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[W:#7426]How will Brexit go?***W:46]***

How will Brexit go?


  • Total voters
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No further waste of space and bandwidth.

Just shows the level of engagement you've put into this thread.


These common retorts of yours to attempt to make yourself appear superior when in disagreement with anyone are equally pathetic.

You're like a cracked record....


In future, if you prefer to save precious space and bandwidth then I'd suggest you simply scroll past my questions instead of being offended by my cheekiness in asking them.
 
Seems Theresa May is trying to prevent further defections from her own ranks. Meetings today with Justine Greening, Philip Lee, David Gauke and Greg Clark. On Labour's side there are a few potential candidates to resign membership including Ian Austin.

Whatever happens, the amount of time remaining is wafer thin - if there is any amendment to the backstop which passes through both Parliament and the EU 27 countries I can imagine the material cost of running it and policing the border for illegal imports into Europe via NI will cost the UK vast sums.

I just can't see the EU allowing an open border with a 3rd country where there is no agreement.

Turds all around it seems.
 
The wilful refusal of many of the pro EU lobby to acknowledge the problems caused by free movement (a policy which requires de facto discrimination in favor of EU workers vis a vis the rest of the world) has cost them the UK's membership of the EU.

I understand that self interest is a powerful motivation to deny reality. The recourse to casual insults of Leavers as thick racists and figures of contempt if not loathing, is of course easy and probably satisfying. But it's also a policy which does not work.

Remain leaders lost the argument in 2016 and have proven unable to change their tactics since. For a bunch of often incredibly smug and arrogant people with enormous resources at their disposal, that's a truly pathetic record of failure.
 
The wilful refusal of many of the pro EU lobby to acknowledge the problems caused by free movement (a policy which requires de facto discrimination in favor of EU workers vis a vis the rest of the world) has cost them the UK's membership of the EU.

Wait... Free movement of people causes problems? So you are against the free movement of people in general or just those that promote your political agenda?

How about free movement between say Paris and Bordeaux? You against that too?

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 
The wilful refusal of many of the pro EU lobby to acknowledge the problems caused by free movement (a policy which requires de facto discrimination in favor of EU workers vis a vis the rest of the world) has cost them the UK's membership of the EU.

I understand that self interest is a powerful motivation to deny reality. The recourse to casual insults of Leavers as thick racists and figures of contempt if not loathing, is of course easy and probably satisfying. But it's also a policy which does not work.

Remain leaders lost the argument in 2016 and have proven unable to change their tactics since. For a bunch of often incredibly smug and arrogant people with enormous resources at their disposal, that's a truly pathetic record of failure.

Then what's not to love about a second referendum, a second opportunity to put one over the Remainers?

Meanwhile Dr. Fox hands in another trade fail:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47319533
 
Wait... Free movement of people causes problems? So you are against the free movement of people in general or just those that promote your political agenda?

How about free movement between say Paris and Bordeaux? You against that too?

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
How 'bout Russians buying real estate in the UK? Or Football Clubs?:mrgreen:

He just keeps regurgitating this same old crap (discrimination in favor of EU workers vis a vis the rest of the world), no matter how often his fail is pointed out.

Any overall EU immigration policy for non-EU citizens (as agreed to be binding for all member states) is yet to materialize. So far it's up to the individual countries as UK (for instance) shows.
 
Why won't Remainers talk about family? Money, money, money ...........

Why won't Remainers talk about family? - UnHerd

My GP friend also told me another story. Just before Christmas he did a home visit to an elderly woman, living on her own, but surrounded by Christmas cards. She proudly told him how well her kids had done, showing him the cards sent by her children living all round the world. “I never see them very much now” she explained. She was on her own for Christmas. They might Skype.

This is what happens when that much over praised value of social mobility becomes the way we think about dealing with social inequality. Social mobility is very much a young person’s value, of course. Get on. Get out of your community. Find a job anywhere you please. Undo the ties that bind you. The world is your oyster.

This is the philosophy that preaches freedom of movement, the Remainers’ golden cow. And it is this same philosophy that encourages bright working-class children to leave their communities to become rootless Rōnin, loyal to nothing but the capitalist dream of individual acquisition and self-advancement.


Always on the move, always hot desking. Short-term contracts. Laptops and mobiles – even the tools of modern workplace remind us that work no longer has any need of place. All this is a philosophy that could not have been better designed to spread misery and unhappiness. Human beings need roots for their emotional and psychological flourishing. They need long-term, face-to-face relationships; they need chatting in the local post office; they need a sense of shared identity, shared values, mutual commitment. No amount of economic growth is worth sacrificing all this for.

Because robbed of their most go-ahead young people, working class communities become ghost towns of hopelessness. And care homes for the elderly become ways to warehouse those who cannot be persuaded to make the trip to Dignitas.
 
Why won't Remainers talk about family? Money, money, money ...........

This is what happens when that much over praised value of social mobility becomes the way we think about dealing with social inequality. Social mobility is very much a young person’s value, of course. Get on. Get out of your community. Find a job anywhere you please. Undo the ties that bind you. The world is your oyster.

This is the philosophy that preaches freedom of movement, the Remainers’ golden cow. And it is this same philosophy that encourages bright working-class children to leave their communities to become rootless Rōnin, loyal to nothing but the capitalist dream of individual acquisition and self-advancement.

And the Brexiteer alternative is to bring down the UK economy and hope that bright young working class kids stay at home with no jobs and no prospects?

Genius!
 
And the Brexiteer alternative is to bring down the UK economy and hope that bright young working class kids stay at home with no jobs and no prospects?

Genius!


No - it's to un-shackle the UK from the world's no growth continent, freeing it up from EU bureaucracy and restrictive trade practices to develop much closer ties to the world's future growth areas.


Funny how the establsihment and urban middle class (who by definition do very nicely out of the status quo) are so averse to change, and instead of making constructive argument spend all their time prophesying doom and convincing nobody except themselves.
 
No - it's to un-shackle the UK from the world's no growth continent, freeing it up from EU bureaucracy and restrictive trade practices to develop much closer ties to the world's future growth areas.
...

And with a month to go, precisely 0% of those aspirations are looking good for being brought to us by this Brexit now or in the foreseeable future. Unless you're a big fan of Faroe Islands whale meat products.
 
No - it's to un-shackle the UK from the world's no growth continent, freeing it up from EU bureaucracy and restrictive trade practices to develop much closer ties to the world's future growth areas.

Translation. - Brexit and then hook up with that 'economic powerhouse' Russia.

Who in their right mind would want to go down that rabbit hole? Even Belarus is trying to break free of Moscow's shackles.
 
Translation. - Brexit and then hook up with that 'economic powerhouse' Russia.

Who in their right mind would want to go down that rabbit hole? Even Belarus is trying to break free of Moscow's shackles.

You might see the UK apply to join the USMCA.
 
No - it's to un-shackle the UK from the world's no growth continent, freeing it up from EU bureaucracy and restrictive trade practices to develop much closer ties to the world's future growth areas.


Funny how the establsihment and urban middle class (who by definition do very nicely out of the status quo) are so averse to change, and instead of making constructive argument spend all their time prophesying doom and convincing nobody except themselves.

That "no growth continent" happens to be the 2nd largest market on the plant.

You might see the UK apply to join the USMCA.

That would be a complete disaster for us. What is the US position on access to the NHS and UK healthcare?
 
That doesn't address the argument at all, but it does illustrate your apparent contempt for open debate.
I get the feeling that the contempt is actually directed at debating with YOU. Simply because, like with anybody concerned primarily with spreading Kremlin speak, debate is the last thing you're here for.
 
I get the feeling that the contempt is actually directed at debating with YOU. Simply because, like with anybody concerned primarily with spreading Kremlin speak, debate is the last thing you're here for.


Take away the few dissident voices like mine and you'd have the sterile echo chamber you desire .......... your very own intolerant, authoritarian society where the job of the so called 'thick racist' working class Leave voters is to resume their place generating profits for the corporates and feeding off the crumbs thrown to them by the establishment.
 
That "no growth continent" happens to be the 2nd largest market on the plant.



That would be a complete disaster for us. What is the US position on access to the NHS and UK healthcare?

USMCA is live and let live on domestic health care.
 
Take away the few dissident voices like mine.........~
Yours is not the voice of any dissident, it's the voice of Kremlin propaganda that aims at disrupting Europe for own nefarious purposes.

Quit trying to make out as though you're here for debate, alone your utter ignorance on Europe in general and any of its countries in particular (here Britain) precludes you from ever being able to join into any such thing.

Demonstrated alone by the asininity of:
your very own intolerant, authoritarian society where the job of the so called 'thick racist' working class Leave voters is to resume their place generating profits for the corporates and feeding off the crumbs thrown to them by the establishment.
 
Take away the few dissident voices like mine and you'd have the sterile echo chamber you desire ..........

Au contraire, the problem is that the Leavers who flit 'dissidently' through here simply don't have the arguments to deal with the Brexit reality. We didn't drive that Phoenix fellow away e.g., he crashed and burned under the weight of his own contradictions.
 
Take away the few dissident voices like mine and you'd have the sterile echo chamber you desire ~

What you fail to understand is that when we or I ask questions it is to understand some of the different Leaver positions.

Whatever your position - paid or not, you are so far the only "Leaver" who actually tries to put together an argument or explanation. As Sven states - some of the other Brexiteers who've been on this thread either ignore questions (just read back a page or two for the last) or fail under the weight of their own contradictions.

Strange that isn't it? Leave actually won the referendum but Leave voters are the least able to keep a discussion going. Why is that?
 
What you fail to understand is that when we or I ask questions it is to understand some of the different Leaver positions.

Whatever your position - paid or not, you are so far the only "Leaver" who actually tries to put together an argument or explanation. As Sven states - some of the other Brexiteers who've been on this thread either ignore questions (just read back a page or two for the last) or fail under the weight of their own contradictions.

Strange that isn't it? Leave actually won the referendum but Leave voters are the least able to keep a discussion going. Why is that?


Whatever your position - paid or not, you are so far the only "Leaver" who actually tries to put together an argument or explanation. As Sven states - some of the other Brexiteers who've been on this thread either ignore questions (just read back a page or two for the last) or fail under the weight of their own contradictions.

Strange that isn't it? Leave actually won the referendum but Leave voters are the least able to keep a discussion going. Why is that?[/QUOTE]


I'm not talking about you and Sven, but there are others such as Chagos who is a one trick pony specialising in shooting the messenger not the message. I've seen the odd constructive post, but mostly it's a barrage of nonsense about 'Kremlin propaganda'. We don't know the reasons why people come and go - I doubt it's because they've been defeated by Remain arguments. In fact, often there are no Remain arguments made. I suspect that's because Remainers honestly think Brexit is self evidently such a stupid idea that there is no need to make the case against it.

The truth is more that neither Leavers nor Remainers do much listening to each other. There is very obvious contempt for the other, and a gulf so large that it's un-bridgeable (at least on the extremes). I suspect however that the UK will leave the EU but maintain close links. As you know, I've always felt that May's deal will pass parliament at the last minute provided the EU can fashion something on the backstop for May to take home. If they won't give her anything at all - then that would be a mistake.

Even so, Brexit strikes at the heart of the current globalist system. It's a rebellion against gaping inequality, against cosmopolitan wealth and small town decay. It was a vote that empowered and energised those who have done badly out of globalism - the white working class who have been subject to years of being called racists, who have no prospects thanks to endless supplies of cheap labor, whose towns have changed without their consent. For many Leavers, the feeling of being ignored, forgotten, fed scraps was lifted. Brexit brought hope when before there was none. Leavers want change, and often on the basis that nothing can be worse than the destruction and hopelessness of the status quo.

So yes, a dialogue of the deaf. I honestly don't know any Leavers who have changed their minds under the barrage of scare stories. They discount them as scare-mongering (which many of the stories blatantly are). Indeed, i know more Remainers who accept that the UK must now leave and just want to get on with it.
 
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