. Now they have to wait for speciality aircraft that are expensive and not easily replaced.
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The existing aircraft that are getting killed by the F-35's ? Talk to a few American Navy F-18 pilots and ask them about going up against the Scandinavian F-35's before you make that comment again. Our F-18's just could compete with them. My son in law talks to pilots every single day as he is the Senior Chief in charge of the crews that support the jets over at Oceana.

I think the British got it right.
 
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Chagos said:
Actually I never thought anything of the kind but, seeing how you appear not particularly receptive to any joshing of late, we can easily let the whole thing rest and no offence intended.

Meanwhile I hope that whatever it is that's souring your normally always perceivable sense of humour, it'll find settling soon.

Good luck.
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The funeral is soon.

The guy was Royal Highland Regiment (Black Watch) 30 years ago and a really good friend. He was like a 2nd dad to my eldest boy.

Think I'll take some time out from the forum.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The existing aircraft that are getting killed by the F-35's ? Talk to a few American Navy F-18 pilots and ask them about going up against the Scandinavian F-35's before you make that comment again.
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Scandinavia does not have any F35s in Scandinavia last I looked. Norway has a couple of F35s, but they are by contract required to stay in the US for training. Denmark has not gotten its F35s yet, and has to wait a couple of years.

Our F-18's just could compete with them. My son in law talks to pilots every single day as he is the Senior Chief in charge of the crews that support the jets over at Oceana.

I think the British got it right.
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The F35 is a death trap and overpriced. The US just grounded a whole fleet because the pilots were suffocating... again.

And the British bought a special version of the F35, which is not even finished and plagued with problems on TOP of the many problems of the normal F35

Regardless.. The British wont get planes for their new expensive good looking aircraft carrier for at least another 2 to 3 years, barring no more delays. Had they gone a more traditional aircraft carrier, then they could have gotten planes immediately and not be the laughing stock they are with this white whale of a boat.
 
PeteEU said:
Scandinavia does not have any F35s in Scandinavia last I looked. Norway has a couple of F35s, but they are by contract required to stay in the US for training. Denmark has not gotten its F35s yet, and has to wait a couple of years.



The F35 is a death trap and overpriced. The US just grounded a whole fleet because the pilots were suffocating... again.

And the British bought a special version of the F35, which is not even finished and plagued with problems on TOP of the many problems of the normal F35

Regardless.. The British wont get planes for their new expensive good looking aircraft carrier for at least another 2 to 3 years, barring no more delays. Had they gone a more traditional aircraft carrier, then they could have gotten planes immediately and not be the laughing stock they are with this white whale of a boat.
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There are a few RDAF pilots in phases of training and already flying the F-35. I routinely saw couple of them myself at Oceana hanging out with American pilots over lunch at the golf course. My son in law was there during the Scandinavian testing in Arizona in 2016. The F-35's were wrecking havoc on the F-18 pilots. There are also RDAF pilots at Oceana and Edwards as we sit here typing back and forth.

The oxygen/hypoxia problems have happened with quite a few jets before. The F-35 has been a political football, and every imaginable problem that comes up is magnified a 100 times over.

The F-35 is the future.
 
RetiredUSN said:
There are a few RDAF pilots in phases of training and already flying the F-35. I routinely saw couple of them myself at Oceana hanging out with American pilots over lunch at the golf course. My son in law was there during the Scandinavian testing in Arizona in 2016. The F-35's were wrecking havoc on the F-18 pilots. There are also RDAF pilots at Oceana and Edwards as we sit here typing back and forth.

The oxygen/hypoxia problems have happened with quite a few jets before. The F-35 has been a political football, and every imaginable problem that comes up is magnified a 100 times over.
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Again, just because the pilots are training, does not mean that the countries in question have received the planes at home and will any time soon. Each country has to leave X amount of their purchase in the US at ALL TIMES for supposed training. In Denmarks case, it is 1/5 of all planes bought, have to stay in the US... on top of that, it is expected that only 1/3 of the the aircraft bought will be ready to fly at one time... that is one hell of an expensive paper weight.

The F-35 is the future.
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Maybe, but...an expensive one with a lot of conditions attached for those buying them.
 
PeteEU said:
Again, just because the pilots are training, does not mean that the countries in question have received the planes at home and will any time soon. Each country has to leave X amount of their purchase in the US at ALL TIMES for supposed training. In Denmarks case, it is 1/5 of all planes bought, have to stay in the US... on top of that, it is expected that only 1/3 of the the aircraft bought will be ready to fly at one time... that is one hell of an expensive paper weight.



Maybe, but...an expensive one with a lot of conditions attached for those buying them.
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So, you would rather have a inferior Hornet?
 
PeteEU said:
Rather have something that actually works and does not bankrupt my nation for a vanity project.
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I do laugh at the repetitive platitudes that role off your tongue, sometimes :lol:

Best stick to IT I'd say.....
 
PeteEU said:
Rather have something that actually works and does not bankrupt my nation for a vanity project.
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We're already too broke to provide safe homes for our poor, what's three billion for a big boat, when ten Irish MP votes cost a third of that?
 
Manc Skipper said:
We're already too broke to provide safe homes for our poor, what's three billion for a big boat, when ten Irish MP votes cost a third of that?
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At least you can house the newly homeless on this big floating barge, our F35s are stuck in the US at the moment, where the Danish taxpayer is paying the US to "keep an eye on them". Great defence plan eh?
 
RetiredUSN said:
The existing aircraft that are getting killed by the F-35's ? Talk to a few American Navy F-18 pilots and ask them about going up against the Scandinavian F-35's before you make that comment again. Our F-18's just could compete with them. My son in law talks to pilots every single day as he is the Senior Chief in charge of the crews that support the jets over at Oceana.

I think the British got it right.
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Just a few questions

I expect the F35s in question were F35A's not the B or C model

Which version of F18s were involved, the latest and greatest or older less updated models

Finally
Our F-18's just could compete with them.
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From that statement I would say it was about a 50/50 exchange (I expect the F`18 pilots had vastly more experience in the F18 than the F35 pilots had in the F35

The F35B I expect will perform the same tasks at a lower capability that the F35A and B models. If I am not mistaken the B model also is more restricted on what weapons it can carry internally due to the a smaller holding bay and that all F35's are limited to 2 missiles/bombs being held internally. Anything more and they have to go external which means the stealth is pretty much abandoned
 
Manc Skipper said:
We're already too broke to provide safe homes for our poor, what's three billion for a big boat, when ten Irish MP votes cost a third of that?
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hey, this is an US Forum. They wount understand you. The poor are poor because they are too lazy to work hard and buy a house themselves. Own fault. ;) :p
 
Cuts to police, cuts to NHS, and 3bn quid spent on this.

 
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