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The 2017 French Presidential Election

Chagos said:
Did indeed.

But then, her party needing it as badly as it does, they'll accept anything that's on offer. And offer whatever it takes in return.
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But generally accepting large sums (and loans) of money from a third party leads to debt and corruption. Le Pen can feel that she should repay Russia by putting up favorable terms for Russia. Yet then again political backstabbing isn't impossible.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Le Pen is a rightest/nationalist in the mode of Wilders and Orban. Le Pen is staunchly pro-Kremlin and opposes the EU and NATO. In 2014, Le Pen/Front Nationale received a loan of €9m from the First Czech Russian Bank, which has links to the Kremlin. Many believe the €9m loan was a reward for Ms. Le Pen's support of the Kremlin's illegal takeover of Crimea. Le Pen/Front Nationale applied to Russian banks for another loan (€32m) in 2016.

At the end of March 2017, Le Pen invoked her European Parliament immunity to avoid questioning by French magistrates investigating the misuse of funds. The European Parliament accuses Le Pen's Front National party of defrauding the organization of €340,000 in fraudulent expenses.

Marine Le Pen: Who's funding France's far right?

French prosecutors seek to lift Le Pen immunity over expenses inquiry
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Just to add:

Marine has had her parliamentary immunity lifted before by the European parliament in 2015 (over investigations of tweeting gruesome images of killings by IS).

No reason it won't also be lifted now.
 
Fritz said:
But generally accepting large sums (and loans) of money from a third party leads to debt and corruption. Le Pen can feel that she should repay Russia by putting up favorable terms for Russia. Yet then again political backstabbing isn't impossible.
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Well, if she actually does NOT make the presidency, there'll have been a bad investment.
 
Carjosse said:
He used to be a member of the Socialist party but has since left the party. He is a centrist now and his message of unity seems pretty clear to me, and is one I feel France and Europe needs.
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'Unity' - to do what exactly? Macron's 'message' is vague and confused. Deliberately so it seems, so anyone might believe it accords with their wishes. If the French elect this chancer they will regret it
 
coldjoint said:
I am not ignorant of LePen's ideas for France.
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There isn't any item on Europe in general and any of its individual countries in particular that you have not shown yourself as being totally ignorant of.
Lots of people agree with her.
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...........and that ignorance appears to extend to logic and the fallacies (here: argumentum ad populum) one can commit in attempting its use.
 
Chagos said:
"the new French risk", eh?

Well, considering all the other mugshots, I guess one might as well.:lol:
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They are all risks: Le Pen's demagoguery; Fillon's corruption; Macron's inexperience; Hamon's associations with the current régime. Sure, Mélenchon's a risk, but he has ministerial experience, he's not from the political establishment, he's not a xenophobe and he's neither a Euro-hater nor a Euro-lover. Sure the EU, IMF and WB will hate him, and so will Le Pen's neo-Nazi supporters but what France doesn't need is either another dose of same-old same-old, nor an injection of right-wing populism. He's impressive, even if he is from the Trottier end of the left, which isn't much to my taste.
 
Andalublue said:
They are all risks: Le Pen's demagoguery; Fillon's corruption; Macron's inexperience; Hamon's associations with the current régime. Sure, Mélenchon's a risk, but he has ministerial experience, he's not from the political establishment, he's not a xenophobe and he's neither a Euro-hater nor a Euro-lover. Sure the EU, IMF and WB will hate him, and so will Le Pen's neo-Nazi supporters but what France doesn't need is either another dose of same-old same-old, nor an injection of right-wing populism. He's impressive, even if he is from the Trottier end of the left, which isn't much to my taste.
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Ah, for the times when one could actually know anyone's position and either support or oppose it, eh?

With this lot, I wouldn't even believe Marine on what she's going to do (if she ever gets to do anything), except that her more obvious history is more unpalatable than that of all the others.
 
Andalublue said:
They are all risks: Le Pen's demagoguery; Fillon's corruption; Macron's inexperience; Hamon's associations with the current régime. Sure, Mélenchon's a risk, but he has ministerial experience, he's not from the political establishment, he's not a xenophobe and he's neither a Euro-hater nor a Euro-lover. Sure the EU, IMF and WB will hate him, and so will Le Pen's neo-Nazi supporters but what France doesn't need is either another dose of same-old same-old, nor an injection of right-wing populism. He's impressive, even if he is from the Trottier end of the left, which isn't much to my taste.
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I think that is why a lot of people are jumping behind Macron, he has mass appeal and appears to be the closet thing France is going to get to true centrist. Also Macron actually has a chance of wining.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Le Pen is a rightest/nationalist in the mode of Wilders and Orban. Le Pen is staunchly pro-Kremlin and opposes the EU and NATO. In 2014, Le Pen/Front Nationale received a loan of €9m from the First Czech Russian Bank, which has links to the Kremlin. ~
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There are some convoluted links in many Western parties going back to Putin, even Farage has expressed admiration for him. I can only hope European electors continue to vote into power, parties other than those with links and ties to Putin.

I for one am not ready to put aside years of mistrust for Soviet or Russian leaders who pretty much wanted to destroy the west for the last 60 years.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
There are some convoluted links in many Western parties going back to Putin, even Farage has expressed admiration for him. I can only hope European electors continue to vote into power, parties other than those with links and ties to Putin.

I for one am not ready to put aside years of mistrust for Soviet or Russian leaders who pretty much wanted to destroy the west for the last 60 years.
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Works for the Russian voters just as well. Except for the parameters being, of course, totally the other way round.

Just to mention it but that still doesn't make me write home about anyone desiring to align themselves with Putin & Co.
 
Chagos said:
Works for the Russian voters just as well. Except for the parameters being, of course, totally the other way round ~
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Obviously, there seems to be a liking for his hard man image. He has or is rebuilding Russian self-image but what all these people who love Putin need to remember is Putin is doing what is best for Putin and his version of Russia. When he disrupts western elections, it's not for our benefit. When he disrupts western economic activity it's not for our benefit.

Also, those fools aligning themselves with him and taking his roubles should do well to remember when the chips are down, his plans are for Russia's benefit - not Le Pen's France or Wilder's Holland or Farage's Britain.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Obviously, there seems to be a liking for his hard man image. He has or is rebuilding Russian self-image but what all these people who love Putin need to remember is Putin is doing what is best for Putin and his version of Russia. When he disrupts western elections, it's not for our benefit. When he disrupts western economic activity it's not for our benefit.

Also, those fools aligning themselves with him and taking his roubles should do well to remember when the chips are down, his plans are for Russia's benefit - not Le Pen's France or Wilder's Holland or Farage's Britain.
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Of course not, but what all those 'fools' are identifying is an appeal to populist nationalism that they see Putin exemplifying in the way they wish their own demagogues could do.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Obviously, there seems to be a liking for his hard man image. He has or is rebuilding Russian self-image but what all these people who love Putin need to remember is Putin is doing what is best for Putin and his version of Russia. When he disrupts western elections, it's not for our benefit. When he disrupts western economic activity it's not for our benefit.

Also, those fools aligning themselves with him and taking his roubles should do well to remember when the chips are down, his plans are for Russia's benefit - not Le Pen's France or Wilder's Holland or Farage's Britain.
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Where the Russian people will hardly be able to remember what they don't know (or choose not to), I agree with everything you say regarding Putin's significance for Europe (even including the fools therein).
 
Carjosse said:
I think that is why a lot of people are jumping behind Macron, he has mass appeal and appears to be the closet thing France is going to get to true centrist. Also Macron actually has a chance of wining.
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I think you exaggerate the appeal of the middle a bit. It's the political centre that is seen as the architect of the current crises - economic policies that have led to mass unemployment and declining living standards; the crisis in the EU and the lack of accountability; the failure of national and NATO policies in the Middle East giving rise to the migration crisis; and so on. People are moving towards the far right and far left because of the failure of the centre, so I'm not sure that Macron is going to be seen as the 'anyone but Marine' candidate. You can oppose the Front National just as effectively by voting Mélenchon instead of Macron, added to which, you actually force a change to the current failing status quo.
 
Andalublue said:
I think you exaggerate the appeal of the middle a bit. It's the political centre that is seen as the architect of the current crises - economic policies that have led to mass unemployment and declining living standards; the crisis in the EU and the lack of accountability; the failure of national and NATO policies in the Middle East giving rise to the migration crisis; and so on. People are moving towards the far right and far left because of the failure of the centre, so I'm not sure that Macron is going to be seen as the 'anyone but Marine' candidate. You can oppose the Front National just as effectively by voting Mélenchon instead of Macron, added to which, you actually force a change to the current failing status quo.
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The French are thrashing around a little too much like dying fish, with still no solution to their predicament in sight....is this a fair statement would you say?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The French are thrashing around a little too much like dying fish, with still no solution to their predicament in sight....is this a fair statement would you say?
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Yes, that's a fair statement but I wouldn't single out the French on that score. I think the West in general is thrashing around like a dying fish - the US looks desperate having elected a moron; the UK looks desperate having decided on isolationism in place of cooperation; all those tin-pot neo-Nazi demagogues in Eastern Europe look desperate for choosing nationalistic, populist BS instead of boring consensus democracy. World's gone to **** and sitting in a cess-pool pointing and laughing at someone stepping on a turd is very odd behaviour.
 
Andalublue said:
Yes, that's a fair statement but I wouldn't single out the French on that score. I think the West in general is thrashing around like a dying fish - the US looks desperate having elected a moron; the UK looks desperate having decided on isolationism in place of cooperation; all those tin-pot neo-Nazi demagogues in Eastern Europe look desperate for choosing nationalistic, populist BS instead of boring consensus democracy. World's gone to **** and sitting in a cess-pool pointing and laughing at someone stepping on a turd is very odd behaviour.
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Right....who or what is to blame and how does the crash scene go down?

tyvm
 
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