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Is there an advantage to becoming a minority?

International10 said:
As we all know many western countries only have a couple decades left until whites are a minority (USA 2044, Sweden 2042, with France, Britain, Canada, The Netherlands, and Italy not far behind).

One of the primary justifications you hear for this is "Globilization" Essentially a common answer seems to be "hey this is the world of the future its happening everywhere"

The only problem is that its not happening everywhere. Are China, South Korea, and Japan facing substantial demographic changes? Are people in Japan clamoring for more diversity? Are they upset that Japan is too Japanese? No; What about Mexico, Columbia, and Argentina? Are Mexicans tired of being too Mexican? No; What about Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or the UAE? Is Saudi Arabia sick of all these Arab Sunni Muslims. Are they clamoring for secular white liberals to move to Saudia Arabia to "Diversify"? No.

So it really just seems that one part of the world is facing demographic suicide. Europe and North America.

Since it is obviously not some global phenomenon but rather specifically unique to Europe and North America, I have two questions:

  1. Why is this phenonema uniqe to the west?
  2. Why is it in the interest of native white populations to become minorities?
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Great, baseless nonsense the new coming.

There is not a chance that the Netherlands will become a "white minority" country as you claim.

In 2060, the number of "whites" will be more than two times the number of immigrants (of which also a huge part is white). So your determination when it comes to the Netherlands (and I would assume other countries on that list) is not based on facts but on fiction.
 
Andalublue said:
There's no such thing as 'native white populations' in North America. White people have existed over there for no more than 500 years. As with African-Americans and Hispanics and Asian-Americans, they are immigrant populations.
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Would you consider Turks "native" to Istanbul. They took (what was then Constantinople) over in 1452 only 40 years before Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492. At what point does a population become Native? Native Americans are thought to have crossed into alaska from Siberia roughly 10,000 years ago. Obviously they didn't make it down to places like Virginia or Florida until much later. At what point did they become "Native"?

What about Native white popoulations in Europe? Are they Native whites?
 
Peter King said:
Great, baseless nonsense the new coming.

There is not a chance that the Netherlands will become a "white minority" country as you claim.

In 2060, the number of "whites" will be more than two times the number of immigrants (of which also a huge part is white). So your determination when it comes to the Netherlands (and I would assume other countries on that list) is not based on facts but on fiction.
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Your right I may have been conflating a couple of countries. The Netherlands seems to be a decent amount behind countries like the USA, Sweden, Britain, and France.

It looks like the Netherlands are only about 12% non-europeon. That population being made up of mostly Turks and Morroccans. I didn't find any good projections but you say in 40 years, around 2060, that it will be about one third non-white? So in just a generation or two the non-white population will have tripled its share of the total population. That still seems pretty drastic. Countries like Japan or South Korea, or Saudia Arabia aren't facing anything like that.

Regardless, point of this thread is to openly discuss these kinds of demographic changes. What do you think about the growing non-white population in the Netherlands? Is it a benefit or a negative on Dutch society?
 
International10 said:
Your right I may have been conflating a couple of countries..............~
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By the looks of it, not just a couple
So in just a generation or two the non-white population will have tripled its share of the total population. That still seems pretty drastic. Countries like Japan or South Korea, or Saudia Arabia aren't facing anything like that.............~
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Well, by the parameters you're throwing around in here, all three of them are Asian to start with. I doubt Japanese and Koreans are bothered all that much in their majority but if they care to give it some thought, they'd not consider themselves white anyway. So how there's even any prospect of either Japanese or South Koreans becoming minority white remains mysterious.

As regards Saudi, one can argue what classification of color applies to them (if one is really bored) but of the 33pct foreigners estimated end 2014, 85 pct are from countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc.

I can assure you from personal experience that the majority of Saudis does not consider anyone hailing from there white.

What was the term of earlier on again, confuzzled?
 
International10 said:
~............It looks like the Netherlands are only about 12% non-europeon. That population being made up of mostly Turks and Morroccans. ................~
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aaand, wrong again.

Turks and Moroccans amount to around 5 pct.

Foreigners from Europe make up around 6 pct with Germans being the largest at +2 percent.
 
International10 said:
Your right I may have been conflating a couple of countries. The Netherlands seems to be a decent amount behind countries like the USA, Sweden, Britain, and France.

It looks like the Netherlands are only about 12% non-europeon. That population being made up of mostly Turks and Morroccans. I didn't find any good projections but you say in 40 years, around 2060, that it will be about one third non-white? So in just a generation or two the non-white population will have tripled its share of the total population. That still seems pretty drastic. Countries like Japan or South Korea, or Saudia Arabia aren't facing anything like that.

Regardless, point of this thread is to openly discuss these kinds of demographic changes. What do you think about the growing non-white population in the Netherlands? Is it a benefit or a negative on Dutch society?
Click to expand...

As I said, not 1/3 of non white but 1/3 of people of which 1 parent (at least) was born outside of the Netherlands. That means also the large number of white Europeans who have moved to the Netherlands.

11 thousands Swiss
20 thousands South Africans (a lot of whites)
85 thousands Brits
39 thousand Americans
17 thousand Czech/Slowak
42 thousand Spaniards
60 thousand Russians
20 thousand from former USSR states
25 thousand Portuguese
23 thousands Romanians
150 thousand Polish people
16 thousand Austrians
5,500 New Zealand
82 thousand from the former Yugoslav countries
48 thousand Italians
9 thousand Irish
22 thousand Hungarians
21 thousand Greeks
42 thousand French
5 thousand Fins
360 thousand Germans
16 thousand Canadians
26 thousand Bulgarians
117 thousand Belgians

That means that of the group that does not have both Dutch parents, but is still white is about 1.3 million people. So it will take even much much longer than 2060 (if ever) that white people will be a minority in the Netherlands and the same goes for Muslims, that will never happen that they become the majority in the Netherlands.
 
Chagos said:
aaand, wrong again.

Turks and Moroccans amount to around 5 pct.

Foreigners from Europe make up around 6 pct with Germans being the largest at +2 percent.
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Wow for someone who found this OP "irrelevant" I am very happy to see the amount of energy you are putting into it. Glad to see that I got you so interested.

Unfortunately your analysis of the numbers is patently wrong. Citing "Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek" - in 2013 - 22% of the Dutch population was categorized as "non-dutch." and 9% of (the 22%) were categorized as "western." The remaining 12% were categorized as "non-western" of which about 5% were Morrocan or Turkish.

As for your analysis about Japanese and whether they consider themselves white? I have no idea where you got that from? When I was reffering to Japanese and South Koreans that was just an example of an extremly homogenous population who has long-held strict immigration policies directed precicely at reflecting a public policy aimed at maintaining the demographic status qou.
 
Peter King said:
As I said, not 1/3 of non white but 1/3 of people of which 1 parent (at least) was born outside of the Netherlands. That means also the large number of white Europeans who have moved to the Netherlands.

11 thousands Swiss
20 thousands South Africans (a lot of whites)
85 thousands Brits
39 thousand Americans
17 thousand Czech/Slowak
42 thousand Spaniards
60 thousand Russians
20 thousand from former USSR states
25 thousand Portuguese
23 thousands Romanians
150 thousand Polish people
16 thousand Austrians
5,500 New Zealand
82 thousand from the former Yugoslav countries
48 thousand Italians
9 thousand Irish
22 thousand Hungarians
21 thousand Greeks
42 thousand French
5 thousand Fins
360 thousand Germans
16 thousand Canadians
26 thousand Bulgarians
117 thousand Belgians

That means that of the group that does not have both Dutch parents, but is still white is about 1.3 million people. So it will take even much much longer than 2060 (if ever) that white people will be a minority in the Netherlands and the same goes for Muslims, that will never happen that they become the majority in the Netherlands.
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I totally agree that there are lots of non-dutch westerners in the Netherlands. In fact the Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek classifies about 9% of the population as non-dutch western; However, I really don't know what this has to do with the fact that 12% of the Netherlands is categorized by the Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek as "non-western"

We are clearly looking at different statistics but in the interest of a broader discussion instead of playing a game of gotchya lets make a hypothetical. Lets say in the year 2075 "westerners" were at least pretty close to becoming a minority in the Netherlands. Would that be a good or bad thing?
 
International10 said:
I totally agree that there are lots of non-dutch westerners in the Netherlands. In fact the Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek classifies about 9% of the population as non-dutch western; However, I really don't know what this has to do with the fact that 12% of the Netherlands is categorized by the Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek as "non-western"

We are clearly looking at different statistics but in the interest of a broader discussion instead of playing a game of gotchya lets make a hypothetical. Lets say in the year 2075 "westerners" were at least pretty close to becoming a minority in the Netherlands. Would that be a good or bad thing?
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In 2050 the number of Dutch and Western heritage people will be 71.3% and the number of non Western (which includes hundreds of thousands of black Dutch people from Suriname and the Antilles) will be about 28.7%. In no way will they grow to a majority in 2075, it took them 42 years to go from 19.6 to 28.7 (a growth of 9.1 in 42 years). To grow into a minority of Western heritage people, they would have to grow another 22% or so and that is impossible in 25 years.
 
International10 said:
~..............22% of the Dutch population was categorized as "non-dutch." and 9% of (the 22%) were categorized as "western." The remaining 12% were categorized as "non-western" of which about 5% were Morrocan or Turkish.
.
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still inconsistent with
International10 said:
It looks like the Netherlands are only about 12% non-europeon. That population being made up of mostly Turks and Morroccans.
Click to expand...
less than half (of non-European) hardly being "mostly".
When I was reffering to Japanese and South Koreans that was just an example of an extremly homogenous population who has long-held strict immigration policies directed precicely at reflecting a public policy aimed at maintaining the demographic status qou.
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Nope.

What you said was
So in just a generation or two the non-white population will have tripled its share of the total population. That still seems pretty drastic. Countries like Japan or South Korea, or Saudia Arabia aren't facing anything like that.
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Of course, explaining afterwards what it means is always good. Just that you didn't say it at the time.
 
International10 said:
~.....................We are clearly looking at different statistics but in the interest of a broader discussion instead of playing a game of gotchya ..................~
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In the interest of establishing some credibility for your theses that would put them above mere assumptions, why not do the gotcha thing first?

Presenting premises is all very well but if no corroboration is offered, then changing the goalposts to "let's get on with what I really wanna discuss" is not debate.

Instead you get repeatedly caught out and, when that happens, you want to move on.

Lame.
 
Peter King said:
In 2050 the number of Dutch and Western heritage people will be 71.3% and the number of non Western (which includes hundreds of thousands of black Dutch people from Suriname and the Antilles) will be about 28.7%. ...........~
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AND, just to pick up on this, those 28.7 pct are not all going to be non-whites either.

Non-whites from Surinam and the Antilles, not to mention other parts of the world, notwithstanding.

Where corroborating facts (and figures) are concerned, this thread so far still remains a fallacy from the opening post onwards.
 
International10 said:
Take a quick glance at demographic projections over the next few decades for USA, Sweden, Britain, Italy, or France. What is the conspiracy?
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You need a very quick glance, laden with lots of alcohol and drugs to believe that Sweden, Britain, France or Italy are about to change that quickly.

International10 said:
~ Why is it not worth a discussion?
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Drop the thread in the conspiracy forum and I'll discuss.
 
Chagos said:
AND, just to pick up on this, those 28.7 pct are not all going to be non-whites either.

Non-whites from Surinam and the Antilles, not to mention other parts of the world, notwithstanding.

Where corroborating facts (and figures) are concerned, this thread so far still remains a fallacy from the opening post onwards.
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The fastest growing group of non-western immigrants/heritage is Asians, especially Chinese.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You need a very quick glance, laden with lots of alcohol and drugs to believe that Sweden, Britain, France or Italy are about to change that quickly.



Drop the thread in the conspiracy forum and I'll discuss.
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:rofl
 
Unfortunately your analysis of the numbers is patently wrong. Citing "Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek" - in 2013 - 22% of the Dutch population was categorized as "non-dutch." and 9% of (the 22%) were categorized as "western." The remaining 12% were categorized as "non-western" of which about 5% were Morrocan or Turkish.

As for your analysis about Japanese and whether they consider themselves white? I have no idea where you got that from? When I was reffering to Japanese and South Koreans that was just an example of an extremly homogenous population who has long-held strict immigration policies directed precicely at reflecting a public policy aimed at maintaining the demographic status qou.
Click to expand...

At present, there are 700,000 Koreans in Japan, three-fourths of whom were born in and have grown up in Japan. The Koreans and other "resident aliens" make up 1% of Japan's population and there are over 1 million "resident aliens" in Japan, mostly Koreans or Chinese. The Netherlands' minority problem is quite similar to that of Japan and ethnic Moroccans make up 2% of the Dutch population. The Moroccans in the Netherlands are descended in part from factory workers who immigrated in the 1970s and 1980s, while the Koreans in Japan are the descendants of conscripted factory workers and coal miners in the 1940s. The Moroccans in the Netherlands are fewer in number (400,000), compared to the Koreans in Japan (700,000). All industrialised countries had imported manual workers in the past from their former colonies and Japan is no exception.

 
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