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[W:#7426]How will Brexit go?***W:46]***

How will Brexit go?

  • The EU will continue to grow but will change to address the feelings that drove Brexit.

    Votes: 13 11.4%

  • The EU will continue to grow but will not address the feelings that drove Brexit

    Votes: 16 14.0%

  • The EU will see more countries pulling out after we leave.

    Votes: 20 17.5%

  • The UK will break up as a consequence of Brexit.

    Votes: 26 22.8%

  • The UK will still hold after all is done and dusted.

    Votes: 20 17.5%

  • There’ll be a second Brexit related referendum. (Independence / Brexit etc)

    Votes: 22 19.3%

  • We’ll end up with soft Brexit and end up staying within EFTA.

    Votes: 18 15.8%

  • We'll have a Hard Brexit, a disaster ending with WTO rules.

    Votes: 29 25.4%

  • We'll have a Hard Brexit which will be a success, even under WTO rules

    Votes: 18 15.8%
  • Total voters
    114
Rogue Valley said:
The only challenge is not to hurt ourselves when falling out of our chairs laughing :lol:
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Come on Jo - don't under-sell yourself.

Your creativity in news 'presentation', and your library of photos, is admirable. Langley is working you hard.
 
Westphalian said:
Regarding comments on Francois, I'm not sure how any of you being serious can conflate a Tory Party leadership dispute with an EU referendum.

Devotees of a second referendum would do well to honestly ponder for a minute and ask themselves how keen they would be had Remain won in 2016.

I think we all know the answer. Equally a second referendum would open the door to calls for a third. After all, once you advocate the principle of having a re-think after a few years, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this can all be thrown back in your face at the next Eurozone crisis, migrant crisis, or whatever crisis engulfs the EU ......... which is a question of when not if.
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Ye gods, what a load of piffle in light of the fact that every Western country has opportunity for a rethink around every 4 or 5 years (depending on who we look at).

It's called elections.:roll:

As to Francois, he merits being ridiculed as much as any of the other Brexidiots and as much as anyone feeling called upon to follow their line.

And it incidentally does not require to have voted "Leave" to be an idiot, just being an idiot is quite sufficient.

As to your "ponderings", let me help you out. If Remain had won, there wouldn't be any of this mess of today, nor would there be much opportunity for you to soil this forum with such asinine hypotheses as above.
 
Westphalian said:
Come on Jo - don't under-sell yourself.

Your creativity in news 'presentation', and your library of photos, is admirable. Langley is working you hard.
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Says the Putinista propaganda salesman :lamo
 
Westphalian said:
I'm pleased that my posts provide some entertainment value, but they're also meant to be challenging.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to accept the facts (yes, facts) that the vast majority of MPs were elected in 2017 on a platform of honouring the referendum and delivering Brexit.

It's also a fact that the government alone does not have the power to deliver Brexit without parliament.

Both facts. Remember what facts are?

From this it should be axiomatic that parliament's failure to deliver Brexit is immensely damaging to its reputation, and dangerous for a so called democracy.
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Ah, here we go again. Here, you seem to understand that MPs are elected, not Parliament however I ask again - where in the Labour Manifesto does it state the type of Brexit you seem to want delivered?

To me - it's clearly this"

  • Accept the EU referendum result and "build a close new relationship with the EU" prioritising jobs and and workers' rights
  • Guarantee the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and work to "secure reciprocal rights" for UK citizens elsewhere in the EU
  • A "meaningful" role for Parliament throughout Brexit negotiations
  • Scrap Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace with "fresh negotiating priorities" with strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single market and customs union
  • Reject no deal as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements "to avoid a cliff-edge for the UK economy"
  • Keep EU-derived laws on workers' rights, equality, consumer rights and environmental protections
  • Maintain UK's leading research role by seeking to stay part of Horizon 2020 and its successor programmes
  • Seek to maintain membership of European organisations which offer benefits to the UK such as Euratom and the European Medicines Agency
  • Will not allow Brexit to be used as an excuse to undercut UK farmers and flood Britain's food chain with cheap and inferior produce.

At no point does it point out a clear simple Brexit similar to the Govt - it actually states it will scrap the Govt white paper.

Understand that? Yes or No?
 
The Russians' agenda here, and actually everywhere on DP, is glaringly obvious.

Argue and advance any position that will serve to sow chaos in a particular European nation, in the EU, or in NATO.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The Russians' agenda here, and actually everywhere on DP, is glaringly obvious.

Argue and advance any position that will serve to sow chaos in a particular European nation, in the EU, or in NATO.
Click to expand...

He's not doing very well but he / she / they are always interesting. I like how on one thread he / she / they understand how MPs are elected but then on another, (this one) the statement is quite different and makes a basic fundamental mistake.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Ah, here we go again. Here, you seem to understand that MPs are elected, not Parliament however I ask again - where in the Labour Manifesto does it state the type of Brexit you seem to want delivered?

To me - it's clearly this"

  • Accept the EU referendum result and "build a close new relationship with the EU" prioritising jobs and and workers' rights
  • Guarantee the rights of EU nationals living in the UK and work to "secure reciprocal rights" for UK citizens elsewhere in the EU
  • A "meaningful" role for Parliament throughout Brexit negotiations
  • Scrap Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace with "fresh negotiating priorities" with strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single market and customs union
  • Reject no deal as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements "to avoid a cliff-edge for the UK economy"
  • Keep EU-derived laws on workers' rights, equality, consumer rights and environmental protections
  • Maintain UK's leading research role by seeking to stay part of Horizon 2020 and its successor programmes
  • Seek to maintain membership of European organisations which offer benefits to the UK such as Euratom and the European Medicines Agency
  • Will not allow Brexit to be used as an excuse to undercut UK farmers and flood Britain's food chain with cheap and inferior produce.

At no point does it point out a clear simple Brexit similar to the Govt - it actually states it will scrap the Govt white paper.

Understand that? Yes or No?
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What I said was that Labour promised to respect the referendum, deliver Brexit and leave the single market.


I didn't say that they promised to support a then non existent government deal.


No idea why you insist on twisting my words.

Parliament has collectively failed to deliver Brexit.


Understand that? Yes or no?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
He's not doing very well but he / she / they are always interesting. I like how on one thread he / she / they understand how MPs are elected but then on another, (this one) the statement is quite different and makes a basic fundamental mistake.
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The only mistake here is your mis-reading of what I said.
 
This is fairly astonishing for a party formed only a few weeks ago :shock:

Brexit Party leading in EU Parliament polls | YouGov


In our first poll on the forthcoming EU Parliament elections last week Nigel Farage’s new outfit stormed into third place with 15% of the vote. This was despite the Brexit Party not having formally launched.

Now, following the burst of publicity that came with their official formation, our second poll, conducted for the People’s Vote, shows the Brexit Party leapfrogging into first place on 27% of the vote.
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Westphalian said:
What I said was that Labour promised to respect the referendum, deliver Brexit and leave the single market.


I didn't say that they promised to support a then non existent government deal.


No idea why you insist on twisting my words.

Parliament has collectively failed to deliver Brexit.


Understand that? Yes or no?
Click to expand...

I answered your question. Yes or no?

You answered mine in honest return? Yes or no?

And to clarify your confusion -

You claim "I said was that Labour promised to respect the referendum, deliver Brexit and leave the single market."

Labour manifesto
  • "Scrap Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace with "fresh negotiating priorities" with strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single market and customs union
  • Reject no deal as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements "to avoid a cliff-edge for the UK economy"
"
 
Infinite Chaos said:
To educate you on something else - the EU elections usually have a very low turnout except for the most motivated and politically active. I leave you to work out what that means with regard to this forthcoming election.
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You're not educating me. The turnout is low because the Brussels Duma is remote, unaccountable, and few people can be bothered to vote in charade elections using regional party lists of people nobody knows or cares about, and they'll never hear of again.


Even so, if you don't think that these elections will tell us some very interesting and important things about UK politics then you're living in denial.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I answered your question. Yes or no?

You answered mine in honest return? Yes or no?

And to clarify your confusion -

You claim "I said was that Labour promised to respect the referendum, deliver Brexit and leave the single market."

Labour manifesto
  • "Scrap Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace with "fresh negotiating priorities" with strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single market and customs union
  • Reject no deal as a viable option and if needs be negotiate transitional arrangements "to avoid a cliff-edge for the UK economy"
"
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Why are you selectively quoting the Labour manifesto?


None of it contradicts what I said.


Here is the Labour manifesto pledge to end freedom of movement, which means leaving the single market:

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

Freedom of movement will
end when we leave the European
Union. Britain’s immigration system
will change, but Labour will not
scapegoat migrants nor blame
them for economic failures.
Labour will develop and implement
fair immigration rules.
Click to expand...


I have to ask IC - who is educating who? I think you should withdraw your false accusations.
 
Westphalian said:
~ few people can be bothered to vote ~
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And what does "very low turnout" mean? You're not covering yourself in glory here.

Westphalian said:
Why are you selectively quoting the Labour manifesto?


None of it contradicts what I said.


Here is the Labour manifesto pledge to end freedom of movement, which means leaving the single market:

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf




I have to ask IC - who is educating who? I think you should withdraw your false accusations.
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I posted the manifesto two or three posts previously... And I see that like Phoenix, when you can't answer a question honestly, you instead post and make a new comment hoping to deflect from the weakness in your position.
the Labour manifesto makes pledges to both Remain and Brexit positions. It promises one thing but seeks to retain others which cannot be achieved without remaining. It's been proven by the negotiations that we cannot leave the Single market yet retain the benefits of the single market and customs union.

So yes, despite your flailing, you cannot prove your Brexit claim on Labour.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
He's not doing very well but he / she / they are always interesting. I like how on one thread he / she / they understand how MPs are elected but then on another, (this one) the statement is quite different and makes a basic fundamental mistake.
Click to expand...
From the moment this guy showed up on here he mirrored Russian propaganda outlets to the dotted i's and the crossed t's.

The strategy being "obfuscate, distort, misrepresent, move goalposts, turn the tables and, finally when (habitually) winding up in deep water, deny and lie, lie and deny, deny and deny and lie and lie. Carbon copy of practically all Russian outlets from RT to Pravda, not to mention official government bulletins on matters under dispute.

All the while being so excruciatingly bad at the job of disinformation that one wonders whether his employers are deaf and blind or simply don't care as long as this tripe makes its way out there.

When I argued with what he peddles as facts, I eventually realized that I was merely feeding his desire for attention, seeing how debate with somebody so dishonest is totally impossible. As such the shredding of his asinine presentations long since lost its entertainment value for me.

Consequently my responses since (much like RV's) confine themselves to raising the general awareness level over what and who he is and how unworthy of any response beyond that. He can ignore that all he likes, it changes nothing in his portrayal.
 
Westphalian said:
~............................I have to ask IC - who is educating who?
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With you perceivably being the only one by now
I think you should withdraw your false accusations.
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Which one, the one on your dishonesty?

Hilarious how you cloak your faux poutrage in dishonesty even in this case. Demanding withdrawal of an accusation while confirming its accuracy in the very same post really takes talent.:lol:
 
Snazzy said:
Evidently the Brexit Party's sole tactics are to try and wreak havoc at the next EU elections.

"Brexiteer John Longworth OUTLINES how it would be his 'duty' to FRUSTRATE EU as an MEP"

Brexit news: Longworth claims it's his 'duty' to FRUSTRATE EU as an MEP | UK | News | Express.co.uk
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The EU should be in no doubt that forcing unwanted elections on the UK will lead to a large contingent of EU hating MEPs being returned who will do everything possible to disrupt and frustrate the EU.

That will be the mandate upon which they will be elected.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
And what does "very low turnout" mean? You're not covering yourself in glory here.



I posted the manifesto two or three posts previously... And I see that like Phoenix, when you can't answer a question honestly, you instead post and make a new comment hoping to deflect from the weakness in your position.
the Labour manifesto makes pledges to both Remain and Brexit positions. It promises one thing but seeks to retain others which cannot be achieved without remaining. It's been proven by the negotiations that we cannot leave the Single market yet retain the benefits of the single market and customs union.

So yes, despite your flailing, you cannot prove your Brexit claim on Labour.
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What a load of Orwellian double speak and obfuscation.

You selectively quoted the manifesto, omitting the pledge to end free movement, and then refuse to back down from your flawed self righteousness. Labour's position in 2017 was very clear. Honor the referendum, end free movement.

You shouldn't throw insults when you live in a very low ceilinged and flimsy glasshouse.
 
Westphalian said:
The EU should be in no doubt that forcing unwanted elections on the UK ........~
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more lies from you, unsurprisingly.

Not for your benefit but for that of others, the EU wants UK participation in the elections like it wants a hole in the head. But it cannot prevent the participation of any member state (if that state is still a member at the time of election) without making the whole election result invalid.

But good to see confirmation of
Chagos said:
~....................strategy being "obfuscate, distort, misrepresent, move goalposts, turn the tables and, finally when (habitually) winding up in deep water, deny and lie, lie and deny, deny and deny and lie and lie. .................~
Click to expand...
 
Westphalian said:
What a load of Orwellian double speak and obfuscation.

You selectively quoted the manifesto, omitting the pledge to end free movement, and then refuse to back down from your flawed self righteousness. Labour's position in 2017 was very clear. Honor the referendum, end free movement.

You shouldn't throw insults when you live in a very low ceilinged and flimsy glasshouse.
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Here's a challenge - I posted the Labour Manifesto first on another thread, then you posted it afterwards. You claim it pledges to end freedom of movement.

Find the exact paragraph that clearly backs up what you are claiming and post it here. If you open the pdf on a windows machine - press cntrl+F or on a Mac click ⌘+F.

Post away, you clearly cannot answer questions honestly so I'll let you try the honesty challenge instead.

We'll return to my questions later.
 


Channel 4 exposes Arron Banks funded advert faked migrant footage. Paid actors then pretend to attack innocent white women in a classic appeal to the hard right spectrum of Brexit supporters.

All well and good, however a point raised by one comment is that these fake adverts should be challenged, chased up on and prosecutions as necessary happen.

 
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