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May Brexit plan already derailed.. took a few hours.

DarkWizard12 said:
If remainers actually cared about the fate of britain(as they claim), wouldn't they want May to be successful in trade negotiations with the EU? If May fails, you're the ones who pay the price, all of you. But you'd rather strike political points? Me thinks the remainers are more concerned about foreign interests.
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i don't want anything to do with the UK ... i want my country out the UK and remain in the EU 62% of us voted to remain all 32 Scottish regions ... if you want to be a little Englander then fine ... Theresa May and the Tories don't speak for Scotland with 1 MP out of 59 Scottish MPs ... the UK is finished
 
Manc Skipper said:
When you are building an economic bloc to rival the USA or China, then including the sixth largest economy in the world makes sense.
Britain is only leaving because Cameron tried to resolve an internal row within the Tory party by placating his Eurosceptic far right with a referendum.
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The USA and China aren't a bloc. They are individual country's with their own sovereignty and self determination. The EU bloc is a mismatch of countries that can't even decide if a banana should be straight or curved.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
From my reading of the EU army, I didn't see a full time army with "EU" badges - it still seemed more like member states who would have units on call for military cooperation based around 4 military structures. These were supposedly built or based on German, French Italian and Spanish organisation.
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Yea and that has been around for decades. Its called Eurocorps. It has 5 member nations plus 4 associated. It is between 1000 to 5000 troops, and is basically inactive.

Now saying that, they might want to expand the cooperation and even create an European NATO like situation, but that is not an EU army or military.
 
Andalublue said:
No, that's what being a member of an economic union means; that trade into and out of the bloc is regulated by jointly negotiated trade deals. It's what the EU was set up to do.

No, they would not. That would be a contravention of the rules of the EU.
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That people think countries in the EU can just go off lone Wolf, and trade as a single nation has been repeated ad nauseum and IMO was one issue that wasn't countered strongly, and vocally, by remain.
 
gunner said:
That people think countries in the EU can just go off lone Wolf, and trade as a single nation has been repeated ad nauseum and IMO was one issue that wasn't countered strongly, and vocally, by remain.
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Actually they can. India comes to mind.. US comes to mind. The caveat is however they have to operate within a certain set of guidelines for this customs union and common market. But there is nothing that prevents the UK or anyone to make trade deals with India or the US.. just not "free trade deals" or similar that give unfair advantage to the UK over the rest of the EU (going both ways).

Now if the EU member nations decide that we need a trade deal with India as the EU, then any and all trade deals made individually will be null and void. ..... well most likely they will be incorporated into the new common trade deal.

But what is never discussed, is how rare trade deals actually are and how long it takes to do them. People seem to think that they are common as dirty underwear and happen often... they dont. Especially between the worlds economic powers. If you look at the trade deals that are out there, it is always between a massive power and weak opponents, and the trade deals often favour the massive power big time. When you have two massive powers go up against each other, then that wont (normally) happen which is why there are so few trade deals.
 
Sweden said:
The outcome of the negotiations will be a trade deal. This article explains some of the reasons why.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/britain-and-the-eu-probably-will-reach-a-trade-deal-heres-why/
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The Brits should be non-commitedly friendly to the EU but worry more about trade negotiations with the other large players than about the Eu at this point. Reducing corporate taxes might be another thing to think about as well as making it easy for companies to employ foreign specialists make it sensible to settle in the country, while restricting untrained inward bound immigration. Make it even more rational to want to invest in the UK. That kind of work must be done in any event and the EU is delaying the beginning of negotiations and wants to make the UK look imperiled to their own populations for political reasons.
 
gunner said:
That people think countries in the EU can just go off lone Wolf, and trade as a single nation has been repeated ad nauseum and IMO was one issue that wasn't countered strongly, and vocally, by remain.
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Verhofstadt said yesterday to the EU Parliament that the EU would not tolerate the UK negotiating with third parties during the article 50 negotiations.


And as I just just now see on Spiegel, Tusk warned the UK not to do deals with individual EU members.
 
PeteEU said:
Actually they can. India comes to mind.. US comes to mind. The caveat is however they have to operate within a certain set of guidelines for this customs union and common market. But there is nothing that prevents the UK or anyone to make trade deals with India or the US.. just not "free trade deals" or similar that give unfair advantage to the UK over the rest of the EU (going both ways).

Now if the EU member nations decide that we need a trade deal with India as the EU, then any and all trade deals made individually will be null and void. ..... well most likely they will be incorporated into the new common trade deal.

But what is never discussed, is how rare trade deals actually are and how long it takes to do them. People seem to think that they are common as dirty underwear and happen often... they dont. Especially between the worlds economic powers. If you look at the trade deals that are out there, it is always between a massive power and weak opponents, and the trade deals often favour the massive power big time. When you have two massive powers go up against each other, then that wont (normally) happen which is why there are so few trade deals.
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As your post highlights the complexity is stark, and that's my point.
 
gunner said:
As your post highlights the complexity is stark, and that's my point.
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But you are not allowed to have a point!!!! and the complexity of this whole situation is insane, which makes it even more ironic when the Brexit crew say "all will be fine".. err okay!
 
PeteEU said:
Angela Merkel derails Theresa May's Brexit plan by rejecting parallel trade talks | The Independent



She said..


Well done Mrs Merkel. I fully agree on this point.
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Donald Tusk has made similar comments, first the basics of the divorce and after that the negotiation about future relationships between the EU and the UK.

May may want a lot of things, but first the divorce bill, migrant rights, business rules and the Irish border issues have to be solved before trade negotiations can take place and I fully agree with that.

The UK wants out and we do not have to follow the UK's demands about how the process should take place.
 
Get back in your box
 
DA60 said:
Oh, this is ridiculous. I ask a simple question and you start writing War and Peace.

To answer the above - all I read of your novella: I say if the UK told the EU to piss off that individual countries would still trade with Britain (for instance, Quebec makes separate trade deals with other countries. It is not illegal.).
And all the visa obstacles would be resolved VERY quickly.
And your airspace idea is complete rubbish, imo. I think you are WAY over dramatizing it.

You do not agree...so be it.

I don't remotely care about this that much. And why you do is beyond me. Hello....it was only a small hypothetical question...not 'what is the meaning of life?'.
Lighten up, man.
Life is serious enough...you don't need to go around trying to drum up big debates/arguments about little, hypothetical questions.


We are done here.

Good day.
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The trade deals that Quebec can sign are minor and have to follow Canadian law first and foremost. They can not remove tariffs that are determined by Canadian law. They can remove provincial taxes on foreign companies and remove provincially set regulations on foreign business's.

The same would also apply to EU members, the trade deal will not override EU set regulations. So nationally set taxes, or regulations that do not fall under EU ones can be negotiated.
 
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