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[W:#7426]How will Brexit go?***W:46]***

How will Brexit go?

  • The EU will continue to grow but will change to address the feelings that drove Brexit.

    Votes: 13 11.4%

  • The EU will continue to grow but will not address the feelings that drove Brexit

    Votes: 16 14.0%

  • The EU will see more countries pulling out after we leave.

    Votes: 20 17.5%

  • The UK will break up as a consequence of Brexit.

    Votes: 26 22.8%

  • The UK will still hold after all is done and dusted.

    Votes: 20 17.5%

  • There’ll be a second Brexit related referendum. (Independence / Brexit etc)

    Votes: 22 19.3%

  • We’ll end up with soft Brexit and end up staying within EFTA.

    Votes: 18 15.8%

  • We'll have a Hard Brexit, a disaster ending with WTO rules.

    Votes: 29 25.4%

  • We'll have a Hard Brexit which will be a success, even under WTO rules

    Votes: 18 15.8%
  • Total voters
    114
Jack Hays said:
[h=3]UK Labour Members Accuse Leader of 'Allowing Antisemitism to Grow ...[/h]
[url]https://time.com › World › United Kingdom
[/URL]



Jul 17, 2019 - More than 60 members of the UK Labour party have taken out a ... advert accusing leader Jeremy Corbyn of failing to tackle anti-Semitism.Missing: NYRB




[h=3]UK Labour Party in turmoil over new anti-Semitism claims - AP News[/h]
[url]https://www.apnews.com/707d90ac7d97497fb1883b2bee0061fd
[/URL]



Jul 11, 2019 - LONDON (AP) — Britain's main opposition Labour Party was in ... documentary renewed allegations that anti-Semitism is rife within its ranks.Missing: NYRB




[h=3]Opinion | Jeremy Corbyn's Anti-Semitic Labour Party - The New York ...[/h]
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/opinion/corbyn-berger-anti-semitism.html
[/URL]
Feb 28, 2019 - LONDON — Europe's gathering Jewish question came into sharp focus this month when a British M.P. declared that she had come to the ...Missing: NYRB
Click to expand...
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The Tories with their right wing newspapers have been pushing this anti-semitic claim and some Labour members have seen an opening to do a palace coup against a leader that they dont like. Nothing new here. Problem is that there are all these accusations but very little real evidence. And it is funny how the party that basically invented anti-semitism in the UK is all clear of it now and not in the media? Odd no? The party of Churchill, a proven anti-semitic, is now suddenly without a single anti-semite in a party that is degenerating back to the "good old days"? Yea right.

I am not saying there is no anti-semitism in Labour, I am sure there is.. but rampant as the conservative lead media claim is a bit much. Supporting the Palestinians aint being anti-semitic. Being critical of Israel aint being anti-semitic and yet that is the basis of the anti-semitic claims against Corbyn and those in Labour accused of anti-semitism.
 
Jack Hays said:
And an old style Anti-Semite. I've seen nothing from him that would rule out working with Putin.
Click to expand...

Putin is on record recently promoting populism and nationalism. Corbyn is a weak ineffectual leader but he's good in opposition - he'd be a useful idiot for Putin, just as many right wing extremist leaders have been for him however I don't see Corbyn working with Putin: more being used by Putin.

On the anti-semitism front, I don't think he himself is anti-semitic (remember Palestinians are Semitic people too if we want to get into nit-picking) but he's certainly not prevented people in his party being anti-semitic. Have to say (remaining neutral on this) the Conservative party has its share of anti-semites but an even bigger problem with islamophobia.

PeteEU said:
Corbyn is a classical 1970s socialist. Flower power, people's power and democracy, workers rights and all that put into an ideology of the state controlling as much as possible.

Putin is corporate capitalist mafioso. He is in it for money and power with the usual dose of nationalist ideology. He could care less about workers rights and the people.

They are basically polar opposites.

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

On the 70's socialist thing - very much agree - he's also not an aggressive type which is why he hasn't confronted the anti-semites in the party.
 
PeteEU said:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The Tories with their right wing newspapers have been pushing this anti-semitic claim and some Labour members have seen an opening to do a palace coup against a leader that they dont like. Nothing new here. Problem is that there are all these accusations but very little real evidence. And it is funny how the party that basically invented anti-semitism in the UK is all clear of it now and not in the media? Odd no? The party of Churchill, a proven anti-semitic, is now suddenly without a single anti-semite in a party that is degenerating back to the "good old days"? Yea right.

I am not saying there is no anti-semitism in Labour, I am sure there is.. but rampant as the conservative lead media claim is a bit much. Supporting the Palestinians aint being anti-semitic. Being critical of Israel aint being anti-semitic and yet that is the basis of the anti-semitic claims against Corbyn and those in Labour accused of anti-semitism.
Click to expand...

Two of the three links were to American sources.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Putin is on record recently promoting populism and nationalism. Corbyn is a weak ineffectual leader but he's good in opposition - he'd be a useful idiot for Putin, just as many right wing extremist leaders have been for him however I don't see Corbyn working with Putin: more being used by Putin.

On the anti-semitism front, I don't think he himself is anti-semitic (remember Palestinians are Semitic people too if we want to get into nit-picking) but he's certainly not prevented people in his party being anti-semitic. Have to say (remaining neutral on this) the Conservative party has its share of anti-semites but an even bigger problem with islamophobia.



On the 70's socialist thing - very much agree - he's also not an aggressive type which is why he hasn't confronted the anti-semites in the party.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with all of this, but it's fair-minded.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Putin is on record recently promoting populism and nationalism. Corbyn is a weak ineffectual leader but he's good in opposition - he'd be a useful idiot for Putin, just as many right wing extremist leaders have been for him however I don't see Corbyn working with Putin: more being used by Putin.

On the anti-semitism front, I don't think he himself is anti-semitic (remember Palestinians are Semitic people too if we want to get into nit-picking) but he's certainly not prevented people in his party being anti-semitic. Have to say (remaining neutral on this) the Conservative party has its share of anti-semites but an even bigger problem with islamophobia.



On the 70's socialist thing - very much agree - he's also not an aggressive type which is why he hasn't confronted the anti-semites in the party.
Click to expand...

Disciplinary proceedings are out of Corbyn's remit.
 
Manc Skipper said:
All part of the smear campaign. Labour's right wing is trying to unseat their lefty leader by any means.

Jewish Labour members support Corbyn, with a few notable exceptions.


This Professor is an Israeli historian.Is he an antisemite too?

Chuka Umunna's Flip Flops on Twitter: "If there's no room in @UKLabour for @DerbyChrisW, then there's no room for Ilan Pappe, an Israeli professor who believes antisemitism is being weaponised to bring down Jeremy Corbyn. And If there's no room for Jews like Ilan Pappe, then what's the point? https://t.co/10rSAUiAvl"
Click to expand...

PeteEU said:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The Tories with their right wing newspapers have been pushing this anti-semitic claim and some Labour members have seen an opening to do a palace coup against a leader that they dont like. Nothing new here. Problem is that there are all these accusations but very little real evidence. And it is funny how the party that basically invented anti-semitism in the UK is all clear of it now and not in the media? Odd no? The party of Churchill, a proven anti-semitic, is now suddenly without a single anti-semite in a party that is degenerating back to the "good old days"? Yea right.

I am not saying there is no anti-semitism in Labour, I am sure there is.. but rampant as the conservative lead media claim is a bit much. Supporting the Palestinians aint being anti-semitic. Being critical of Israel aint being anti-semitic and yet that is the basis of the anti-semitic claims against Corbyn and those in Labour accused of anti-semitism.
Click to expand...

[h=3]Jeremy Corbyn's Anti-Semitism Crisis | The New Yorker[/h]
[url]https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the.../jeremy-corbyns-anti-semitism-crisis
[/URL]
Aug 12, 2018 - Sam Knight writes about Jeremy Corbyn's confrontation with Britain's Jewish community, and what it means for the British Labour Party.




[h=3]Jeremy Corbyn and the anti-Semitism crisis tearing the UK Labour ...[/h]
[url]https://www.vox.com/.../uk-labour-party-anti-semitism-jeremy-corbyn-juliana-berger
[/URL]



Mar 8, 2019 - Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is being accused of mishandling claims of anti-Semitismin the party.

[h=3]Opinion | Jeremy Corbyn's Anti-Semitic Labour Party - The New York ...[/h]
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/opinion/corbyn-berger-anti-semitism.html
[/URL]
Feb 28, 2019 - Jeremy Corbyn, Britain's Labour Party leader, has been accused of being anti-Semitic. ... So, I asked in an interview, is Corbyn an anti-Semite?



 
Jack Hays said:
[h=3]Jeremy Corbyn's Anti-Semitism Crisis | The New Yorker[/h]
[url]https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the.../jeremy-corbyns-anti-semitism-crisis
[/URL]
Aug 12, 2018 - Sam Knight writes about Jeremy Corbyn's confrontation with Britain's Jewish community, and what it means for the British Labour Party.




[h=3]Jeremy Corbyn and the anti-Semitism crisis tearing the UK Labour ...[/h]
[url]https://www.vox.com/.../uk-labour-party-anti-semitism-jeremy-corbyn-juliana-berger
[/URL]



Mar 8, 2019 - Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is being accused of mishandling claims of anti-Semitismin the party.

[h=3]Opinion | Jeremy Corbyn's Anti-Semitic Labour Party - The New York ...[/h]
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/opinion/corbyn-berger-anti-semitism.html
[/URL]
Feb 28, 2019 - Jeremy Corbyn, Britain's Labour Party leader, has been accused of being anti-Semitic. ... So, I asked in an interview, is Corbyn an anti-Semite?
Click to expand...

Because of course the US media knows British politics better than the British.
 
For perspective. The younger people who will have to live with Brexit consequences for the better part of their lives do not favor the Leave option.

DwaRLKDW0AEPCA4.jpg
 
Jack Hays said:
Just to point out it's not just a British political conspiracy. The three cited sources do not lean right.
Click to expand...
Actually they do lean right. Most US media is centre right including the New York Times.

But that all goes out the window if some dares being critical of Israel. In this case Corbyn is the double winner of being a 1970s flower power socialist and favouring the Palestinians over Israel. So red meat for the pro Israel US media.





Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
PeteEU said:
Actually they do lean right. Most US media is centre right including the New York Times.

But that all goes out the window if some dares being critical of Israel. In this case Corbyn is the double winner of being a 1970s flower power socialist and favouring the Palestinians over Israel. So red meat for the pro Israel US media.





Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Laughably uniformed.
 
Manc Skipper said:
We tolerate you anyway.

‘Left-wing antisemitism’ – the new anti-Corbyn trope. Why I’ve turned my back on the charity Hope Not Hate | Jewish Voice for Labour
Click to expand...

[h=3]Among Britain's Anti-Semites | Harper's Magazine[/h]
[url]https://harpers.org/archive/2018/10/among-britains-anti-semites/
[/URL]



This is the story of how the institutions of British Jewry went to war with Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party. Corbyn is another feather in the wind of ...
 
I suggest that Antisemitism in British politics deserves a thread of its own.

This particular thread is about Brexit.
 
Returning to Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn has written to fellow opposition parties with his plans for a no-confidence in the BoJo Govt and install a caretaker govt.

Jeremy Corbyn has urged the leaders of the other opposition parties and Tory rebels to install him as caretaker PM in order to stop a no-deal Brexit.
If he wins a no-confidence vote in the government, the Labour leader plans to delay Brexit, call a snap election and campaign for another referendum.
Mr Corbyn outlined his plan in a letter, saying the caretaker government would be "strictly time-limited". Link.
Click to expand...

Right now, they have largely poo-pooed the idea but I suspect minds will be sharpened as we get closer to the deadline. I'm finding this strange as Corbyn has more often than not voted against EU proposals in Parliament and he certainly was not a prominent Remain supporter.

This follows on from yesterday when BoJo accused the EU of working with opposition MPs to prevent no-deal. As far as I can remember, the EU has been largely neutral in all this?

Aristaeus said:
Disciplinary proceedings are out of Corbyn's remit.
Click to expand...

True, but as leader, he sets the tone of the party. In this case, his inaction and probable weakness enables the growth of anti-semitic behaviours.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Returning to Brexit: Jeremy Corbyn has written to fellow opposition parties with his plans for a no-confidence in the BoJo Govt and install a caretaker govt.



Right now, they have largely poo-pooed the idea but I suspect minds will be sharpened as we get closer to the deadline. I'm finding this strange as Corbyn has more often than not voted against EU proposals in Parliament and he certainly was not a prominent Remain supporter.

This follows on from yesterday when BoJo accused the EU of working with opposition MPs to prevent no-deal. As far as I can remember, the EU has been largely neutral in all this?



True, but as leader, he sets the tone of the party. In this case, his inaction and probable weakness enables the growth of anti-semitic behaviours.
Click to expand...
One of the greatest deficits (for a variety of demonstrated reasons) of Labour is having Corbyn as its head.

Suspicions (not at all unfounded) of Boris caring primarily to take leadership of the country far more than caring on the issue of "Brexit or not" (or how), easily extend themselves to Jeremy just as much.

Two self-aggrandizing opportunists are met with exactly the distrust that they both deserve. I doesn't matter whether their dishonesty expresses itself in the outright lying that Boris favours, or the shameful prevarications that Jeremy is prone to. They both stink and most people don't like walking around with clothes pegs on their noses.

That is the predicament that Britain today faces in its political class, put the whole bunch in a jute bag and start clubbing the hell out of it, and whoever you hit will be the right one.
 
Things have moved on quickly - Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman have suggested they would be open to leading an emergency government.

I think if they did it together, there is a stronger chance of uniting a large state of MPs.

Labour and Corbyn really have to look at how much of a serious proposition Corbyn is as a leader when at this time of oncoming disaster, he's not the obvious shoe-in.
 
In a move likely to go down well with the EU when he meets this week - Boris is going to tell various Leaders they need to prepare a new deal ready or we shoot ourselves in the head on 31st October.

What's the likelihood the EU is overjoyed at the idea of that giant open back door to help bypass EU customs taxes and controls and bring the whole thing down?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
In a move likely to go down well with the EU when he meets this week - Boris is going to tell various Leaders they need to prepare a new deal ready or we shoot ourselves in the head on 31st October.

What's the likelihood the EU is overjoyed at the idea of that giant open back door to help bypass EU customs taxes and controls and bring the whole thing down?
Click to expand...

Angela Merkel is already saying that the EU/UK Brexit deal will not be renegotiated.
 
PeteEU said:
UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit, under new government plan | The Independent


This will cause chaos and if the UK can't be trusted with this...remember the previous government promised no changes....
Click to expand...

Remember that the whole Brexit argument was to end freedom of movement. A no deal means exactly that. Boris is the architect of the Euro-myth and he will be judged by that and his hand at the wheel when Brexit happened.

Rogue Valley said:
Angela Merkel is already saying that the EU/UK Brexit deal will not be renegotiated.
Click to expand...

Common sense except for ultra-Brexiteers really. A giant open back door for illegal trade will end the whole reason for the EU.
 
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