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[W:#7426]How will Brexit go?***W:46]***

How will Brexit go?

  • The EU will continue to grow but will change to address the feelings that drove Brexit.

    Votes: 13 11.4%

  • The EU will continue to grow but will not address the feelings that drove Brexit

    Votes: 16 14.0%

  • The EU will see more countries pulling out after we leave.

    Votes: 20 17.5%

  • The UK will break up as a consequence of Brexit.

    Votes: 26 22.8%

  • The UK will still hold after all is done and dusted.

    Votes: 20 17.5%

  • There’ll be a second Brexit related referendum. (Independence / Brexit etc)

    Votes: 22 19.3%

  • We’ll end up with soft Brexit and end up staying within EFTA.

    Votes: 18 15.8%

  • We'll have a Hard Brexit, a disaster ending with WTO rules.

    Votes: 29 25.4%

  • We'll have a Hard Brexit which will be a success, even under WTO rules

    Votes: 18 15.8%
  • Total voters
    114
That's Dominic Rash on the left? Not a clue who the other guy is!

Just been reading this article, summary at end on how the Gibraltar negotiations are going
https://www.elperiodico.com/es/inte...ontra-may-exigen-avances-para-octubre-7045286

450 years of manoeuvring have to be wrapped up in a month, basically. Sanchez is optimistic but notes there are complications, Gibraltar's tax haven status not the least of them.

I'm not quite sure what the implications of Gibraltar being excluded from any transitional deal are, but it sounds good for a new West Berlin, except oops the British aircraft won't have international clearance to fly supplies in.
 
Sven Karma said:
That's Dominic Rash on the left? Not a clue who the other guy is!

Just been reading this article, summary at end on how the Gibraltar negotiations are going
https://www.elperiodico.com/es/inte...ontra-may-exigen-avances-para-octubre-7045286

450 years of manoeuvring have to be wrapped up in a month, basically. Sanchez is optimistic but notes there are complications, Gibraltar's tax haven status not the least of them.

I'm not quite sure what the implications of Gibraltar being excluded from any transitional deal are, but it sounds good for a new West Berlin, except oops the British aircraft won't have international clearance to fly supplies in.
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:lol:

Maybe the tunnels can be extended, after all Berlin had a lot of them.
 
The flipping Gibraltar monkeys would do better than the UK government, a friend was there a couple of years ago and thought them smart and well organised.

Michael Gove's innovative suggestion that any future PM could renegotiate stuff can't have helped May any with the EU in Salzburg either as it does rather undermine the whole 'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed' doctrine.

btw is anyone on here connected with the music biz? I have a song called 'A Very Merry Brexit Christmas' that's good to go.
 
This farce is just becoming worse and like under the Brexit referendum, the British media are partly to blame. The EU'S stance had been known from day one and has not changed... and the UK media is often shocked over the EU stance and of course many blame the EU for the impasse...

I feel sorry for May.. she is in a bad situation nor really of her own making..of course she ain't helping herself by not dealing with internal party problems that are the root cause of the whole situation.

She should have from the start forced out the hardcore Brexit people from the party.. granted this should have happened decades ago.

The EU like the Labour party just have wait it all out and let the UK collapse under the tories. In the mean time jobs will flow into the EU and Labour will become the dominate party in the UK purely based on the disintegration of the Tory party into 2 or more right wing parties...

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PeteEU said:
This farce is just becoming worse and like under the Brexit referendum, the British media are partly to blame. The EU'S stance had been known from day one and has not changed... and the UK media is often shocked over the EU stance and of course many blame the EU for the impasse...
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Exactly. A bunch of morons still think the EU will come crashing down once we have left and TV / radio discussion programs still have people coming on saying "it's the EU's fault"

You can't leave a club and expect to go back for free tennis (unless you own the ground the club is on)

PeteEU said:
I feel sorry for May..
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I don't, if she has any brains she knew what the EU rules were when she put herself up at the start. We should have forced the prime Brexiteers to go for the leadership. It's very telling that the slime-ball Jacob Rees-Mogg is still there rubbishing everything offered but he's not putting himself up to lead the country.

Personally I think we have to go through with the pain of what's going to happen to learn the lesson.
 
May just kicked the can down the road.. demanding that the EU come with a new propsal... why should they? The UK knows the conditions set down by the EU and they ain't going to change.....

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May is either completely stupid (as has been suggested) or utterly dishonest.

If she has indeed not heard the message that the EU was giving out from the start, she's also intentionally deaf. If she has heard it and (contrary to possible stupidity) actually understood it these last years, she's now lying in her teeth. In the latter case that would make her no better than the likes of Johnson and Rees.

I recall her being similarly dim (or pretending to be) as Home Secretary over deporting of Othman (Abu Qatada), when she seemed consistently incapable of understanding what the ECHR was saying on the matter at every step of the way.

I've never felt sorry for her ever, least of all now. This mess is as much of her making as it is of her Tory enemies, merely the methods and motivations differ.

She'll go into history as a political failure that will even outshadow Blair and Cameron.
 
Chagos said:
May is either completely stupid (as has been suggested) or utterly dishonest.

If she has indeed not heard the message that the EU was giving out from the start, she's also intentionally deaf. If she has heard it and (contrary to possible stupidity) actually understood it these last years, she's now lying in her teeth. In the latter case that would make her no better than the likes of Johnson and Rees.

I recall her being similarly dim (or pretending to be) as Home Secretary over deporting of Othman (Abu Qatada), when she seemed consistently incapable of understanding what the ECHR was saying on the matter at every step of the way.

I've never felt sorry for her ever, least of all now. This mess is as much of her making as it is of her Tory enemies, merely the methods and motivations differ.

She'll go into history as a political failure that will even outshadow Blair and Cameron.
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Nah, Cameron owns this clusterf*ck and let us never forget it. He's like the Captain of that cruise ship which capsized off the Italian island, retired to his cabin to party; she's just the muppet who happens to be at the helm as the ship goes down. Blair and Cameron's political falls from grace are like e.g. Newcastle and Aston Villa getting relegated, newsworthy. Theresa May is like Reading going down; the question is, how did they ever get promoted in the first place?

She's certainly intellectually dishonest. Her weird pre-referendum position of wanting to remain in the EU but leave the European Court of Justice (Abu Qatada) showed that. And she also may be the first PM we've had in a long time who really is 'Conservative and Unionist' rather than just 'Conservative'.

The anecdotal evidence I have for her stupidity is a conversation I had with a friend of my mum's whose Professor husband has a friend who briefly dated her at Oxford, the exact phrase used was 'very stupid'. We already know she studied geography :heh: And Brexit policy so far (on all sides of the Tory Party) has pretty faithfully followed a strategy of Oxford essay 'window-dressing', the amazing yet unspecified 'technological solutions' to the Irish border e.g.
 
I think it also comes down to not admitting failure or fault. The failed deportations is a good example..both Labour and Tory governments failed because the refused to follow the law and when caught they blamed Europe.

In Brexit it is worse because bone heads on the right refuse to change course because it will make them look weak.

Remember when you were a kid and you did something stupid because your friend did it? I remember my father asking me if my friend jumped of a cliff would you follow him... a normal person would say of course not, but in Tory world many are fully willing to commit mass sucide just to avoid admitting they were wrong.

They are doing it right now by attaking the EU for not coming up with an alternative solution to a problem that the accusers created.

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Sven Karma said:
Nah, Cameron owns this clusterf*ck and let us never forget it.
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Oh, no worries, I'm not likely to
~.................................Theresa May is like Reading going down; the question is, how did they ever get promoted in the first place?
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Thing is that by the time this mess has reached its conclusion by peaking in a no-deal exit, most will have forgotten Newcastle and Villa. Memories are short and usually the past is often overlaid by the most recent.
She's certainly intellectually dishonest. Her weird pre-referendum position of wanting to remain in the EU but leave the European Court of Justice (Abu Qatada) showed that. And she also may be the first PM we've had in a long time who really is 'Conservative and Unionist' rather than just 'Conservative'.

The anecdotal evidence I have for her stupidity is a conversation I had with a friend of my mum's whose Professor husband has a friend who briefly dated her at Oxford, the exact phrase used was 'very stupid'. We already know she studied geography :heh: And Brexit policy so far (on all sides of the Tory Party) has pretty faithfully followed a strategy of Oxford essay 'window-dressing', the amazing yet unspecified 'technological solutions' to the Irish border e.g.
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I'll take these two points as confirmation of her being both a liar and a dumbtwit.
 
Meanwhile, with all the posturings going on over how the EU has been disrespectful (and should now come up with counter-proposals):roll:, speculations/rumours over contingency plans being laid for snap election in November, should the stalemate continue, have been refuted by the Brexit-Raab.
“It’s not going to happen,” he said on Sunday.
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Which increases the likelihood of precisely THAT being in the offing.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/23/dominic-raab-rules-out-snap-general-election-to-save-mays-brexit-plan

The article also states
EU officials are understood to be working on a counter-proposal to Chequers, which is likely to appear in early October – after the Conservative party conference and a week before a make-or-break summit in Brussels.
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and where it's left to speculation who is actually understanding this, one wonders whether said EU officials actually belong in the camp of "understanders".

One can reasonably state that the EU does not want the divorce to be nasty, but the concept of the one having filed for it asking that the one who didn't should now propose how it should go, is somewhat surreal.
 
I can see the counter proposal on freedom of movement....

1) EU citzen can come to the UK for up to 3 months before having to register.
2) The UK can have a quota on how many EU citzen can enter the country for more than 3 months.. aka to live and work. This number shall be the current average per month with an extra 0 on...

Which of these 2 is not new? [emoji38]



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PeteEU said:
I can see the counter proposal on freedom of movement....

1) EU citzen can come to the UK for up to 3 months before having to register.
2) The UK can have a quota on how many EU citzen can enter the country for more than 3 months.. aka to live and work. This number shall be the current average per month with an extra 0 on...

Which of these 2 is not new? [emoji38]



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:mrgreen:
 
PeteEU said:
~ In Brexit it is worse because bone heads on the right refuse to change course because it will make them look weak ~
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I'm prepared to look at the cynical side of this. Rees-Mogg has shifted his business base into the EU just like Dyson (darling of the ordinary Brexiteer on the street) closed all UK production and moved his manufacture to Malaysia. A hard exit will help some of these people make more money but it won't help the ordinary Brexit-supporting man in the street financially.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
I'm prepared to look at the cynical side of this. Rees-Mogg has shifted his business base into the EU just like Dyson (darling of the ordinary Brexiteer on the street) closed all UK production and moved his manufacture to Malaysia. A hard exit will help some of these people make more money but it won't help the ordinary Brexit-supporting man in the street financially.
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For those 2 people..and quite a few people on the Brexit side.. it is about money and power. Dyson and the JCB guy it is about money. Both have had issues with EU regulations and the JCB guy was busted for unfair competition. Both are against the EU and both have been shifting jobs overseas and are hypocrites. Rees-Mogg and his rich Brexit buddies all are exploiting the chaos Brexit is creating to the max and the whole idea was to do this. Of course the media does not accuse them of this.. even though the evidence is there.
 
Chagos said:
Twould be a shame if the Queen doesn't make it past 95, wouldn't it?
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And newly crowned King Charles calls Brexit a 'monstrous carbuncle'.
 
Or at his wife.
 
Manc Skipper said:
His statement is of Trump-like crassness. I never believed I'd see the day when a British Member of Parliament, let alone the Foreign Secretary, would borrow from the manifesto of the Nazi mass child-murderer Breivik.
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Well in the hapless quest for EU friends Jeremy's already dropped his trousers for Viktor Orban so anything goes in the race to the bottom for Daily Telegraph headlines during the Tory party conference.
 
Final goverment papers on no deal Brexit are out. They all pretty much confirm what Pro EU people have been saying since day one.

They even had a drill turning a major highway into a parking lot for lorries because they fear massive delays at UK ports....

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...........and UK Netflix accounts may not work on the continent (for Brits travelling there).

Now there's the real tragedy.
 
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